Make me see sense - Frac purchase

[wormix]

Evening all,

I am looking to replace my 150pds with a frac and am currently considering 3 separate OTAs;

Evostar 72ed 

Evostar 80ed

WO Zenithstar 73

I’m very much a beginner in the AP world, having been hooked last winter using my newt and 450d. I have purchased a guide scope / cam ready for the “new season” and as part of that prep I thought I might want to dabble in wider field - hence the new purchase. 
 

Financially speaking I can afford all 3 of these plus flatteners, etc, but in reality am I going to see much difference in end product at my level?  I have no intention of moving away from my DSLR at this point so the only change will be the optics. 
 

My head is saying go for the Evostar 72, whilst the heart is all out for the Zenithstar. I guess if I go Evo 72 then I would probably upgrade in a year or 2 so it’s likely just a stepping stone.  The Evo 80 is in there as a halfway house, although addition of the flattener makes it fairly pricey.  
 

thoughts?

[Icesheet]

I can’t say anything about any of the scopes personally but perhaps you should think of what exactly you want from wide field. 
 

Your 150PDS is 750mm FL I believe? The 80ED is 600mm native. Not sure what the FF/reducer brings it to but maybe it won’t be as wide as you want?

 

The Evo72 and Zenithstar are 420-430mm native. With reducer you’re probably at 300 something. That will open up a whole lot more to you. 
 

You should check what you can frame with each of them and your camera. Will maybe make the decision a bit easier!

http://astronomy.tools

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Icesheet
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[newbie alert]

Your 150PDS is 750mm FL I believe? The 80ED is 600mm native. Not sure what the FF/reducer brings it to but maybe it won’t be as wide as you want?

With the skywatcher .85 reducer/ flattener the focal length is reduced to 510mm

I've had issues with William optics focuser before and they wasn't interested in helping me getting it fixed so won't be buying that brand anymore..

If you say you could afford all 3 why not dive in deep and get a triplet, abit more money but far better performance 

you don't say what mount you're using.. AP is built from the ground up, it's all in the mount

[wormix]

4 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Your 150PDS is 750mm FL I believe? The 80ED is 600mm native. Not sure what the FF/reducer brings it to but maybe it won’t be as wide as you want?

With the skywatcher .85 reducer/ flattener the focal length is reduced to 510mm

I've had issues with William optics focuser before and they wasn't interested in helping me getting it fixed so won't be buying that brand anymore..

If you say you could afford all 3 why not dive in deep and get a triplet, abit more money but far better performance 

you don't say what mount you're using.. AP is built from the ground up, it's all in the mount

I have a HEQ5 pro so mount is sorted - supposed to hear about WO customer service as have heard elsewhere that they are very good. I guess it’s luck of the draw. 
 

Re triplet - the ZS is pushing my upper limit and am struggling to justify it vs the 72ed so spending more is not an option. 
 

I think I’m going to settle on the 72ed and play for a few years and see how I go, but every now and then I get an overwhelming desire for the WO

[newbie alert]

3 hours ago, wormix said:

3 hours ago, newbie alert said:

 

I have a HEQ5 pro so mount is sorted - supposed to hear about WO customer service as have heard elsewhere that they are very good. I guess it’s luck of the draw

My issue was that something went pop and a few bearings fell out of the focuser ... it was a 10 year anniversary model and they said that they wouldn't have the components for it anymore.. not only that it was suffering from focuser sag that I was chasing my tail thinking it was flex somewhere... 

[fwm891]

I have a W.O. ZS73 with the Flat 73A field flattener.

Superb little scope, the FF will easily cover the APS-C formats and almost cover my full frame Nikon D800E.

Attached is with a Nikon D5100 DX (APS-C) format.

[Shimrod]

4 hours ago, wormix said:

I have a HEQ5 pro so mount is sorted - supposed to hear about WO customer service as have heard elsewhere that they are very good. I guess it’s luck of the draw. 
 

Re triplet - the ZS is pushing my upper limit and am struggling to justify it vs the 72ed so spending more is not an option. 
 

I think I’m going to settle on the 72ed and play for a few years and see how I go, but every now and then I get an overwhelming desire for the WO

Depending on your DSLR, you may want to check on the performance of the focuser on the 72ed - I have read it can struggle to hold heavy cameras in place at/near the zenith. The same also applies to the 80ed. I added a Baader Steeltrack to my 80ed but that ups the cost of the scope considerably, and that may make the WO Zenithstar 73 a more attractive option. There's also very long wait times for Skywatcher kit at the moment - it might be easier to find WO scopes if you want something now!

[Jkulin]

I bought one of these, beautifully engineered, a real pleasure to hold: -

https://www.altairastro.com/altair-70-ed-triplet-apo-refractor-telescope-2418-p.asp

[TerryMcK]

1 hour ago, fwm891 said:

I have a W.O. ZS73 with the Flat 73A field flattener.

Superb little scope, the FF will easily cover the APS-C formats and almost cover my full frame Nikon D800E.

Attached is with a Nikon D5100 DX (APS-C) format.

+1 on Francis' observations on the WO ZS73. It is a superb scope and the dedicated field flattener is not a reducer so you get 430mm focal length.

Never had an issue with the focuser nor anything else on it.

[Martthebass]

Regarding WO, I had a GT81 anniversary edition and it was a Crayford focusser.  As far as I know all of the latest models are a good quality R&P; the unit on my GT71 is smooth and has no problems.

[wormix]

Cheers all, have read about issues with the SW focuser - currently have a 450d but considering changing it for an Astro modified something else, but likely that would be a 600d or similar so not hugely heavy but it does give me pause.

Timings wise I’m in no huge rush - playing the long game ready for the winter nights.  
 

The ZS would make me very happy, but maybe I would just end up stroking it all the time rather than imaging......

 

[wormix]

Is there any reason why you couldn’t use the OVL flattener in the ZS?  At £100 less it could steer me that way. 

[newbie alert]

14 hours ago, wormix said:

 

The ZS would make me very happy, but maybe I would just end up stroking it all the time rather than imaging......

 

You made me ping another email over to them, just to see if it could be fixed if I sent the whole focuser unit over to them in Taiwan,  Tim said , if there's missing bearings it cannot be fixed, and then recommended buying a moonlite as he's heard that they fit ...

Great customer service 

[wormix]

2 hours ago, newbie alert said:

You made me ping another email over to them, just to see if it could be fixed if I sent the whole focuser unit over to them in Taiwan,  Tim said , if there's missing bearings it cannot be fixed, and then recommended buying a moonlite as he's heard that they fit ...

Great customer service 

That's such a shame - can it not be used at all at the moment?  Have you tried dismantling yourself to see if you can repair?

Just found your scope and its a stunner

[newbie alert]

11 hours ago, wormix said:

That's such a shame - can it not be used at all at the moment?  Have you tried dismantling yourself to see if you can repair?

Just found your scope and its a stunner

Its too nice to just be sat in a box for near enough a year now, but I'm now just using a esprit ..

I can lock the focus 

This one..

[wormix]

Did a search on that particular model and the original sale post for your scope popped up first. 
 

It’s a stunner of a scope and as you say, too nice to be stuck in a box. There must be someone who can effect a repair on it if it’s just the bearings - it’s just finding the right someone I guess. 

[newbie alert]

Yep, but William optics aren't intersted

[AstroPhil]

My first Frac was a ZS71 and I still use it a lot (my dedicated imaging rig with the reducer/flattener). Never used the Evostar but they get good reviews as well. Tough choice!

[wormix]

I am currently sitting in a camping field looking at a clearing sky and had a moment of clarity. 
 

I have therefore just pulled the trigger on the 72ED with FLO as I think the quality vs price match my current ambitions and allow me to grow into a pricier scope in a few years 

 

Of course, due to long lead times I have plenty of time to change my mind and cancel the purchase! And @newbie alert, if you consider selling that WO then let me know as I may fancy some diy....
 

Cheers all for helping me to clarify my thoughts. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by wormix

[Adam J]

On 27/07/2020 at 16:25, wormix said:

Is there any reason why you couldn’t use the OVL flattener in the ZS?  At £100 less it could steer me that way. 

No reason why you could not use the OVL flattner in the ZS at all just dont expect it to work with a full frame camera like the WO one will. Also expect to have to fiddle with the back spacing to get it to work correctly.

Adam

Edited July 29, 2020 by Adam J

[ollypenrice]

On 28/07/2020 at 22:22, newbie alert said:

Yep, but William optics aren't intersted

William Optics is a fashion house with new scopes for the catwalk every season.

Olly

[newbie alert]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

William Optics is a fashion house with new scopes for the catwalk every season.

Olly

So I've found out Olly..

[Adam J]

On 26/07/2020 at 22:12, wormix said:

Evening all,

I am looking to replace my 150pds with a frac and am currently considering 3 separate OTAs;

Evostar 72ed 

Evostar 80ed

WO Zenithstar 73

I would not really regard any of those three as a direct refractor replacement for a 150PDS anyway. At 750mm the 150PDS is a world away from a 400-500mm focal length refractor in terms of what you will be imaging. For a direct replacement you are really looking at a 100-120mm refractor.

Adam

Edited July 30, 2020 by Adam J

[wormix]

4 minutes ago, Adam J said:

I would not really regard any of those three as a direct refractor replacement for a 150PDS anyway. At 750mm the 150PDS is a world away from a 400-500mm focal length refractor in terms of what you will be imaging. For a direct replacement you are really looking at a 100-120mm refractor.

Adam

Thanks Adam, am aware - was looking to move away from the narrower field of the PDS to wider field.   

[PEMS]

I have a 72ED and really am not impressed with it. The scope to my mind does what it should but only just, and I expect it to not do things at some stage - I use it for visual and the focus travel is one area of concern. It is wound well in with an eyepiece and you will need more inward travel with a camera and especially a DSLR.

William optics seem to have gone very much for the imaging scope approach and so have in many ways targetted their scope at imaging. Just feel you would be safer with a WO ZS73. You also have somewhat dedicated flatteners for the WO items. Never been exactly sure that the Skywatchers are entirely dedicated to their scope or just happen to be suitable.

It is an area where I suggest there is a lot less chance of having problems with the WO then with the Skywatcher.