The elusive M33

[themos]

I had the 12" Dob out tonight, clear as a bell. Thought I'd hunt down that M33, the Triangulum galaxy that's quite an extended object, Cartes du Ciel gives it 68.7'x 41.6' and mag 5.70 but with a Surface Brightness: 14.20

To cut a long story short, the 10x50 Lidl Bresser "specials" could pick it up as a slight brightening of the sky background

My SW finderscope could not be persuaded to repeat that feat. I did figure out a way to adjust the finderscope for my nearsightedness, though: one unscrews the dewshield a bit and then tightens the front ring or the opposite. Now I can use it without glasses. I hope it's going to be an improvement.

The Wixey did not help, sadly. I had a Plossl 32mm eyepiece in, hoping that the lowest power possible will make the galaxy more apparent. I could see nothing in the eyepiece. Didn't try the Nagler 12mm. I do remember seeing it last year, though, almost by accident, but I can't remember if it was with the 4.5" or the 12".

I am convinced that the best finder for me would be a green laser attached to the dob but I would be using binoculars to see where the green dot ends up. If the target is too faint for the 10x50s, you upgrade to x70, simple!

[thing]

I had my first view ever after looking for years of M33 visually tonight with a 2" 33 mil Swan in my 8" Newt so it must have been ultra clear as at the moment it sits in my most LP bit of sky. Some people reckon this is a naked eye object at a dark site........... :shock:

[MikeP]

Spent an hour trying to find it tonight with my 12" dob. Tried 32mm Meade 5000 and 20mm Pentax XW but no luck. Trees didn't help but it should have been visible.

Glad its not only me that has problems.

Mike

[kev1204]

No luck for me tonight either. I saw it once with the 12" a few weeks back but not since even though I've hunted for it regulary.Could see M31 with naked eye which is unusual for my location (town)

P.S. great seeing tonight!

[Talitha]

a slight brightening of the sky background

That's what it looks like through my 11x70s, too. I've heard more than a few reports of people seeing it naked-eye at the Black Forest Star Party (iirc Wart Hog's been there), but I've never been able to do it from my land and my sky's pretty good (the eyes are another story ).

[Astronut]

...Some people reckon this is a naked eye object at a dark site........... :shock:

I guess it is but not with my eyes. It was easily visible at the recent Salisbury SP in my 10x50's. I've always known exactly where it is so I pointed the bins at that part of the sky and there it was with direct vision. I'd never seen it up to then. Pity the 'scope was dewed up at that point - I would have liked to have got a closer look.

[kniclander]

Under very dark skies I've seen M33 easily in my 6" newt - it was very large (ie M31 size but rounder) and faintish but obvious and easy to find. I think the secret is very dark skies.

[Doc]

No luck for me either.

Spent another 30 minutes trying to find it. I know i was in the right place but the surface brightness is so low it never pops out.

[asteria]

It's very tricky - I've seen it in 10x50s but only from a very dark site. I've never spotted it from my backyard.

Ed

[lunator]

I've never seen it from my garden in London but from Kelling it was easy to find.

[Brass n glass]

One of the most tricksy objects there is. Definitely one for dark skies, but even then I've always been impressed by the way it just switches off and disappears if you replace a low-power eyepiece with a high-power one - Hugh

[part timer]

I've seen it (as a slight but definite brightening of the sky) from my back yard in 8x56 binoculars. From the country side it was shockingly easy and absolutely huge in my old 10x50's. I have never seen it telescopically as the increased magnification dimmed it too much.

It really is the most sensitive object to light pollution that I know of.

[John]

On a great night last year I was able to see M33 in 8x40 binoculars from my garden - that's the best I have managed. It is visable as an indistinct hazy patch in my 4" and 8" scopes on most half decent nights. I imagine that you would need a lot of aperture to see it as any more than that.

John

[Plastic chicken]

It practically taps you on the shoulder at Keilder!!!!!

PC

[saturn5]

Some people reckon this is a naked eye object at a dark site........... :shock:

At my work out in the country the only LP is a slight glow low down to the North from the town 10 miles away.Given good skies it is a naked eye object,its faint but seeable.

From my garden in the early hours when neighbours have switched their lights off under very good conditions i have seen it unaided too.

Can usually pic it up in my 9x50 finderscope,knowing exactly where to look is must because unlike M31 your not going to notice it if you sweep past to quickly.

I generally use M31 as a seeing guide,if its not very prominent then i dont bother looking for M33.

[MikeP]

Saw it last night - I think.

Starjumper and I visited Lightbucket (Sam) where the skies are fairly dark. Sam found it with his 16" Lightbridge and then found it for me with my FlexTube 12". I can honestly say I would never never never have found it - I could barely make out anything - it was only with averted vision and bumping the OTA that I could tell there was something there. We did look again later when it was higher up and it was a little easier to see but still very faint.

Sam repeated the trick for M74. If you think M33 is difficult, M74 is in another league. Even using the averted vision / bumping the OTA trick again I think I more imagined that saw something. I'll tick them both off my list but with a small tick for M74.

Mike

[Doc]

I've often looked for both 33 and 74 but to no avail.

I've got the same scope as Sam so it should be possible.

How dark was your skies mike.

Mine are normally mag 3.5 to 4

Also was you using a filter if so which one.

[Sam]

Like Mike said we had a great night last night trying to get a view of M33 and M74. I think with galaxy observing it's 70% equipment and seeing and 30% imagination. For me M33 stood out quite well as a broad area of bright smudge and after a while a bit of knottiness (that might be a new word!) was starting to come through, though that might have been because I was expecting to see that rather than actually seeing it. I think with these faint ones there's a lot of interpretation between the eye and the brain.

M74 was a whole different ball game. This was really tricky - and a bit smaller than M33. It certainly didn't stand out as much as M33 but was picked up by sweeping past it - as the movement tended to highlight the broad area of brightening. I think the more you look at these super faint fuzzies the more you know what to expect and the easier they are to find and the eye might get used to the very low variation in contrast.

I don't know how dark my skies are - we could see the milky way really clearly but since I don't wear my glasses when observing everything looks fuzzy until I focus in the eyepiece

Sam

[MikeP]

Sam is head and shoulders better than me at finding faint objects and I have reasonably good eyesight - no disrespect but probably better than Sam's for normal everyday purposes other than reading. We were using the same scope under the same skies so it must be down to age and pupils not dilating as much and hence not admitting as much light.

We did talk about how good the sky was but none of us knew how to estimate. I have a chart that I can use that is based on how many Ursa Minor stars are visible but I didn't have it with me. It is something I must get into the habit of doing and starting to record my observations properly - bit like the trainspotting I used to do as a kid (there's a confession).

I don't think we used any filters in any of the scopes last night.

Mike

[Doc]

Cheers Mike.

How I estimate is just look with the naked eye at the star that is just visible and look up that stars magnitude.

Not scientific in anyway but a good guess at what mag skies you are under.

[mike.brightmore]

I cannot see M33 visually from my light polluted garden either through binoculars or a telescope. The only way I can see it live is to replace the eyepiece with a webcam, use a f/3.3 focal reducer and plug the webcam AV lead into portable TV set. Its better than nothing and this technique works for many other faint DSOs.

[Azelfafage]

Tried & failed the other night :crybaby:

If you look back at some of my previous posts you'll see this is quite a hobby horse of mine.

A