Synscan - How do you know mount is tracking.

[woldsweather]

I've been using Synscan 6 months and that's total experience at astrophotography. I used Polemaster to Polar align last night. I then connected my android phone to synscan and began 2* alignmment. The scope swung round and pointed into the ground. Now this has been a common feature. Is there somewhere I should be telling asynscan the mount is the home  position? If I slacken the clutches and line up on the first star then use synscan to 'goto' the next star then that star is slewed to perfectly.

 

After that I sent to M86 and took a picture at 30 seconds - huge star trails. The mount couldn't have been tracking. Whereabouts do I set the mount tracking?

[AstroMuni]

Check that it has your location coords correctly. Also it can sometimes think you are in Southern hemisphere and move your scope incorrectly. There is a park option in Synscan. When you execute that check where it puts the scope - that is where it thinks the Home position is. You can move your scope manually to the correct position after your have parked the scope to adjust.

Edited April 13, 2021 by AstroMuni

[carastro]

Does sound like the mount thinks you are in the wrong part of the world, i.e. Southern hemisphere.  Hope it's not tracking in reverse because of that, though I would have thought it would know from your target you were in the Northern hemisphere, but just to be absolutely certain, when you enter the date and time etc, there is also a place to enter your co-ordinates, make sure you have them in correctly and + for Northern hemisphere. 

If I put my ear up to the mount I can hear a faint ticking when the mount is tracking.  But you shouldn;t have to tell it to track.  The other thing might be worth checking, is whether you are set on Solar or lunar tracking rather than sidereal, it should be somewhere in the handset.  Can;t quite remember where it is as that could cause weird tracking.

Also if you are not guiding then you will get some trailing anyway though sounds like yours was more than to be expected.

Carole   

  

Edited April 13, 2021 by carastro

[happy-kat]

What mount are you using?

For inputting correct details the Android app synscaninit is very good. 

[woldsweather]

1 hour ago, AstroMuni said:

Check that it has your location coords correctly. Also it can sometimes think you are in Southern hemisphere and move your scope incorrectly. There is a park option in Synscan. When you execute that check where it puts the scope - that is where it thinks the Home position is. You can move your scope manually to the correct position after your have parked the scope to adjust.

This is the android app. I have always assumed it gets the location via the phones GPS? I can't find the park option in the android app.

[woldsweather]

6 minutes ago, carastro said:

Does sound like the thinks you are in the wrong part of the world, i.e. Southern hemisphere.  Hope it's not tracking in reverse because of that, though I would have thought it would know from your target you were in the Northern hemisphere, but just to be absolutely certain, when you enter the date and time etc, there is also a place to enter your co-ordinates, make sure you have them in correctly and + for Northern hemisphere. 

If I put my ear up to the mount I can hear a faint ticking when the mount is tracking.  But you shouldn;t have to tell it to track.  The other thing might be worth checking, is whether you are set on Solar or lunar tracking rather than sidereal, it should be somewhere in the handset.  Can;t quite remember where it is as that could cause weird tracking.

Also if you are not guiding then you will get some trailing anyway though sounds like yours was more than to be expected.

Carole   

  

I had a friend with me last night who has 60+ years experience of Astrophotography (though not Synscan app). He said he couldn't hear it tracking. He looked around in synscan and we tried again and got no trailing (well in the centre any way all around the edges is another problem re back focus we are trying to get sorted). It is set on sidereal - thats right isn't it?

[woldsweather]

43 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

What mount are you using?

For inputting correct details the Android app synscaninit is very good. 

The mount is an EQM-35 Pro

[Padraic M]

After having problems earlier last year with my HEQ5 Pro Synscan mount, I have learned to love the faint noises that the mount makes when it's working correctly. Firstly there's the soft hum when it powers up and the electronics are alive. Then, when it starts to track, there's a cyclical whirr-whirr-whirr which is the RA motor in action. I'd expect something similar with your EQM-35 Pro.

I haven't used the Android app. Do you have access to the hand controller? It might be easier to trouble shoot using the HC rather than the app.

It's important that your initialisation settings are correct for your location and time. This WILL have an impact on your tracking and will cause star trails. GPS coordinates for latitude and longitude should be accurate (North and East are '+'; South and West are '-'.  I have often forgotten that I'm West! ). Setting -55 latitude instead of +55 would have you pointing through the floor. Altitude, time zone, daylight saving and date/time must be correct too. 

I'll assume your polar alignment is correct, but a bad PA would also cause star trails.

Other than to get your mount aligned roughly into the Home position, you shouldn't need to loosen the clutches. As mentioned by AstroMuni above, you can instruct the mount to Park to Home Position (the HC definitely can; I would be amazed if the app doesn't, and if it truly doesn't I'd ditch the app.) If the mount has an incorrect impression of where home position is, loosen the clutches and move it there yourself. Lock the clutches and try again.

When performing Star Alignment, use the hand controller keys to centre the star in the FOV. Don't open the clutches and manually move the mount head. Sorry for asking the stupid question but I presume that the star you have selected for SA is in the Northern Hemisphere? You're better to complete the alignment process, then ask the mount to park at home position, and then try Goto a target again (or do a Star Alignment again). Everything should work fine the second time (and every time after that). If not, there may be an actual mount problem.

You can check/change tracking on the handset under the Setup menu: Setup/Tracking. You should be using Sidereal mode. Change to Stop Tracking and back to Sidereal Rate to hear the difference in mount sounds. Sidereal Rate should be started automatically once you start Star Alignment, unless you've previously selected a different rate, or have stopped tracking manually.

[M40]

When I first started using the HEQ5 I frequently had the telescope pointing in the wrong direction for the first star. It proved to be user error in setting the mount home position. Once I realised the error of my ways the mount now behaves, so first off, can I suggest you start with making sure the mount home position is ok. Next I found I had to do numerous corrections on the fast moving solar system stuff, this proved to be polar alignment. Get them two sorted and I think the rest will fall into place. As Padraic M said, if the hand controller is available start with that if you can. I can help with finding the home position on an HEQ5 which may translate to your mount, post away of you would like my method likewise there is an excellent polar alignment method on here, post away if you would like me to find it. HTH.

[woldsweather]

21 minutes ago, M40 said:

When I first started using the HEQ5 I frequently had the telescope pointing in the wrong direction for the first star. It proved to be user error in setting the mount home position. Once I realised the error of my ways the mount now behaves, so first off, can I suggest you start with making sure the mount home position is ok. Next I found I had to do numerous corrections on the fast moving solar system stuff, this proved to be polar alignment. Get them two sorted and I think the rest will fall into place. As Padraic M said, if the hand controller is available start with that if you can. I can help with finding the home position on an HEQ5 which may translate to your mount, post away of you would like my method likewise there is an excellent polar alignment method on here, post away if you would like me to find it. HTH.

When you say making sure the mount home position is correct can you explain? I am very familiar with where Polaris will be in my garden and even setting up in a different part of the garden I usually have Polaris visible in the polarscope from my first guess. I have never used the hand controller hust the app and am familiar with that. It would be another learning curve starting with the hand controller. My neighbour who has 60+ years experience watched over me do the PA last night and was happy we had a good PA. Then a 30sec shot of M86 showed long star trails - the mount wasn't even tracking.

[M40]

This is my method, bit long winded and I am not sure how much of it will translate to your mount but it's a mechanical setup before you do anything else. Once you have it correct, I just marked the positions on the mount so it very quickly be set to the home position.. I shall find the link to the PA I use.

Setting Home Position on HEQ5:

1.       Position North tripod leg to face North Celestial Pole (Polaris)

2.       Set and level tripod

3.       Position motor so that the weight bar is at lowest point and pointing to the North

4.       Set the telescope mount so that the telescope locking knobs are to the right

5.       Extend weight bar

6.       Stand facing ON/OFF switch

7.       Release RA clutch lock, rotate body anticlockwise and set body and weight bar to the horizontal position

8.       Level with bubble and lock RA clutch

9.       RA graticule scale is located adjacent to the polar scope cover

10.   Release RA graticule locking screw.

11.   Adjust graticule scale to show 12.00 against marker

12.   Release RA lock

13.   Rotate body clockwise until RA graticule scale shows 6.00 against marker

14.   Lock RA clutch lock

15.   Release DA clutch lock

16.   Rotate telescope mount clockwise so that the telescope locking knobs point down

17.   Level telescope mount

18.   Lock DA clutch lock

19.   Declination graticule scale is adjacent to the weight bar

20.   Release the two Declination graticule scale screws and rotate the scale to show zero against marker

21.   Retighten the two DA scale screws

22.   Release DA clutch lock

23.   Rotate telescope mount anticlockwise until the DA scale is at the 90’ position

24.   Lock DA clutch lock

 

This is the home position.

 

Telescope should now be in the following position:

 

North leg pointing towards North Celestial Pole

Weight bar at lowest position and pointing to the North Celestial Pole

When standing facing ON/OFF switch, Telescope mount knobs to the right

RA scale shows 6.00

DA scale shows 90’

[woldsweather]

Many thanks for the detailed response I shall print off and work through it.

[powerlord]

hi, it might be worth trying what I found I had to do with my EQSTARPRO:

As for how you know its tracking in syncscan app top right when you've 'goto'ed somewhere you will see a >> icon. tap that and it will show you what tracking is enabled (1/2 sidereal, sidereal, moon, sun). Also if you stick yer ear on the RA motor you should here it.

You can also check your PA there (and frankly its a d4mn site quicker getting correct via app that with scope imho.

first ensure you are using synscan pro app not 'synscan;.

once you've done alignment, got to utilties, advanced and chose polar align. you can choose a star (i usually just got for the brighest of the two I've just used to align) and follow the instructions but its basically:

- centre  star using app buttons, NEXT

- align star in up/down middle using ALTI MOUNT screw , NEXT

- align star in left/right using RA MOUNT screws , DONE.

Now, go to alignment, reset and do it again.

 

 

[M40]

Found the polar alignment post.....

Here's my routine for polar alignment and it works on the basis that your finder is set as good as it can be, so align your finder and telescope on a star at night rather than a daytime object. Before you start, make sure your polar scope is aligned correctly with your mount.

Set the mount to it's home position. Plonk your telescope on the mount and using the lowest value eyepiece you have, center polaris in your telescope and your finder using the polar alignment adjustments. Rotate the telescope the 90' so you can see through the polar scope. Hopefully polaris will now at least be on your polar scope target area. It will be brighter than the other stars in your polar scope, now just carry out the polar alignment as normal. 

There was a superb post on here recently and I kept this link, have a look as it works well and is easy to follow.... https://darkskies.space/easy-polar-alignment/

Hope it helps.

[irtuk]

Go and get the  android app "SYNSCANINIT"

I had pretty much the same thing going on and it was down to the mount date / time format being MM / DD / YYYY . I had been setting DD/MM/YYYY

Synscan init will tell you exactly what to put in the settings

 

Ed.

 

[carastro]

Quote

It is set on sidereal - thats right isn't it?

Yes that's correct. 

Yes I agree with above, if your mount points to the ground on first try, it must surely be trying to get a star on the other side of the world.  By then moving the mount manually, you are not "telling" the mount it is pointing in the wrong place and therefore it thinks it has it right, so next time it will do the same again. 

One really basic user error is you need to have the date in the American format.  i.e.  yesterday was 04:12.21  Not the English way around.   If you put it in the English way around the mount will think it is the 4th December and will be looking for what is in the sky in early December.  

It doesn't sound promising though if your experienced friend thinks it is not tracking.  Assuming you have the correct power to the  mount it sounds possibly faulty.  If it is still under guarantee I would have a chat with your retailer. 

Carole 

  

Edited April 13, 2021 by carastro

[woldsweather]

1 hour ago, irtuk said:

Go and get the  android app "SYNSCANINIT"

I had pretty much the same thing going on and it was down to the mount date / time format being MM / DD / YYYY . I had been setting DD/MM/YYYY

Synscan init will tell you exactly what to put in the settings

 

Ed.

 

I just went to download it and I already have it on my phone. How do you use it then? Does it make sure synscan is using the right data? Do you run it every time before you run synscan?

[AstroMuni]

20 hours ago, woldsweather said:

I can't find the park option in the android app.

I think its the Hibernate button on the Synscan Pro app. I have this on my phone but never used it as I control via Pi and EQMOD.

[woldsweather]

6 minutes ago, AstroMuni said:

I think its the Hibernate button on the Synscan Pro app. I have this on my phone but never used it as I control via Pi and EQMOD.

Just checked I had Synscan pro installed and I had but also Synscan and I had been using this rather than pro the last 6 months. Don't know what difference that would make.

13 hours ago, irtuk said:

Go and get the  android app "SYNSCANINIT"

I had pretty much the same thing going on and it was down to the mount date / time format being MM / DD / YYYY . I had been setting DD/MM/YYYY

Synscan init will tell you exactly what to put in the settings

 

Ed.

 

I can't find anywhere in Synscan pro to put the date/year

[Gfamily]

8 minutes ago, woldsweather said:

Just checked I had Synscan pro installed and I had but also Synscan and I had been using this rather than pro the last 6 months. Don't know what difference that would make.

I can't find anywhere in Synscan pro to put the date/year

Don't worry about it,  if you're using the synscan app it should be getting the time and location from your phone. 

Synscaninit is normally for when you are using the mount with a handset.

BUT do check the Location  under Settings on the app to confirm it is showing the right Lat and Long. You may need to give the app permission to use the Location Services on the phone. 

 

[woldsweather]

I have input the lat long positions now they were pretty close. My phone says no location sensor which seems odd as it works fine as satnav or walking with OS maps.

 

[Cornelius Varley]

1 minute ago, woldsweather said:

My phone says no location sensor which seems odd as it works fine as satnav or walking with OS maps.

The phone is triangulating its location from phone masts.

[Zermelo]

Your location "sensor" will be a combination of GPS, wifi and cell info that Android uses to establish a location with differnt degrees of accuracy.

You can disable some all/of these in Android, which will affect the accuracy, and the apps themselves need to be given permission to use the location.

[michael8554]

To check for Sidereal Tracking:

Align an hour mark on the RA setting circle to a reference point on the mount.

Let it "track" for 30 minutes.

Mount should have moved halfway to the next hour mark.

My iPhone needed "Location Services" enabled to get GPS reception.

Unusually for an american company, my Meade asks for date in the form  14 APR 2021   no chance of mistake there.

But makes no mention of the convention for Latitude and Longitude !

Michael

[AstroMuni]

21 minutes ago, woldsweather said:

My phone says no location sensor which seems odd

I think thats an issue with the app. I recall having same problem and had to enter manually.

To check if mount is tracking ,a simple way is to look at the RA/DEC readings. If its tracking to a certain object those should remain unchanged.

Edited April 14, 2021 by AstroMuni