Baader Morpheus range - General chat

[Ricochet]

Brightness of a point source is related to aperture so the 8" should be brighter than the 6". 

Brightness of extended objects is related to the exit pupil so these should appear to be a touch brighter in the f5 scope than the f6. 

Additionally, the pds scopes have larger secondaries so that the fully illuminated field is larger. This could result in brighter off axis performance but secondaries are usually sized at the point where people won't notice the drop in brightness at the edge. 

[Soligor Rob]

Ok, I did check the collimation on the Dob but have to admit it was only a quick look so after a cuppa I moved the Dob into the conservatory and set about making a proper job of it and found the collimation to be out by a small amount so you guys were right hence the poorer visual quality.

Hopefully we will get a similar clear evening sky tonight so I can get back out to compare.

It's a frustrating old malarkey this sky watching.

[Voyager 3]

16 hours ago, Ricochet said:

Brightness of extended objects is related to the exit pupil so these should appear to be a touch brighter in the f5 scope than the f6. 

 

It's not exactly that the F5 scope will be brighter than the F6 . In this equation , the F5 is a 6" and the F6 a 8" . So yes if the same FL eyepiece is used , the F5 will be brighter , but with a lesser magnification . 

If equal magnification is used , the F6 will be brighter . For comparison , either the magnification should be same or the exit pupil should be same . 

[Don Pensack]

At f/5, the exit pupil of the eyepiece is 2.5mm

At f/6, the exit pupil of the eyepiece is 2.08mm.

That calculates to a 44.5% brighter image in the f/5 scope.

Now, that's the brightness of the field in unit area measurements.

In terms of how faint a star could be seen, the higher magnification and smaller true field in the longer scope should lead to fainter stars being seen at the limit.

So, in answer to Rob's question, yes the field will appear brighter in the 150mm.

But the dimmest star visible should be dimmer in the 200mm if/when you do that kind of observation.

[Soligor Rob]

The seed was planted that my collimation might not be good so I bought a Laser tool and found it was actually out a tad, have to say what a fantastic tool the laser is, it made the job so much easier for me than using the Cheshire.

 

[Don Pensack]

8 hours ago, Soligor Rob said:

The seed was planted that my collimation might not be good so I bought a Laser tool and found it was actually out a tad, have to say what a fantastic tool the laser is, it made the job so much easier for me than using the Cheshire.

 

Hopefully, your laser was collimated.  You can check it by rotating it in the focuser and clamping it at 90° intervals.  If the dot stays in one spot on the primary, you can use it as a collimation tool.

If not, it isn't collimating your scope to use it.  You can look up the links on line to collimate a laser collimator in that case.

As for collimating the primary, you need to use a barlow to be accurate enough when using a laser.  The beam itself is not accurate enough--it can only get you in the ballpark.

I'll attach an article on the Barlowed Laser collimation technique.

BarlowedLaserInstructions.pdf

[Soligor Rob]

Hi Don,

I thank you for PDF page, an interesting and informative read.

 I was already aware of the laser accuracy and before use I checked it out in my engineers Vee blocks, thankfully it was 

spot on across my 20' workshop.

I will certainly be looking into using the barlow method in the future.👍

 

[Virtus]

Here's my word of warning to anyone who is "just going to try one"! 😆

[Soligor Rob]

8 hours ago, Virtus said:

Here's my word of warning to anyone who is "just going to try one"! 😆

Oh heavens I have EP envy...

[Soligor Rob]

Just a question to those that know, without doubt the Morpheus is an excellent EP, (I bought the 12.5 on the recommendations from this thread) I just wondered how much better it was than the Baader Hyperion considering the price difference.

I ask this as last night I used for the first time my newly purchased Baader Hyperion Zoom and have to say the viewing of the moon was very impressive at all settings, even when attached to the matching Barlow, this was in my Explorer 150PDS and also Sky Watcher Evostar 150Ed DS.

[John]

1 minute ago, Soligor Rob said:

Just a question to those that know, without doubt the Morpheus is an excellent EP, (I bought the 12.5 on the recommendations from this thread) I just wondered how much better it was than the Baader Hyperion considering the price difference.

I ask this as last night I used for the first time my newly purchased Baader Hyperion Zoom and have to say the viewing of the moon was very impressive at all settings, even when attached to the matching Barlow, this was in my Explorer 150PDS and also Sky Watcher Evostar 150Ed DS.

Do you mean better than the Hyperion fixed focal length eyepieces or the Hyperion zoom ?

They are quite different.

 

 

 

[Soligor Rob]

1 hour ago, John said:

Do you mean better than the Hyperion fixed focal length eyepieces or the Hyperion zoom ?

They are quite different.

Hi John,

I'm just asking overall as it seems the Baader range from the £49 Plossl's through to the Morpheus including the zoom give excellent viewing optics, or rather they certainly work very well in my scopes.

I understand my 70yr old eyes are not at their best but as a beginner I found myself experiencing the wow factor whilst searching the terminator line on the moon last night using the Hyperion Zoom for the first time, I thoroughly enjoyed myself and all without constantly having to change EP's.

Perhaps when winter comes and I am looking at the Orion Nebula I might find the zoom lacking but currently I am on an exciting road of discovery.

 

 

 

 

[Louis D]

Let a bright star drift from center to edge in both the Morpheus and the BHZ.  Does it remain point-like to the edge in both?  Also, does the BHZ allow as long a dwell time at 12.5mm before nudging your Dob again?  Do both control stray light as well on the moon and planets as they drift across the field?  Can you see the same amount of field in both while wearing eyeglasses?  These are all factors contributing to the higher cost of premium eyepieces.

[John]

3 hours ago, Soligor Rob said:

Hi John,

I'm just asking overall as it seems the Baader range from the £49 Plossl's through to the Morpheus including the zoom give excellent viewing optics, or rather they certainly work very well in my scopes.

I understand my 70yr old eyes are not at their best but as a beginner I found myself experiencing the wow factor whilst searching the terminator line on the moon last night using the Hyperion Zoom for the first time, I thoroughly enjoyed myself and all without constantly having to change EP's.

Perhaps when winter comes and I am looking at the Orion Nebula I might find the zoom lacking but currently I am on an exciting road of discovery.

I didn't find the fixed focal length Hyperions that well corrected towards the field edges in scopes with focal ratios of F/6 or faster. From what I've read (I have not used them personally) the Morpheus are much better corrected eyepieces in scopes of those faster focal ratios. This was sometime ago though so they may have improved the fixed focal length Hyperions since then ?

I've owned a couple of the Baader Hyperion zooms and found them generally sharp and contrasty eyepieces - they seemed a bit better corrected at the edges of the field of view than the fixed focal length Hyperions but the zooms apparent field is somewhat narrower through most of it's focal range of course.

I found that the Hyperion zoom lost a little in light transmission when viewing deep sky objects but this was comparing them with fixed focal length and much higher cost alternatives.

I reviewed the Baader Classic Ortho's a while back for the forum:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/175014-baader-classics-the-story-so-far/

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by John

[Don Pensack]

I don't recommend Hyperions below f/6, and I don't recommend the 31mm and 36mm Hyperions below f/8

Sure, they can be used in faster scopes, but they will have a lot of outer field astigmatism.

It's like the Morpheus, which I don't recommend below f/4.  In my f/5.75, the 14mm Morpheus is near-perfect.

In my friend's f/3.45, it was not good at all.

[badhex]

If, hypothetically speaking of course, I were to consider buying another Morpheus, my choices would be between the 6.5mm and 4.5mm. Primary usage for now would be with a C5 at F10 and ZS73 at F5.9.
Now the problem is as follows: 

• 6.5mm would probably be useful in a wider range of potential future scopes, and definitely a better choice for a high power EP in the C5 at 192x / 39x per inch
• 6.5mm only gives me 66x / 23x per inch in the ZS73
• 4.5mm is better suited as my higher/highest power EP for the ZS73 at 96x /  33x per inch
• 4.5mm would be really pushing the C5 at 278x / 56x per inch

 

Thoughts?

Anyone got specific experience and feedback using the 4.5mm  / 6.5mm in similar scopes?

Edited July 23, 2021 by badhex

[Louis D]

Not every eyepiece is suited for every focal ratio.  That's why we end up with a wide range of eyepiece focal lengths.

I tend to use my AT72ED at 100x and below.  Above that, purple fringing becomes very apparent.  Thus, the 4.5mm would be fine for your ZS73 which will show even less fringing with its FPL-53 glass.

With my f/12 127mm Mak, I tend to stay below 200x due to exit pupil issues.  Thus, the 6.5mm would be about the max for your C5.

Clearly, get both. 😁

[badhex]

5 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Not every eyepiece is suited for every focal ratio.  That's why we end up with a wide range of eyepiece focal lengths.

I tend to use my AT72ED at 100x and below.  Above that, purple fringing becomes very apparent.  Thus, the 4.5mm would be fine for your ZS73 which will show even less fringing with its FPL-53 glass.

With my f/12 127mm Mak, I tend to stay below 200x due to exit pupil issues.  Thus, the 6.5mm would be about the max for your C5.

Clearly, get both. 😁

I knew someone would say get both! And I suspected it would be you Louis 😂 after all it's your fault I'm even looking! 

I really do only have space for one (can you tell I'm trying to convince myself?!)

I am swayed by the 4.5mm though, as it seems fitting to buy high quality glass for use with the ZS73. 

I also do have a BCO in 6mm which is great for planetary in my C5. 

[John]

On 23/07/2021 at 12:20, badhex said:

If, hypothetically speaking of course, I were to consider buying another Morpheus, my choices would be between the 6.5mm and 4.5mm. Primary usage for now would be with a C5 at F10 and ZS73 at F5.9.
Now the problem is as follows: 

• 6.5mm would probably be useful in a wider range of potential future scopes, and definitely a better choice for a high power EP in the C5 at 192x / 39x per inch
• 6.5mm only gives me 66x / 23x per inch in the ZS73
• 4.5mm is better suited as my higher/highest power EP for the ZS73 at 96x /  33x per inch
• 4.5mm would be really pushing the C5 at 278x / 56x per inch

 

Thoughts?

Anyone got specific experience and feedback using the 4.5mm  / 6.5mm in similar scopes?

My 130mm refractor has a focal length of 1200mm and a focal ratio of F/9.2 so the basic specs are similar to the C5 but probably not a reasonable comparison in other respects.

I find that I regularly use 5mm, 4mm and even 3mm focal length eyepieces with it.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by John

[badhex]

20 minutes ago, John said:

My 130mm refractor has a focal length of 1200mm and a focal ratio of F/9.2 so the basic specs are similar to the C5 but probably not a reasonably comparison in other respects.

I find that I regularly use 5mm, 4mm and even 3mm focal length eyepieces with it.

 

Thanks John, good to know. If I do go for the 4.5mm I'll be interested to see how the C5 performs with it. I suppose that there's a much better chance of a decent outcome with something like a Morpheus, although I am guessing I'll still need very good conditions. 

[Don Pensack]

5 hours ago, badhex said:

Thanks John, good to know. If I do go for the 4.5mm I'll be interested to see how the C5 performs with it. I suppose that there's a much better chance of a decent outcome with something like a Morpheus, although I am guessing I'll still need very good conditions. 

One major disadvantage to an eyepiece that yields an exit pupil of 0.5mm or smaller (0.45mm, in this case) is that the exit pupil is so small that not only is the image very dim, but floaters in the eye can intercept the light and cause those annoying aberrations.

You won't view the Moon at small exit pupils for long before the presence of dots, amoebas, bacilli, and arcs that fall in front of the craters become extremely annoying.

Keep the exit pupil larger and this is much less of an issue.  I such a case, a 6.5mm might be a lot more usable on Moon and planets than a 4.5mm.

[badhex]

8 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

One major disadvantage to an eyepiece that yields an exit pupil of 0.5mm or smaller (0.45mm, in this case) is that the exit pupil is so small that not only is the image very dim, but floaters in the eye can intercept the light and cause those annoying aberrations.

You won't view the Moon at small exit pupils for long before the presence of dots, amoebas, bacilli, and arcs that fall in front of the craters become extremely annoying.

Keep the exit pupil larger and this is much less of an issue.  I such a case, a 6.5mm might be a lot more usable on Moon and planets than a 4.5mm.

Fair point, thanks Don. I do generally try to go for minimum exit pupil between 0.5mm and 1mm. Thankfully with the ZS73 it would be a much more manageable 0.76mm.

[Barry-W-Fenner]

Wow, This thread has taken on a life of its own since my last post.  I will have to have a read through!

I have just been looking at the 12.5 on FLOS web page, it is currently out of stock along with every other FL. All that is in stock is 1no 6.5mm. The Morpheus range really do seem to be getting about!

Regards

Baz

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Barry-W-Fenner

[Louis D]

42 minutes ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Wow, This thread has taken on a life of its own since my last post.  I will have to have a read through!

I have just been looking at the 12.5 on FLOS web page, it is currently out of stock along with every other FL. All that is in stock is 1no 6.5mm. The Morpheus range really do seem to be getting about!

Regards

Baz

 

Agena Astro in the US appears to have 8 of them in stock.

[Barry-W-Fenner]

8 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Agena Astro in the US appears to have 8 of them in stock.

Dont do that to me Louis..

I have recently been pondering the 12.5mm to replace the 14mm, However I dont know if it is really worth doing.

Regards