Disaster - USB ports blown - any thoughts

[teoria_del_big_bang]

What a disaster this evening - I really feel like packing it in as I can't keep piling money into this anymore.

What happened is that I bough myself a new rotator and fitted it without issues today. Then to test it and I did not have a spare USB port on my Pegasus PPBA so added a 4 port powered hub but without thinking connected the 5V power to 12V on the PPBA. 

It appears to have fried all USB ports, with the exception (I think) of the main CCD camera.

I can no longer connect to my Senso Sesto focuser, Mini ZWO guidecam, Pegasus PPBA, or the new DSD rotator. All in all over £1K of equipment.
Not even 100% sure about the QHY268M CCD, It seems to connect and I can seem to take an image but it is all white even with endcap on scope, that may just be the autostretch so may be okay, filterwheel seems to work.

Needless to say with weather being crap for months and this I really am frustrated, with myself for doing such a stupid thing as much as anything.

Steve

Edited August 23, 2021 by teoria_del_big_bang

[wornish]

Blimey I would not be happy if that happened to me.   Only suggestion is disconnect everything and try each piece of kit separately to see if it works.

 

[steppenwolf]

Really sorry to hear about this - a moment’s lack of concentration is something we have all suffered from at some time🙁 The white image from your camera might well not be indicative of a fault but simply auto - levels in your image processing/viewing software as, for example, MaxIm DL can do this.

Do you have house contents insurance with ‘accident’ cover? If so, you may be able to make a claim on your insurance although it could be a bit of a fight.

Good luck

[Ags]

Awful to hear. I hope you can salvage some of the kit. 

[geeklee]

That's terrible to hear Steve. As mentioned above, hopefully each component still works when used in isolation and maybe "only" the powered hub and/or the PPBA that has an issue?

Hopefully fresh eyes and brain this morning reveals better news. 

[badhex]

Hello @teoria_del_big_bang sorry to hear of your issues. To clarify, are you saying that the USB hub is fried or that it seems to have fried everything that was already connected as well?

As mentioned above, have you tried each individual device without the USB hub in the chain? 

[badhex]

Worth mentioning that the USB standard suggests that all ports should have overcurrent protection built in. Although it is part of the standard, it does depend somewhat on the manufacturer, as not all manufacturers will follow said standards to save money. Might be worth posting your model of USB hub here too, potentially we could find out if it contains overcurrent protection. 

[teoria_del_big_bang]

Yes I did this until late last night as I couldn't sleep knowing what did and didn't work.

I have plugged everything in individually to my laptop and tried each unit on its own with the windows utility provided by the manufacturer.
The Pegasus PPBA, the Sesto Senso focuser, the ZWO ASI 290MM Mini camera, my new DSD rotator all seemed to have suffered and none are recognised on USB either by the utility or if I look in Device Manager on Windows so assume its damaged the USB ports somehow.

Now I am sure they maybe repairable given time, but not sure of the cost effectiveness of sending them off and cost of repair compared to replacing them.

The insurance I did not think about and maybe worth a call I do have accidental cover I think.

Steve

[wornish]

Are you certain the USB ports on the laptop are working?

Edited August 21, 2021 by wornish

[Stuart1971]

This is really sad, and I feel for you…but I have a question

You say you bought a powered hub, but connected the hub to one of the 12v powers ports on the Pegasus, so I get that you have damaged all items connected to the new USB hub, (should have been 5v supply) BUT that should not have affected the Pegasus as that would have the correct separate 12v power supply to it, so why is that damaged…?? It should only be the items connected to the new USB hub…🤔🤔

Edited August 21, 2021 by Stuart1971

[badhex]

I am surprised that the PPBA has issues as I assume it was upstream (ie providing power) to the hub, so in theory only downstream devices should be affected. Silly question, but was the laptop also connected to the USB hub at the time? Given that *nothing* seems to work, could be that the actual laptop USB port is damaged?

Perhaps you could try a different USB device that you know definitely works and which was not part of the kit in e.g. a USB thumb drive or similar in the same laptop USB port you have been using. Might be worth testing with something you're not too worried about just in case! 

If the laptop has more than one port (which I guess it does) or even better if you have a other laptop, I would certainly try your devices there as well. 

[badhex]

4 minutes ago, wornish said:

Are you certain the USB ports on the laptop are working?

 

3 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

This is really sad, and I feel for you…but I have a question

You say you bought a powered hub, but connected the hub to one of the 12v powers ports on the Pegasus, so I get that you have damaged all items connected to the new USB hub, (should have been 5v supply) BUT that should not have affected the Pegasus as that would have the correct separate 12v power supply to it, so why is that damaged…?? It should only be the items connected to the new USB hub…🤔🤔

Haha both questions came while I was still writing my reply 🙂

[Stuart1971]

2 minutes ago, badhex said:

I am surprised that the PPBA has issues as I assume it was upstream (ie providing power) to the hub, so in theory only downstream devices should be affected. Silly question, but was the laptop also connected to the USB hub at the time? Given that *nothing* seems to work, could be that the actual laptop USB port is damaged?

Perhaps you could try a different USB device that you know definitely works and which was not part of the kit in e.g. a USB thumb drive or similar in the same laptop USB port you have been using. Might be worth testing with something you're not too worried about just in case! 

If the laptop has more than one port (which I guess it does) or even better if you have a other laptop, I would certainly try your devices there as well. 

Also the Pegasus PPBA has over current protection built in, so should not have suffered from anything here….🤔🤔

[Knighty2112]

That’s awful. Hope things are not as bad as you first thought. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

[Tomatobro]

Its not the current but the voltage which has done the damage. Anything that is designed for 5 volts but had more that 7.5 volts is dead.

Internally it will depend on the design of the circuit and components used as to what has failed.

I just glanced through my insurance cover and this kind of incident looks to be covered under "accidental damage" but has a value cap on the amount that can be claimed.

[Paul M]

Devastating

Some powered hubs have no isolation between the inbound and outbound USB 5v lines. So putting 12v on one of the outlet ports, or all of them as happened here, can back feed 12v onto the incoming port. That would then go down the pipe to the PPBA and would likely suffer whatever fate the other ports suffered.

Over current protection is intended to prevent a USB device overloading the port and possibly short circuit protection too.

It's doesn't necessarily follow that over voltage will cause over current and would likely be too slow to be helpful anyway.

 

 

 

 

[malc-c]

Sorry to hear what's happened, but it does suggest a flaw in the design of either the hub, or the PPBA as normally the plugs between 12v and 5v are different, having either a larger centre pin, or different diameter barrels to prevent such a mishap.

If 12v has been applied to a 5v USB power line then this will have fried the internal devices that handle the USB  communications, be that something like an FTDI chip in the case of an  EQDIR cable for the mount, to any processor with a built in USB port if there is a direct connection to it.  A lot of devices do have over current protection, but sadly not always over voltage.

Making a claim on your insurance policy if it has accidental damage could be a possible way to have the components replaced, but I would try and seek advice on the impact doing so has on future premiums.

I can understand how disheartening this can be, and sharing the experience on the forum can at least help make others aware of this possible issue.

[Stuart1971]

22 minutes ago, Paul M said:

Devastating

Some powered hubs have no isolation between the inbound and outbound USB 5v lines. So putting 12v on one of the outlet ports, or all of them as happened here, can back feed 12v onto the incoming port. That would then go down the pipe to the PPBA and would likely suffer whatever fate the other ports suffered.

Over current protection is intended to prevent a USB device overloading the port and possibly short circuit protection too.

It's doesn't necessarily follow that over voltage will cause over current and would likely be too slow to be helpful anyway.

 

 

 

 

Still not an issue with the PPBA as he would have only back fed 12v into a 12v power port….so whichever way you look at it the Pegasus PPBA should not have got damaged….it should only be items connected upstream of the PPBA that should be damaged….🤔

Edited August 21, 2021 by Stuart1971

[M40]

This is not a good thing to read, hopefully the insurance will cover part of it at least. I must admit I have had concerns over usb hubs and the various connected devices. I have noticed that the usb hub must be powered off last or the last device to be powered feeds all connected and I have been more than a little concerned about burning things out. All the best.

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, Stuart1971 said:

Duplicate post

Edited August 21, 2021 by Stuart1971

[teoria_del_big_bang]

43 minutes ago, wornish said:

Are you certain the USB ports on the laptop are working?

Yes, laptop was just connected remotely so are okay, but after the incident I have plugged all units into laptop directly to test them and only main CCD was working.
But it does raise another point that I have not yet tested the RPi ports that were connected, small issue if that needs replacing though, but still looks like the others are damaged and sent messages off to manufacturers to see if repair is viable.

Steve
 

[Stuart1971]

1 minute ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Yes, laptop was just connected remotely so are okay, but after the incident I have plugged all units into laptop directly to test them and only main CCD was working.
But it does raise another point that I have not yet tested the RPi ports that were connected, small issue if that needs replacing though, but still looks like the others are damaged and sent messages off to manufacturers to see if repair is viable.

Steve
 

Have you read above, about the PPBA, as that should not be damaged, it should only be items plugged in upstream of that…🤔🤔

[Stuart1971]

5 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Yes, laptop was just connected remotely so are okay, but after the incident I have plugged all units into laptop directly to test them and only main CCD was working.
But it does raise another point that I have not yet tested the RPi ports that were connected, small issue if that needs replacing though, but still looks like the others are damaged and sent messages off to manufacturers to see if repair is viable.

Steve
 

Also the PPBA have internal electronic fuses, so may just need re setting if blown, but really can’t see why that would be damaged….🤔

Edited August 21, 2021 by Stuart1971

[badhex]

35 minutes ago, Tomatobro said:

Its not the current but the voltage which has done the damage. Anything that is designed for 5 volts but had more that 7.5 volts is dead.

Internally it will depend on the design of the circuit and components used as to what has failed

Apologies, you are correct, I was not thinking straight. Depends as you say if the USB has overvoltage which is much less likely, but still possible. 

30 minutes ago, Paul M said:

Some powered hubs have no isolation between the inbound and outbound USB 5v lines. So putting 12v on one of the outlet ports, or all of them as happened here, can back feed 12v onto the incoming port. That would then go down the pipe to the PPBA and would likely suffer whatever fate the other ports suffered.

This is what I'm thinking regarding the laptop port possibly being damaged. Given that the PPBA was however providing power, I'm not sure how this could have caused the damage unless it was connected by USB as well? 

[badhex]

Sorry for my duplicate questions, again various posts covering the same questions happened whilst I was writing 🙂