Why settle with reflector scopes when refractors have no collimation?

[jetstream]

4 hours ago, faulksy said:

it was pig gerry🤣

I could see that happening Mike, most likely borne out of frustration from getting sub par views in general due to LP conditions where he observed- with anything.

[Deadlake]

14 hours ago, jetstream said:

My offer is still open Mike!

You can view through my TSA 120 and then immediately switch to my 15" and tell me what you see!

I might humbly suggest that if the TSA120 shows more an eye exam might be required!!

But Gerry what are going to see more with your 24" Dob monster or a C9.25 with a NV eyepiece? 😀

I know which one will show more and is more movable and maybe costs less.... 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Deadlake

[jetstream]

19 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

But Gerry what are going to see more with your 24" Dob monster or a C9.25 with a NV eyepiece? 😀

I know which one will show more and is more movable and maybe costs less.... 

Once healed up and not "draggin a leg"  I can wheel the 24" out in 2 minutes, collimate and view...

How about this?

I'll challenge you to a NV duel- me with the 24" f4.1 -you with the C9.25 and see who gets viewing quicker and sees more!

[Deadlake]

3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Once healed up and not "draggin a leg"  I can wheel the 24" out in 2 minutes, collimate and view...

How about this?

I'll challenge you to a NV duel- me with the 24" f4.1 -you with the C9.25 and see who gets viewing quicker and sees more!

A 9.25" mirror versus a 24" one, which one will cool down fastest??? Not that you need that so much for DSO's... 😀

Edited April 30, 2021 by Deadlake

[jetstream]

11 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

A 9.25" mirror versus a 24" one, which one will cool down fastest???

Does it matter on DSO?😀

 

[Deadlake]

3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Does it matter on DSO?😀

 

Using an NV EP is not so sensitive to a mirror acclimating.  

By the way whereas the refractor guys like to discuss which brand is best don't the Dob owners like to discuss which mirror is best, i.e. I've got a Lockwood Optics mirror???😄 

Same as having a light green telescope.....

[jetstream]

1 minute ago, Deadlake said:

By the way whereas the refractor guys like to discuss which brand is best don't the Dob owners like to discuss which mirror is best, i.e. I've got a Lockwood Optics mirror???😄 

Reflector owners are mesmerized by the view to the point that they kinda forget who made the mirror😀

On the other hand there is much time for debate among refractor owners IMHO

[Deadlake]

13 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Reflector owners are mesmerized by the view to the point that they kinda forget who made the mirror😀

On the other hand there is much time for debate among refractor owners IMHO

Not which ladder to buy 😀, parrcor options or effect of obstruction... 😆. 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Deadlake

[jetstream]

Just now, Deadlake said:

Not which ladder to buy 😀, parrcor options or effect of obstruction... 😆. 

Like I said, the views  through a big dob make one forget all about obstruction or anything like that. One look at the Veil through my 24" just might convince you

Btw the 24" is 19% obstructed and does not twist up under cooldown.

On the other hand...a C925 is running around 37% obstruction and with a big corrector to deal with thermally.

[Deadlake]

1 minute ago, jetstream said:

Like I said, the views  through a big dob make one forget all about obstruction or anything like that. One look at the Veil through my 24" just might convince you

Btw the 24" is 19% obstructed and does not twist up under cooldown.

On the other hand...a C925 is running around 37% obstruction and with a big corrector to deal with thermally.

Or a Mewlon or 10" GSO will cool down quicker. A new F3.3 20" is small enough not to need a rolling ladder...

[paulastro]

17 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

You need a large reflector so you've something to vent your anger on, and then sell off cheap after you look through a much smaller refractor.

Mike, doesn't the pic on the right remind you of our fondly remembered fiend Phil!?  I'm sure Phil would share the joke with us if he was still around🙂.

[paulastro]

52 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Not which ladder to buy 😀, parrcor options or effect of obstruction... 😆. 

 

Not exactly grab and go is it!

[paulastro]

19 hours ago, Pitch Black Skies said:

I think collimation is actually part of the fun. I love tinkering with things. 😁

That, and light gathering power of course.

I wish you lived next door to me.  I'd let you maintain my car 🙂.

[jetstream]

Not much to tinker with though?

even my 24" f4.1 is accurately collimated in 2 minutes- after bouncing off the ramp and wheeled across the gravel.

[Ships and Stars]

What about NV on a larger dob? I imagine that would be mind-blowing.

I'm considering putting something from the NV world on my 20". The 500p weighs 75-85kg all in, but breaks down quickly into smaller parts and sets up in about 15 minutes if I'm really moving fast.  I don't need a ladder per se, just a step about 20-30cm high to view at zenith. I feel like I am starting to find the limits of what I can see with my 20" under dark skies, which is an awful lot, but there are also tons of very faint galaxies I'd like to see in more detail and I'd also like to see a lot more from my 20.25-35ish SQM-L home if I can't drive to my rural spots.  Gerry does have the benefit of being able to wheel his dob out under dark skies right at home, so his mirror might not need a lot of cool down if his storage area is more or less unheated, or at least considerably colder than the interior, plus he has wolves to keep him company  which is honestly rather spectacular!

Now for larger extended objects, NV on something with a shorter focal length like my 12"  (300mm/1500mm) flextube would presumably show a lot as well. Even binoculars...

I suspect in the future NV will continue to edge into the realm of mainstream astronomy, but there will always be the big reflector crowd, the direct, natural naked eye views are amazing, but the option to add NV if desired would produce a real powerhouse I'd imagine...

Interesting to think about, I wonder how the image quality of NV compares though to naked eye astronomy (i.e. looking through eyepieces)? I imagine there would be flicker and much lower resolution. I seem to recall the human eye can see about 300dpi on average, maybe a bit more.

Anyway...fun to think about

[GavStar]

14 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

What about NV on a larger dob? I imagine that would be mind-blowing.

I'm considering putting something from the NV world on my 20". The 500p weighs 75-85kg all in, but breaks down quickly into smaller parts and sets up in about 15 minutes if I'm really moving fast.  I don't need a ladder per se, just a step about 20-30cm high to view at zenith. I feel like I am starting to find the limits of what I can see with my 20" under dark skies, which is an awful lot, but there are also tons of very faint galaxies I'd like to see in more detail and I'd also like to see a lot more from my 20.25-35ish SQM-L home if I can't drive to my rural spots.  Gerry does have the benefit of being able to wheel his dob out under dark skies right at home, so his mirror might not need a lot of cool down if his storage area is more or less unheated, or at least considerably colder than the interior, plus he has wolves to keep him company  which is honestly rather spectacular!

Now for larger extended objects, NV on something with a shorter focal length like my 12"  (300mm/1500mm) flextube would presumably show a lot as well. Even binoculars...

I suspect in the future NV will continue to edge into the realm of mainstream astronomy, but there will always be the big reflector crowd, the direct, natural naked eye views are amazing, but the option to add NV if desired would produce a real powerhouse I'd imagine...

Interesting to think about, I wonder how the image quality of NV compares though to naked eye astronomy (i.e. looking through eyepieces)? I imagine there would be flicker and much lower resolution. I seem to recall the human eye can see about 300dpi on average, maybe a bit more.

Anyway...fun to think about

My dob is not a 20 inch but quite close and in combination with my night vision monocular I think the views are amazing with very good image quality. Not sure I’d like to go up against Gerry with his 24 inch one though 😀

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by GavStar

[Stephenstargazer]

51 minutes ago, paulastro said:

Not exactly grab and go is it!

Oh, I don't know, the ladder has wheels and you just push it out of a very big shed 😀😀

[Deadlake]

19 minutes ago, GavStar said:

My dob is not a 20 inch but quite close and in combination with my night vision monocular I think the views are amazing with very good image quality. Not sure I’d like to go up against Gerry with his 24 inch one though 😀

 

Is your 16" Dob going to stay on the Isle of Wight or will you bring it back to London light pollution?

Wondering if above a certain aperture with NV you need a darker site? 

[GavStar]

2 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

Is your 16" Dob going to stay on the Isle of Wight or will you bring it back to London light pollution?

Wondering if above a certain aperture with NV you need a darker site? 

It’s staying on the Isle of Wight for now. I don’t think my partner would be happy with it clogging up the boot each time we visited 🤣 My c11 is absolutely fine for when I feel like more aperture in London or darker sites in Surrey/Sussex.

[jetstream]

29 minutes ago, GavStar said:

My dob is not a 20 inch but quite close and in combination with my night vision monocular I think the views are amazing with very good image quality.

One day I am going to try NV, for sure. This is the one thing I still have "drive" to acquire. As always great reports and images Gavin

Edited April 30, 2021 by jetstream

[Louis D]

From what I've read, a lot of NV observing is at low powers (1x to 3x using Galilean camera telephoto adapters) to enhance naked eye viewing of the night sky on a grand scale.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Louis D

[Mr Spock]

Here's a shock for you (or maybe not). I've recently spent quite a few nights looking at the moon through my ancient Helios 120mm achro. If I ignore the CA, the image detail and quality is equal to, or even better than, a C9.25. The only advantages the C9.25 has are brightness of the image and lack of false colour.

[Chris]

2 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

Here's a shock for you (or maybe not). I've recently spent quite a few nights looking at the moon through my ancient Helios 120mm achro. If I ignore the CA, the image detail and quality is equal to, or even better than, a C9.25. The only advantages the C9.25 has are brightness of the image and lack of false colour.

 Hi Micheal, can I just clarify? Are you saying the extra aperture of the C9.25 didn't resolve any finer detail? I might experiment with un obstructed glass verses larger obstructed mirrors on say lunar detail.   

Edited April 30, 2021 by Lockie

[Pitch Black Skies]

2 hours ago, paulastro said:

I wish you lived next door to me.  I'd let you maintain my car 🙂.

Love working on cars. Although, something always goes not quite to plan. I removed my starter motor a few months ago and a bolt that holds it from the inside fell into the bottom of the bell housing! I had to order a diagnostic camera that has a little magnet on the end of it and then spent a few hours in the cold and rain trying to pry it out. You can imagine the relief when I got it out 😌

[Ships and Stars]

2 hours ago, GavStar said:

My dob is not a 20 inch but quite close and in combination with my night vision monocular I think the views are amazing with very good image quality. Not sure I’d like to go up against Gerry with his 24 inch one though 😀

 

That's impressive! Were those taken under urban or rural skies? Either way, I've got to try NV.