Observing when traveling - binoculars? small telescope? none?

[Thingo]

Hi all, I'm very curious to hear what you think about the three options I've thought of for my upcoming travels 🙂

We'll head up to the north of Sweden and Norway coming fall for a hiking vacation and as we'll be spending quite a lot of time in bortle zones 1-2 I began thinking I need to take this opportunity to do some observing! My telescope, however, is not something you bring with you on a trip, the 126/970 refractor with the eq mount weighs 35+kg. I also have a pair of 10x26 binoculars of relatively good quality that I sometimes use for observing (and when hiking) when I don't have time to bring out the telescope. The light gathering capabilities are obviously not great with them though so I started thinking about buying something new instead. The way that I see it right now is that I have three options:

1. Not buying anything new and stick with my 10x26. 

2. Buy a new pair of binoculars, I've done some research and a pair of 8x50 / 10x50 or possibly going up to 56 mm seems to be quite good for observing and would still be very portable. I would not bring a mount for this. Did some calculations and the light gathering capacity of the 50mm compared to by current ones are about 270% higher. a pair of 56mm would be 364% higher. A 15x70 seems to be too difficult to handhold from what I've read so currently I don't consider that an option. Budget: not yet set, but likely below £200. 

3. Buy a small telescope + AZ3 mount. Haven't looked into this too much but in this case I would still consider a good quality telescope in the 65-85mm aperture range, I'm a sucker for refractors and spontaneously the WO Z73 or Z81 would be high on the list. These scopes would have 300-400% higher light gathering capacity than the 26mm. But when compared to 50mm they would only have 7%/31% and compared to 56mm -15%/5% respectively. Obviously the telescope would have many times higher magnification and it would be easier to make out things as it would be mounted. Budget: I would keep this below £1000. 

To note, the majority of the hiking will be day hikes meaning I don't expect to carry the telescope around while hiking. If I go with alternative 2 I would bring them while hiking otherwise I stick with my 10x26. 

 

I'm currently leaning towards option 2, but please let me know your thoughts. I'm very curious to hear them. What should weigh heavier in my decision making and what have I not considered? Other ideas? 

Many thanks for Zürich!

Edited March 16, 2021 by Thingo

[Tiny Clanger]

How are you getting there ?

Will your luggage be limited by weight or size ?

Heather

[Louis D]

I put together a 127 Mak and 60mm finder scope combination on a DSV-1 mount with a Manfrotto 3068 tripod, all of it second hand, for my daughter's car camping trips.  It works well to provide wider field views through the finder along with higher power views through the Mak without taking up much space in the back of her mid-sized SUV.  The OTA and finder go in a gym bag, the tripod and mount in a long tripod bag, and the eyepieces in a pistol case.  I was able to cobble the whole thing together a couple of years ago for under $500.

[Thingo]

7 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

How are you getting there ?

Will your luggage be limited by weight or size ?

Heather

We'll be flying. In option 3 I guess I would have to add some checked in luggage. Once we arrive we'll rent a car. 

So yes, it will be limited in size and weight - I would not bring anything even remotely as heavy and big as my current telescope and mount. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Thingo

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

If you want to save money,  not carry more than necessary, saving on luggage space, want true convenience and the option of day time use on hikes - 10x50 binoculars.

 

 

[Stu]

I’m a sucker for a small refractor, and have taken scopes abroad quite a few times. I most recently had a TS72mm and travelled with it a few times, so would personally agree with taking a small scope. They are very versatile, give higher quality images than most binoculars and have the added benefit of high power views.

I’m not sure the AZ3 mount is the best choice, there are a number of good AltAz mounts around. Personally I use a Giro-WR for travelling, very light and compact. Or there is the Scopetech Zero which picks down very well and has slo motion controls but is more expensive. Plenty of others like the AZ5 etc etc worth considering. A decent photographic tripod will help with stability too.

[Thingo]

27 minutes ago, Stu said:

I’m a sucker for a small refractor, and have taken scopes abroad quite a few times. I most recently had a TS72mm and travelled with it a few times, so would personally agree with taking a small scope. They are very versatile, give higher quality images than most binoculars and have the added benefit of high power views.

I’m not sure the AZ3 mount is the best choice, there are a number of good AltAz mounts around. Personally I use a Giro-WR for travelling, very light and compact. Or there is the Scopetech Zero which picks down very well and has slo motion controls but is more expensive. Plenty of others like the AZ5 etc etc worth considering. A decent photographic tripod will help with stability too.

Thank you. What mount do you use for the Giro-WR? It doesn't seem to come with one. How much does your setup weigh in total? Is the tripod small enough to bring as hand luggage? 

The Scopetech Zero looks quite impressive. 1.4 kg, wow!! 🤩 The AZ5 weighs 5kg with the tripod which I feel is on the high end. 

[Aquavit]

I've just bought a TS Optiks ED80, weighs 2.4Kg and their AZT6 mount which is a lovely little thing and weighs only 0.84Kg. Will go on my Manfrotto tripod making for a very lightweight portable setup and it all goes in a TS Optiks padded scope/gear bag. This is what I would take if I was driving, but if I was flying I'd prefer to take binoculars.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Thingo said:

Thank you. What mount do you use for the Giro-WR? It doesn't seem to come with one. How much does your setup weigh in total? Is the tripod small enough to bring as hand luggage? 

The Scopetech Zero looks quite impressive. 1.4 kg, wow!! 🤩 The AZ5 weighs 5kg with the tripod which I feel is on the high end. 

Do you mean tripod? I actually use a Gitzo GT5542LS which is very stable, but any decent photo tripod would do the job. I put scope, mount and eyepieces in hand baggage and the tripod goes in my suitcase.

The ScopeTech is actually very nice, and the slo mo controls work well. The Giro style mounts need more careful balancing and do benefit from a counterweight for best smoothness but with a small scope are fine without.

I have used the Giro-WR with a second clamp for dual scope setups and it works well for that too, although obviously not when travelling!

[Louis D]

I would probably recommend a carbon fiber tripod to keep the weight down if traveling by plane.  That, and get a compact alt-az mount as some have suggested above.  A 72mm ED refractor would work well on camping trips, but it will be severely limited by its aperture for resolving smaller DSOs.  They are great for scanning the skies at low powers and for looking at midsize and large objects, though.

[Tiny Clanger]

I'd be unhappy at the thought of an expensive telescope going in the hold of a

n aeroplane, and would want to find out exactly how much it would cost to insure it fully for the trip, or even if such insurance would be available at all. 

With the main activity of your holiday being hiking, I'd be inclined to think the binocular option would be better, do you use walking (trekkiing / alpine )  poles ? Many have a tripod screw at the top which could be used with a binocular adapter to steady either your existing kit or some bigger binoculars . Walking poles are not as tall as some photographic monopods,  but could probably be used from a seated position.

One more thought : are there any astronomy societies near the area you are visiting ? Maybe you could make contact with some locals who, if the sky is clear, might be willing to let you look through their 'scopes ?

[Roy Challen]

For me, bins, definitely. My observing requirements are different when I'm away from home, so don't need a telescope. Also useful for terrestrial viewing when hiking or sightseeing.

[Ceramus]

When I travelled to Chile for the solar eclipse of 2019 I took a Heritage 130 with the AzGTi in a large rucksack as cabin luggage (a bit heavy but doable) with tripod in the hold suitcase. Worked fine, great views of southern DSOs from the Atacama desert!

[Carbon Brush]

My biggest problem with 'holiday' kit has been the tripod legs.
Choosing something that collapses small enough to go into a suitcase, with a bit of padding at each end.
Sometimes struggled when putting it into a diving kit bag. Even separated the legs and head to save a few cm!
It is worth planning your case and tripod early.

A short tube refractor, or compound scope (MAK/SCT) or binos can go in your cabin bag to avoid damage.
Check the bag size and weight limits as they vary considerably between airlines.
I have found it useful to have the printed airline web page to to resolve size/weight arguments at check in.

Envious of your trip. Hope it goes well.

David.

[AlexK]

I had a blast traveling to Australia solo to observe the Totality and scuba dive the GBR with the carryon only: small wheeler with essentials and a small but wide daypack with the Edmunds Scientific Astroscan 4" ball-mount reflector and a DIY ring mount for it. I believe that's an ideal large binoculars replacement.

It worked on my laps even on the slightly rocking diving boat. 12 unforgettable nights under "alien" stars... Now building a 8" 1:4.2 folding truss for even better world traveling sky experience. As 4" was not enough for sure.

Edited March 17, 2021 by AlexK

[Thingo]

Thanks everyone for the input, it's most valuable to hear the different perspectives! 

The below posts basically summarises my concerns with bringing a telescope and after thinking about it today I would not want to check-in that luggage. I have measured my astronomy backpack and I would be able to fit a 70-80mm refractor in there and should I go for option 3, I would bring the telescope in that backpack as hand luggage. The tripod and probably the mount as well, would have to go in my regular luggage, but this would put quite some demands on the equipment, especially given that we're away for 3 weeks so I will have a lot of other things along. Tripod would have to be carbon fiber to retain enough stability and not weigh too much and the mount would have to be as small as possible. This drives cost which I would prefer spending on getting an 80mm instead of a 70mm for instance, because as Louis mentions, aperture will be the limiting factor and I would at least want to go as big as possible. But even then, magnification is going to be well below 200. I also started thinking of my 2" diagonal, I would probably not be bringing any of my 2" eyepieces (31nag and 5.5 ES100) which means that I could save some space by getting a new diagonal. This is getting more expensive my the minute 😄 Is it really worth it as the main focus of the trip is hiking? Obviously the telescope isn't going anywhere and I would be able to use it for future trips as well, but I'm not convinced at this stage. Observing will, indeed, be very different from when at home or when going on dedicated observing vacations by car. 

Also, with regards to the trekking poles as mentioned by Tiny, I do use such. Can't attach anything on top though, but I'll browse to see what is available. Good idea! Could be a great addition to a pair of binos. As to astronomy societies, I think that will be difficult as basically no one lives in the areas where we're going, I guess that's why they're bortle 1 skies 🙂  But I'll do some searching, the Norwegian side has much higher population density, but that also means that skies are zone 4-5, possibly down to 3, in the areas we'll be visiting which kind of defeats the purpose. I took a closer look at the map now and we'll only stay in zone 1-2 for less than half of the 3 weeks.

As much as I would want to have a small telescope for this vacation, or for other holidays when I simply don't have room for my current telescope, I just can't justify the costs. Right now I'm thinking a pair of binos, possibly with the idea of the trekking pole monopod which could allow me to go for a pair of 15x70. Going with a pair of 10x50 wouldn't give me that much compared to my 10x26 for terrestrial - I presume. Back to my excel sheets for analysis!

 

18 hours ago, Louis D said:

I would probably recommend a carbon fiber tripod to keep the weight down if traveling by plane.  That, and get a compact alt-az mount as some have suggested above.  A 72mm ED refractor would work well on camping trips, but it will be severely limited by its aperture for resolving smaller DSOs.  They are great for scanning the skies at low powers and for looking at midsize and large objects, though.

17 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

I'd be unhappy at the thought of an expensive telescope going in the hold of a

n aeroplane, and would want to find out exactly how much it would cost to insure it fully for the trip, or even if such insurance would be available at all. 

With the main activity of your holiday being hiking, I'd be inclined to think the binocular option would be better, do you use walking (trekkiing / alpine )  poles ? Many have a tripod screw at the top which could be used with a binocular adapter to steady either your existing kit or some bigger binoculars . Walking poles are not as tall as some photographic monopods,  but could probably be used from a seated position.

One more thought : are there any astronomy societies near the area you are visiting ? Maybe you could make contact with some locals who, if the sky is clear, might be willing to let you look through their 'scopes ?

6 hours ago, Roy Challen said:

For me, bins, definitely. My observing requirements are different when I'm away from home, so don't need a telescope. Also useful for terrestrial viewing when hiking or sightseeing.

3 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

My biggest problem with 'holiday' kit has been the tripod legs.
Choosing something that collapses small enough to go into a suitcase, with a bit of padding at each end.
Sometimes struggled when putting it into a diving kit bag. Even separated the legs and head to save a few cm!
It is worth planning your case and tripod early.

A short tube refractor, or compound scope (MAK/SCT) or binos can go in your cabin bag to avoid damage.
Check the bag size and weight limits as they vary considerably between airlines.
I have found it useful to have the printed airline web page to to resolve size/weight arguments at check in.

Envious of your trip. Hope it goes well.

David.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Thingo

[Louis D]

9 minutes ago, Thingo said:

Right now I'm thinking a pair of binos, possibly with the idea of the trekking pole monopod which could allow me to go for a pair of 15x70. Going with a pair of 10x50 wouldn't give me that much compared to my 10x26 for terrestrial - I presume. Back to my excel sheets for analysis!

15x70s are great for scanning the skies.  You will need to be seated and possibly reclined to use them effectively hand held.  8x42s are a great companion to them for wider views at about half the power.  Stick with porro prism designs to keep down the costs while maintaining good correction.  They will weigh a bit more than roof prism designs.

[AlexK]

IMO, Large binoculars like 70x15 are more like a stationary solution. Double weight for nearly nothing.

Tripod is such a hassle as well. Though, having 3 trekking poles you can use this device: https://backpackinglight.com/universal-trailpix-tripod-review/ to rig something not totally ridiculous.

If you would opt for that 130mm Heritage reflector or a similar folder, its semi-fork mount can be disassembled into 3 flat pieces and reassembled on the spot (some older models though may require replacing fasteners to make them not a single use, I saw that done in a single evening). Not for a strenuous backpacking, but for the flight and on the base camp it could be ideal with decent aperture as that what you want to enjoy goodies you could not enjoy in the light pollution.

Edited March 18, 2021 by AlexK

[Spile]

I was impressed with the low tech approach of this...

 

https://www.instructables.com/Airline-portable-8-Dobsonian-telescope/

Edited March 18, 2021 by Spile

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, Spile said:

I was impressed with the low tech approach of this...

 

https://www.instructables.com/Airline-portable-8-Dobsonian-telescope/

It amazes me there's no commercially made suitcase Dobs.  I think there are some bespoke makers in Europe, but at a very high price.  US bespoke Dob makers focus on large, high end stuff where profit margins are large.  It seems like Synta could make something compact and affordable, but they tend to focus on high volume, mass market Dobs.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Personally not planning any travel plans until about 2023. When I did travel pre-Covid, I usually just put a set of 10x50 bins in my case. I did once bring a 70-80mm  travel scope in a backpack as hand luggage, to Lanzarote. Never used it.

[Thingo]

21 hours ago, Louis D said:

15x70s are great for scanning the skies.  You will need to be seated and possibly reclined to use them effectively hand held.  8x42s are a great companion to them for wider views at about half the power.  Stick with porro prism designs to keep down the costs while maintaining good correction.  They will weigh a bit more than roof prism designs.

20 hours ago, AlexK said:

IMO, Large binoculars like 70x15 are more like a stationary solution. Doble weight for nearly nothing.

Tripod is such a hassle as well. Though, having 3 trekking poles you can use this device: https://backpackinglight.com/universal-trailpix-tripod-review/ to rig something not totally ridiculous.

If you would opt for that 130mm Heritage reflector or a similar folder, its semi-fork mount can be disassembled into 3 flat pieces and reassembled on the spot (some older models though may require replacing fasteners to make them not a single use, I saw that done in a single evening). Not for a strenuous backpacking, but for the flight and on the base camp it could be ideal with decent aperture as that what you want to enjoy goodies you could not enjoy in the light pollution.

This is what makes it difficult to decide on size for a pair of binoculars 😉 very preference based. On one hand I tend to lean towards the 10x50 or 10x56, but on the other hand I feel like it's a bit of a waste since I'll have such great skies - assuming weather is good of course - and then perahps my small binoculars are fine after all? Going with the 15x70 is significantly bulkier and will take up a lot of space while hiking. But in return the magnification (and aperture too of course) is very different from my 10x26. 

What about getting a spotting scope? Less room in my hiking backpack, don't need to bring oculars, mount and diagonal. Probably cheaper than a telescope of the same size. And the 45 degree angle while observing makes it easier on the neck! Will do some research on this. 

AlexK, I looked for this tripod you're referring to, found lots of pictures of it, but I couldn't find anywhere to buy it. Do you know if it's still in production? I like the idea of it.. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Thingo

[Thingo]

4 hours ago, Spile said:

I was impressed with the low tech approach of this...

 

https://www.instructables.com/Airline-portable-8-Dobsonian-telescope/

That's a bit above my league 😂 spending time on research is one thing, but to actually build my own telescope, unfortunately that is not something I would have time for.

[SuburbanMak]

If it's really dark where you're hiking 10x50's, roll-mat & a really good sleeping bag. 

(Add hip-flask as optional...) 

[Thingo]

19 minutes ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Personally not planning any travel plans until about 2023. When I did travel pre-Covid, I usually just put a set of 10x50 bins in my case. I did once bring a 70-80mm  travel scope in a backpack as hand luggage, to Lanzarote. Never used it.

Not being able to use it at all would probably feel like the ultimate failure. Going through a lot of hassle to configure and buy a new telescope and then not even use it - for whatever reason...