Mr Ridiculous

[cajen2]

Ok, I'm new to the forum and, though I've had a lifelong interest in astronomy, I've never bought any serious equipment.

I've spent months researching whatever I can and have a few problems:

1. I have a severe shortage of storage space (and money!), which rules out any of the larger-aperture scopes

2. My garden' s overlooked by a couple of yellow street lights (I realise that I can buy LP filters but have no idea how effective they are) 

3. I need a good all-round scope as I'd like to view planets, double stars and at least the brighter DSOs.

Now the ridiculous part: I've narrowed down my prospective scopes into two very different bits of kit. The first is the Skywatcher 150 flextube dob and the second the 6" Schmidt-Cassegrain Starsense Explorer.

I realise they are vastly different in price but both have the virtue of  fairly small overall dimensions for the max aperture.

Any opinions or do you think I'm just crazy? 😛

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by cajen2

[cajen2]

I like the dob for its simplicity and the SC for its manual go-to ability without messing about with wi-fi, exact location/time settings, etc.

I'd eventually buy a Baader Hyperion zoom / Barlow combo for the dob, as I've heard good things about them.

Edited November 5, 2021 by cajen2

[Marvin Jenkins]

Hello and welcome. Dob for me every time. First time out keep it simple.

Marvin

[cajen2]

Thanks for that, Marvin. That was my first  instinct too, but I thought the Starsense system would be useful in an area with poor viewing.

I haven't much knowledge of SC designs - any good?

Edited November 5, 2021 by cajen2

[Marvin Jenkins]

Sorry I don’t have any experience of that setup, but just the fact of the lower cost and simple design and ease of use of the newt at the beginning stage of your path just seems to shout Dob.

I started with a newt on an eq mount and wished I had started with a Dob and larger aperture for the same cost.

Marv

[cajen2]

Yes, indeed, Marvin, I'm with you all the way on simplicity and max aperture per £.

I just have this awful feeling that, with all my light pollution, I won't be able to spot visually what I want to observe, or track without slow-mo controls, thus the Starsense setup.

Is a Schmidt-Cassegrain design optically as good or better than a newt, or does it just depend on which one?

[PeterCPC]

Hello and welcome. I would go with hte Starsense.

[barbulo]

Welcome to SGL. I wish you lots of fun regardless the equipment you choose. 

[cajen2]

2 hours ago, PeterCPC said:

Hello and welcome. I would go with hte Starsense.

Thanks Peter....I knew I'd get different opinions! 😄

 

2 hours ago, barbulo said:

Welcome to SGL. I wish you lots of fun regardless the equipment you choose. 

Thanks a lot, Barbulo. I think I'd be happy with either scope.

Any more opinions, especially about cadioptric scopes?

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by cajen2

[banjaxed]

Hi and welcome to SGL, my first scope was an 8” Dob which I still use and would never part with it.

[cajen2]

Thanks for the welcome.

I just don't want to make an expensive mistake! I've made enough of those in my life.....😳

[Alan White]

Welcome to SGL and Visual Astronomy as well, its all very rewarding.

I believe in the KISS principal at all times, too much complication = upset and dissapointment.
So my vote is the all manual dobson you have listed.

The Dobson will provide a wider field of view and be easier to look at the brighter and larger DSO you say you would like to view.
It will also cool down for use quicker (all lenses and mirrors perform well when at ambient temperature). Being an open tube it cools faster.

The SCT, is a longer focal length and an enclosed tube design, it will give a narrower field of view, take longer to cool than the open tube newtonian.
It will also have some electronics, that may distract you at this stage and be more challenging as a begginer to use, it depends on how well you get on with electronics.

Either scope will bring you pleasure, but the dobson you list is fairy compact, will give super views and should serve you well.
Have you considered the non flex-tube version, its possibly even more forgiving and has a decent focuser compared to the one on the small flextube?

Good luck and ask more questions as you go.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Alan White

[Priesters]

Good advice from everyone.  Only thing I’d add is that the Star Sense SCT will have a front corrector plate and so the day after you first get to use it in anger you will be buying a dew shield and then probably a dew controller with a dew heater band which is additional cost you might not have factored in.  The reason is that the corrector plate will fog up very quickly as soon as there is any moisture in the atmosphere, which in my experience, happens a lot.  For the record I’m an SCT owner and I love it but thought you should know about this.  DOBs are not immune to dew either but nowhere near as susceptible as SCTs.

[Starwatcher2001]

Welcome aboard SGL. Good to have you with us.

I have both Dob and SCT, as many here do. My gut says Dob for all the reasons above. It's very liberating to just drag it out, let it cool down and get straight on with observing. Learning to star-hop and seek out the treasures is fun on its own.  But if your main observing will be done from light polluted skies, it can be difficult and frustrating to star-hop if you can't see many stars with the naked eye. So after years of using a dob, and worsening skies, I now prefer the SCT now as I actually do a lot more actual observing of objects in an evening.

Do you know the "Bortle rating" of your location?  If not, have a look here and click on the map where you'll be observing from and that will give you the stats for how polluted your skies are. It's not perfectly accurate but can be a good guide. I'd also recommend going outside on a clear night and seeing how many stars you can see in Ursa Major and Ursa Minor.

https://lightpollutionmap.info

I live in a Bortle 7/8 and can star-hop but it can be difficult at times, especially when neighbours lights are on. Any worse than this and I'd definitely use a goto.

[wookie1965]

A warm welcome to SGL 

[Tiny Clanger]

11 hours ago, cajen2 said:

Ok, I'm new to the forum and, though I've had a lifelong interest in astronomy, I've never bought any serious equipment.

I've spent months researching whatever I can and have a few problems:

1. I have a severe shortage of storage space (and money!), which rules out any of the larger-aperture scopes

2. My garden' s overlooked by a couple of yellow street lights (I realise that I can buy LP filters but have no idea how effective they are) 

3. I need a good all-round scope as I'd like to view planets, double stars and at least the brighter DSOs.

Now the ridiculous part: I've narrowed down my prospective scopes into two very different bits of kit. The first is the Skywatcher 150 flextube dob and the second the 6" Schmidt-Cassegrain Starsense Explorer.

I realise they are vastly different in price but both have the virtue of  fairly small overall dimensions for the max aperture.

Any opinions or do you think I'm just crazy? 😛

 

It will be no surprise to anyone who reads the beginner kit threads on here that I'm going to chip in with great enthusiasm for the heritage 150. It ticked all the boxes for me as a first 'scope : price, aperture, ease of storage, I could not find anything to compare with it.

If you've read around on here about the heritage, you'll know all about making a light shroud and doing the easy plumber's tape mod on the focuser, you will also want to think about a good stable stand, base or small table to raise the little dob to a workable height.

Get the dob, and spend some of the money saved on a copy of 'Turn Left at Orion' an 8mm BST starguider eyepiece (to replace the horrible stock 10mm skywatcher bundles with every reasonably priced 'scope, the bundled 25mm is OK though) and a 32mm plossl to use as a wide view and 'finding stuff' eyepiece.

Go on, get buying before the xmas gift rush snaps up all the good, well priced stuff ...

Heather

[cajen2]

Thanks very much for everyone's good wishes and helpful advice.

Alan: I had considered the solid-tube version, especially because of the focuser and the longer focal length (for planet viewing), but I'd find it very hard to store:as I said, I have very little space. I also hadn't considered the cooling period as I know nothing about SCTs.

Priesters: thanks for that - I also hadn't thought about the dewing problem.

Heather: I HAD pondered the focuser mod and light shroud, not to mention the "TLAO" thanks again. As I said, if I get the mod, I might well go for a Baader Hyperion zoom with the money I save. The Plossl 32mm is a great suggestion as it'll help me in searching for stuff. Any recommendations?

SWatcher: the Bortle rating here is 5, but I live on an estate with hundreds of sodium street lamps.....Ursa Major is just about visible with a lot of squinting!

I think after a lot of considering pros and cons, I'll plump for the flextube Dob 6". I assume it will give good performance if later I get some tasty EPs?

Edited November 5, 2021 by cajen2

[Stu1smartcookie]

Hi And welcome to SGL 

The starsense is a great bit of kit , allowing you to find your way in the night sky ... its new(ish ) tech and to be honest is a great start into astronomy 

Nothing wrong with the Heritage Dob though ... the thing that puzzles me is the price difference between the two . If i am right ( seldom) then the 6" cass and the starsense mount combination runs to nearly £700 and the heritage is around £250 !! thats a monumental difference . In fact you could pick up the Heritage GTi for less than 400 pounds and then get a 3/8" steel tripod to mount it on for another £130 . You would have a fully computerised mount . 

Just my thoughts . 

Stu 

 

[cajen2]

23 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Hi And welcome to SGL 

The starsense is a great bit of kit , allowing you to find your way in the night sky ... its new(ish ) tech and to be honest is a great start into astronomy 

Nothing wrong with the Heritage Dob though ... the thing that puzzles me is the price difference between the two . If i am right ( seldom) then the 6" cass and the starsense mount combination runs to nearly £700 and the heritage is around £250 !! thats a monumental difference . In fact you could pick up the Heritage GTi for less than 400 pounds and then get a 3/8" steel tripod to mount it on for another £130 . You would have a fully computerised mount . 

Just my thoughts . 

Stu 

 

Thanks for that, Stu. Yes, I had thought of the GTI version, but it's one of those that runs on wi-fi, no doubt with a need for exact location, time etc. Nobody ever believes me, but wi-fi and I just don't get on. I've had endless trouble in my other hobby (reefkeeping) with wi-fi-controlled lights, for example. The Starsense system doesn't even need a wi-fi or mobile signal to work, which is why it attracted me.

[cajen2]

The price difference is huge, as you say, but I'll need to spend significantly on EPs and a Barlow with the dob, too.

Edited November 5, 2021 by cajen2

[Tiny Clanger]

12 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

Heather: I HAD pondered the focuser mod and light shroud, not to mention the "TLAO" thanks again. As I said, if I get the mod, I might well go for a Baader Hyperion zoom with the money I save. The Plossl 32mm is a great suggestion as it'll help me in searching for stuff. Any recommendations?

SWatcher: the Bortle rating here is 5, but I live on an estate with hundreds of sodium street lamps.....Ursa Major is just about visible with a lot of squinting!

I think after a lot of considering pros and cons, I'll plump for the flextube Dob 6". I assume it will give good performance if later I get some tasty EPs?

I'm a fan of individual eyepieces, and find I like to see a wide field , so zooms are not my thing , but plenty of people like them.

The heritage dob , as a function of it's focal length (750mm) and aperture (150mm, divide the FL by this) has a focal ratio of f5. In practise this isn't terribly important except when you are looking for a low magnification, wide field eyepiece. Then bargain eyepieces can't cope  very well, for instance I don't like my 24mm BST starguider (60 degree field of view) in the f5 heritage, but find it fine in my f11(ish) mak . So the little heritage would love some 'tasty' eyepieces (I'd like the Baader Morpheus 17.5mm thanks, a 72 deg, FOV for around the same money as the entire heritage dob ...) but the 'scope is fine with narrower field, mercifully cheaper e.p.s like the 32mm plossls ( plossl isn't a brand, but a lens arrangement) which have a FOV of around 50 degrees .

It's all very confusing to start off with, but essentially in general cheaper eps give smaller FOV, while at the same magnification bigger more expensive eps are like looking through a bigger window , which a lot of people like, including me (unfortunately for the bank balance)

Anyway, I found I actually preferred my skywatcher 'super' 32mm plossl (about £35 new) to my BST 24mm (about £50  new) in the heritage 150 , if you order your heritage 150 from flo it would be cost effective in terms of delivery to get at the same time one of their in stock 32mm plossls which look identical to the skywatcher ones https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astro-essentials-eyepieces/astro-essentials-super-plossl-eyepiece.html  and are in stock and only £29. It's not a fabulous eyepiece , obviously, but it does the job.

Heather

[Dave scutt]

Hi and welcome to SGL. 

+1 for the dob

[cajen2]

38 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

I'm a fan of individual eyepieces, and find I like to see a wide field , so zooms are not my thing , but plenty of people like them.

The heritage dob , as a function of it's focal length (750mm) and aperture (150mm, divide the FL by this) has a focal ratio of f5. In practise this isn't terribly important except when you are looking for a low magnification, wide field eyepiece. Then bargain eyepieces can't cope  very well, for instance I don't like my 24mm BST starguider (60 degree field of view) in the f5 heritage, but find it fine in my f11(ish) mak . So the little heritage would love some 'tasty' eyepieces (I'd like the Baader Morpheus 17.5mm thanks, a 72 deg, FOV for around the same money as the entire heritage dob ...) but the 'scope is fine with narrower field, mercifully cheaper e.p.s like the 32mm plossls ( plossl isn't a brand, but a lens arrangement) which have a FOV of around 50 degrees .

It's all very confusing to start off with, but essentially in general cheaper eps give smaller FOV, while at the same magnification bigger more expensive eps are like looking through a bigger window , which a lot of people like, including me (unfortunately for the bank balance)

Anyway, I found I actually preferred my skywatcher 'super' 32mm plossl (about £35 new) to my BST 24mm (about £50  new) in the heritage 150 , if you order your heritage 150 from flo it would be cost effective in terms of delivery to get at the same time one of their in stock 32mm plossls which look identical to the skywatcher ones https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astro-essentials-eyepieces/astro-essentials-super-plossl-eyepiece.html  and are in stock and only £29. It's not a fabulous eyepiece , obviously, but it does the job.

Heather

Great advice, Heather, thanks once more. I like the idea of a decent-brand zoom at least for now, as it'll give me some idea of what focal-length EPs will suit me and the dob, plus of course the convenience. Have you had any experience of the Baader wide-field Hyperion aspheric? Bit cheaper than the Morpheus...

Edited November 5, 2021 by cajen2

[cajen2]

22 minutes ago, Dave scutt said:

Hi and welcome to SGL. 

+1 for the dob

Cheers, Dave. Think I'm going to pull the trigger on the dob and zoom...

[cajen2]

48 minutes ago, Dave scutt said:

Hi and welcome to SGL. 

+1 for the dob

Cheers, Dave. Think I'm going to pull the trigger on the dob and zoom...

And of course I'll be using Auntie Flo....