Dilemma! - Should I downgrade?

[Icesheet]

Normally these posts are what should I upgrade to but this is a should I downgrade (and what to) post. Hoping you can chime in with any experience you have had, regret or otherwise.

My current set up is an EQ6-R and Esprit 100ED with ASI1600mm as imaging cam. This is my 'dream' set up but I just haven't been using it enough. Unfortunately, I put that down to the EQ6-R mainly. Not that it is a bad mount but I have just grown so tired with the weight, dragging it in and out. It's not even that far to move but it has just become so cumbersome. I remember actually saying that the weight wouldn't bother me as well! Coupled with the fact that with the weather here you have to be ready to move on short notice it just isn't getting the use it deserves. I find myself reaching for my AZ Gti mount and Samyang 135 more often than not even although that set up has it's own frustrations, again mainly with the mount.

So now I'm at a cross roads as to what to do. I could just sell up and keep going with the AZ Gti/ Samyang combo but I know at some point I'll want a bit more reach again. The other option I'm considering is buying a CEM25p before they disappear. I know it isn't really suited to the Esprit 100ED but I could always give it a go and if it's not working sell that also and go for a good light weight scope in the 70-80mm / 400-600mm range.

So what would you/ have you done? As far as I can see the CEM25p should be a good match for camera lenses and small refractors.

 

 

[A McEwan]

Is a permanent setup an option? Maybe a pier in the garden with mount head fixed and aligned on it and with a weatherproof cover on it until it's needed?  It seems a shame to have one's "dream setup" and then find that some aspect of it is preventing you from getting enjoyment from it. I know for me too carrying heavy stuff around is one of the major downfalls in the hobby.

Ant

[Icesheet]

7 minutes ago, A McEwan said:

Is a permanent setup an option? Maybe a pier in the garden with mount head fixed and aligned on it and with a weatherproof cover on it until it's needed?  It seems a shame to have one's "dream setup" and then find that some aspect of it is preventing you from getting enjoyment from it. I know for me too carrying heavy stuff around is one of the major downfalls in the hobby.

Ant

It is something I considered last year actually. However, we had been talking about moving house and it put me off then but I suppose it's a consideration. I'm not too sure about leaving it out though. I'm living on the west coast of Norway which can be very wet and very cold. How reliable are these weatherproof covers?

Edited August 4, 2020 by Icesheet

[A McEwan]

I'm afraid it's not something I have any experience of. If my garden wasn't surrounded by bright street-lights I might have done it myself, but not worth it for me. I do have a freind who set up their ETX permanently on a pier in the garden and installed a tool storage box over the top of it so it just had to be unfolded open to be used. It was VERY weatherproof, especially with a secondary lining of a tarpaulin over the top of the system inside the "box".  He set his up so that apart from opening it up it could all be fully controlled remotely from inside!

[Skipper Billy]

A few years ago I went through the same pain that you are having.

An observatory doesn't have to be a wonderful all singing and dancing extension to your house. I built a simple wooden box just big enough to house the rig and everything is controlled from within the house.

It didn't cost a lot but it absolutely transformed my enjoyment of the hobby. From spotting a gap in the clouds I can be imaging in 5 mins. If it clouds over I am packed up in less than 5 mins. Polar alignment just once a year - and as its an annual occurrence I can take my time and get it bang on. No carrying valuable equipment about on icy paths etc.

We get similar weather here to yourself - maybe not as cold but certainly as wet.

We are also going to move in the next few years and I designed it so I can take the box and pier with me just leaving a concrete slab which will be hidden by a bench!

There are some photos here  - https://www.davidbanksastro.com/micro-observatory

and here - https://www.davidbanksastro.com/equipment

Its worth thinking about !!

 

 

[david_taurus83]

I recently sold almost everything. 2 scopes, guide setup, eyepieces, various bits and bobs. Not fell out of love with the hobby but constantly watching weather reports, lugging stuff in and out of the house, it kind of wears thin after a while, especially if the weather or transparency shows its futile after you've set everything up. I'm hoping to move house in the near future and a nice garden thats not bathed in the light of 3 streetlights would be a nice bonus. Then, I keep telling myself, I can set up a permanent system, whether it be a shed or pod or just a pier.

Until then though, I have kept my CEM25P as its a good one (I regretted selling my AZEQ6 prior to this as that was also a good one), my Canon 6D and a Canon 135mm lens. Such a simple setup, its a joy to just throw it out on the slabs in the garden, quick alignment and just leave the camera snapping away on target and not worry about laptops, guiding, cables, hubs etc.

Ps, the CEM25P will cope happily with a 102mm F7 scope at approx 7kg so should be OK with an Esprit 100 unless they are much heavier? The CEM's are tricky to balance though, not as simple as a SW EQ.

 

[Icesheet]

Thanks for the replies. You have both certainly given me a little hope and something to think about!

36 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

A few years ago I went through the same pain that you are having.

An observatory doesn't have to be a wonderful all singing and dancing extension to your house. I built a simple wooden box just big enough to house the rig and everything is controlled from within the house.

It didn't cost a lot but it absolutely transformed my enjoyment of the hobby. From spotting a gap in the clouds I can be imaging in 5 mins. If it clouds over I am packed up in less than 5 mins. Polar alignment just once a year - and as its an annual occurrence I can take my time and get it bang on. No carrying valuable equipment about on icy paths etc.

We get similar weather here to yourself - maybe not as cold but certainly as wet.

We are also going to move in the next few years and I designed it so I can take the box and pier with me just leaving a concrete slab which will be hidden by a bench!

There are some photos here  - https://www.davidbanksastro.com/micro-observatory

and here - https://www.davidbanksastro.com/equipment

Its worth thinking about !!

 

 

Thanks for these links @Skipper Billy, I can see you are a lot more handy than me though! I'm not sure calling that a wooden box is doing it justice haha. Plus the website looks very informative, looks like a lot of good information! I will be back to look in more detail for sure!

[Adreneline]

3 hours ago, Icesheet said:

As far as I can see the CEM25p should be a good match for camera lenses and small refractors.

I use a Samyang 135mm with an ASI1600 on an iOptron CEM25-EC and it is perfect for me especially now it is all controlled by an ASIair. I too had an NEQ6-Pro and ED80DS and in the end got tired of lugging it out, setting up and then lugging it all back in at the end of a session. At a push I can pick up the current setup in one go and be out and imaging in 15 minutes having polar aligned with a PoleMaster. @Skipper Billy's setup looks great and I may well take that route once we've moved house in a few months time.

I've just purchased a GSO RC 6" - I needed a challenge - which will push the CEM25 close to it's limits but should give me the opportunity to image some of the smaller nebula targets. I just need some clear nights so I can get to try it out!

Good luck!

Adrian

[Jiggy 67]

2 hours ago, Icesheet said:

It is something I considered last year actually. However, we had been talking about moving house and it put me off then but I suppose it's a consideration. I'm not too sure about leaving it out though. I'm living on the west coast of Norway which can be very wet and very cold. How reliable are these weatherproof covers?

I have the same mount and I agree it is a heavy cumbersome beast, I genuinely believe that this is not a mount to be lugging in and out of the house for every session, it simply isn’t practical . As a result I left my mount and scope out all last winter under a Telegizmos 365 cover.

I have not suffered any ill effects.....yet, I remove the cover as often as possible to air but the tripod means it’s open at the bottom anyway for ventilation. I also spray a good anti corrosion protective over the mount. 

I can be observing in 15 minutes, no PA or star alignment as the mount hasn’t moved and I just start from park position 
 

 

 

[Ouroboros]

“The other option I'm considering is buying a CEM25p before they disappear.” 

Are they going to? Pity. I was looking at the possibility of getting a CEM25 as a portable mount.  

[Icesheet]

57 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

I recently sold almost everything. 2 scopes, guide setup, eyepieces, various bits and bobs. Not fell out of love with the hobby but constantly watching weather reports, lugging stuff in and out of the house, it kind of wears thin after a while, especially if the weather or transparency shows its futile after you've set everything up. I'm hoping to move house in the near future and a nice garden thats not bathed in the light of 3 streetlights would be a nice bonus. Then, I keep telling myself, I can set up a permanent system, whether it be a shed or pod or just a pier.

Until then though, I have kept my CEM25P as its a good one (I regretted selling my AZEQ6 prior to this as that was also a good one), my Canon 6D and a Canon 135mm lens. Such a simple setup, its a joy to just throw it out on the slabs in the garden, quick alignment and just leave the camera snapping away on target and not worry about laptops, guiding, cables, hubs etc.

Ps, the CEM25P will cope happily with a 102mm F7 scope at approx 7kg so should be OK with an Esprit 100 unless they are much heavier? The CEM's are tricky to balance though, not as simple as a SW EQ.

 

Thanks, I vaguely remember a post along these lines, I'm guessing it was yours. Good to know you are happy with the mount and don't seem to regret selling all your gear! Looks like you are making good use of it too. Were you imaging with that 102mm? Did the extra load deteriorate the guiding? The Esprit is ~6.5kg but with all equipment I'll be around 8.5kg.  

[Icesheet]

1 hour ago, Adreneline said:

I use a Samyang 135mm with an ASI1600 on an iOptron CEM25-EC and it is perfect for me especially now it is all controlled by an ASIair. I too had an NEQ6-Pro and ED80DS and in the end got tired of lugging it out, setting up and then lugging it all back in at the end of a session. At a push I can pick up the current setup in one go and be out and imaging in 15 minutes having polar aligned with a PoleMaster. @Skipper Billy's setup looks great and I may well take that route once we've moved house in a few months time.

I've just purchased a GSO RC 6" - I needed a challenge - which will push the CEM25 close to it's limits but should give me the opportunity to image some of the smaller nebula targets. I just need some clear nights so I can get to try it out!

Good luck!

Adrian

Sounds ideal to me! The ASI air seems very popular too. I would be interested to hear how you get on with the GSO RC. That will be a real test at that focal length, I imagine they are not that light either.

[Icesheet]

1 hour ago, Jiggy 67 said:

I have the same mount and I agree it is a heavy cumbersome beast, I genuinely believe that this is not a mount to be lugging in and out of the house for every session, it simply isn’t practical . As a result I left my mount and scope out all last winter under a Telegizmos 365 cover.

I have not suffered any ill effects.....yet, I remove the cover as often as possible to air but the tripod means it’s open at the bottom anyway for ventilation. I also spray a good anti corrosion protective over the mount. 

I can be observing in 15 minutes, no PA or star alignment as the mount hasn’t moved and I just start from park position 
 

 

 

Definitely not practical or fun! I had a look at the Telegizmos covers there. They look really good but I'm still not sure I could bring myself to leave everything outside like that for an extended period! Does it stop moisture condensing on your equipment? I think I would actually get one anyway if I went down the mini obs route. Looks like a good extra layer of protection.

[Icesheet]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

“The other option I'm considering is buying a CEM25p before they disappear.” 

Are they going to? Pity. I was looking at the possibility of getting a CEM25 as a portable mount.  

I can't confirm that but FLO have them as unavailable and I read a post on here I think that they are being discontinued. They don't actually seem to be in stock anywhere just now.

[Ouroboros]

40 minutes ago, Icesheet said:

I can't confirm that but FLO have them as unavailable and I read a post on here I think that they are being discontinued. They don't actually seem to be in stock anywhere just now.

Yes, I too had noticed that FLO has them as unavailable. And this 

 

[Icesheet]

Yeah that's the one I read. That might rule out one option straight away!

[Ouroboros]

There’s the iOptron GEM45.  Slightly heavier at 7.2 kg than the CEM25, but much lighter than the EQ-6 R.

[Icesheet]

2 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

There’s the iOptron GEM45.  Slightly heavier at 7.2 kg than the CEM25, but much lighter than the EQ-6 R.

Yeah, I was actually deciding between the CEM40, CEM60 and EQ6-R at the time. That's when I thought weight wouldn't be an issue and because there were good reports and it was significantly cheaper I plumped for that. Don't know if I could stretch to it now, considering I'll have to take a hit on the EQ6-R if I sell.

[Ouroboros]

So is the GEM series replacing the CEMs? 
 

The GEM45 looks like a nice mount. Nearly 2 grand in a case though. And the iOptron GEM45-EC German Equatorial GoTo Mount with RA Encoder is almost another thousand pounds. Is that worth it for the RA encoder? 

[Icesheet]

No the GEM and CEM are different product lines. GEM for German Equatorial Mount and CEM for Centre balanced mount I believe. With regards to the RA encoder there seems to be a bit of debate whether they are worthwhile. Couldn't really say myself.

[Jiggy 67]

1 hour ago, Icesheet said:

Definitely not practical or fun! I had a look at the Telegizmos covers there. They look really good but I'm still not sure I could bring myself to leave everything outside like that for an extended period! Does it stop moisture condensing on your equipment? I think I would actually get one anyway if I went down the mini obs route. Looks like a good extra layer of protection.

I wouldn’t say that it suffers too much from condensation, it is open at the bottom but yes it can happen. I work on the premise that this equipment is designed to be used outside as much as possible and not for sitting in the house which I know is what it would be doing if I had to drag it in and out all the time

[Icesheet]

Thanks for all the replies! In a way the decision has been made for me. Turns out I need neighbours permission to even put a small shed  up and that’s not worth the hassle if we plan to move in next year or two. 
 

I put the EQ6-R up for sale and have some solid interest so I put an order in for the CEM25P. Going to put it on a Berlebach UNI tripod I have. 
I don’t think this setup will handle the Esprit 100 so I might be looking for a good 80mm scope soon. I was thinking the Esprit 80 but if anyone has any other suggestions happy to hear them!

[Craig a]

I know this is an oldish thread now but I’m in the Uk and my rig has been outside permanently for the last 2 years under a telescope cover, its been through many storms with horrendous rain also down to -7, blazing sun and still looks like the day I set it outside, the telegizmos 365 is an excellent bit of kit. It covers my Newtonian on a neq6 sat on the moveable skywatcher peir, best thing I ever did with my rig. Only thing I take inside is the main camera after a session, my guide cam has been attached for them two years also and still good as new 

[Icesheet]

22 hours ago, Craig a said:

I know this is an oldish thread now but I’m in the Uk and my rig has been outside permanently for the last 2 years under a telescope cover, its been through many storms with horrendous rain also down to -7, blazing sun and still looks like the day I set it outside, the telegizmos 365 is an excellent bit of kit. It covers my Newtonian on a neq6 sat on the moveable skywatcher peir, best thing I ever did with my rig. Only thing I take inside is the main camera after a session, my guide cam has been attached for them two years also and still good as new 

Thanks, there’s been a lot of good words about the telegizmo covers now. Maybe I jumped the gun a bit but I have already sold the EQ6-R. Ordered a CEM25p, cancelled that and ordered a CEM40! 
 

Should I decide to keep stuff outside I will definitely look at the telegizmos!