APM ED152 APO F8 and Takahashi FC100-DF

[DRT]

2 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

 

I am more than happy with the stock focuser on the Equinox version on the SW 120ed. Have never thought of an "upgrade" 

But obviously if you are spending many many thousands on a Tak, then should you need to upgrade from a stock focuser. I don't think you should. But maybe if Tak did redesigned the focuser it would become so expensive to buy the new "improved" version, then it would push the scope out of the market for being just to expensive, as they are already at a premium price IMO.

SW do seem to produce such a great range of scopes now ,from the entry level, ed , esprit. Something for everyone?

 

 

Agreed, but it is interesting that Tak scopes are sold with the option to upgrade to FT focusers from new. SW should do similar IMHO. The entry level OTAs and optics are fantastic and wouldn't it be nice to be given the option to replace the wobbly, soft, cast aluminium bits with better stuff for just a few quid more?

Something that puzzles me is the ED pro range. SW sell a great upgrade for only £130. Put the bloody thing on the scope when you sell it!

Rant over. 

Is it time for a beer yet? ? ?

[John]

9 minutes ago, DRT said:

Agreed, but it is interesting that Tak scopes are sold with the option to upgrade to FT focusers from new. SW should do similar IMHO. The entry level OTAs and optics are fantastic and wouldn't it be nice to be given the option to replace the wobbly, soft, cast aluminium bits with better stuff for just a few quid more?

Something that puzzles me is the ED pro range. SW sell a great upgrade for only £130. Put the bloody thing on the scope when you sell it!

Rant over. 

Is it time for a beer yet? ? ?

Isn't that what Skywatcher are doing with the forthcoming ED150 Pro refractor ? - my understanding is that 2 trim levels will be availble, the basic, which I guess will be similar to the current Evostar ED Pro range, and a higher cost version with a better focuser, CNC tube rings and maybe some other upgrades included.

Not sure that both versions will be available everywhere though ?

[Stu]

15 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

But maybe if Tak did redesigned the focuser it would become so expensive to buy the new "improved" version, then it would push the scope out of the market for being just to expensive, as they are already at a premium price IMO.

That's the silly thing Simon, I just don't think there is any need for the Tak focuser to cost any more, I just think they need to redesign it to avoid these issues. Fundamentally, it just seems they are prone to coming loose and not performing as a premium focuser should. Like the APM scopes, the Taks should come with a premium level dual speed focuser for their current price.

[DRT]

1 minute ago, Stu said:

Like the APM scopes, the Taks should come with a premium level dual speed focuser for their current price.

Exactly.

[Stargazer McCabe]

9 minutes ago, DRT said:

Agreed, but it is interesting that Tak scopes are sold with the option to upgrade to FT focusers from new

Derek, may I enquire who provides this option ? I contacted FLO, Nick Hudson and Ian King in advance of placing the order for my FC-100. While FLO could source a Feathertouch as an after purchase option, neither of the others in the uk offered a Feathertouch option...

The only route to a Feathertouch I found was to purchase the FC-100 and remove the stock focuser. 

Where might you be aware of @DRT that this Feathertouch instead of stock option is available please ?

[DRT]

Ian King has for some considerable time listed this as an option for all of the Tak scopes he sells. Having just checked it appears he has stopped doing that. I know not why.

Clearly I was wrong and the retailers now think everyone should be happy with a wobbly focuser so long as it is green  

 

{To all reading this. Anyone who wishes to go off on one about the rights and wrongs of Taks or their focusers are politely invited to find another thread or take a holiday on Cloudy Nights.I just want to enjoy my new stuff. Thank you ? }

[DRT]

28 minutes ago, John said:

Isn't that what Skywatcher are doing with the forthcoming ED150 Pro refractor ? - my understanding is that 2 trim levels will be availble, the basic, which I guess will be similar to the current Evostar ED Pro range, and a higher cost version with a better focuser, CNC tube rings and maybe some other upgrades included.

Not sure that both versions will be available everywhere though ?

I really hope that is true, John. Purchasers of new equipment (of any sort) should not be expected to accept the cheap stock items and then pay the full retail price of any upgrades they wish to choose at the point of sale. Imagine if that happened in the car industry?  

[John]

15 minutes ago, DRT said:

I really hope that is true, John. Purchasers of new equipment (of any sort) should not be expected to accept the cheap stock items and then pay the full retail price of any upgrades they wish to choose at the point of sale. Imagine if that happened in the car industry?  

If you buy something that simply is unuseable, you can return it for a full refund as I understand it ?

I suppose the problems start when something is not as good as we think it ought to be. Much more difficult to deal with that because, as is evendent from forums like this, we have a wide range of tolerances. What one person might find to be poor and unsatisfactory, another may find fine. For example, I've seen reports on eyepieces that I've thought to be badly corrected at F/6.5 where the user is quite happy with the performance in an F/5 scope and sees no issues. False colour seems to have a wide range of tolerances as well.

I don't know the answers to this other than to read lots of opinions on forums and to try things out for myself where possible.

 

[DRT]

42 minutes ago, Stu said:

I just don't think there is any need for the Tak focuser to cost any more, I just think they need to redesign it to avoid these issues.

I think this scope demonstrates that point very nicely: https://www.altairastro.com/starwave-102mm-f11-achromat-refractor-telescope-with-2-crayford-focuser.html

An excellent scope (I know, I have owned two) that costs about the same as a Tak cradle and balance bar and it has a focuser that is better than the standard Tak by a country mile.

 

 

[DRT]

4 minutes ago, John said:

If you buy something that simply is unuseable, you can return it for a full refund as I understand it ?

I'm not talking about unusable kit here, John. The focuser I have on my Tak is very useable. What I am talking about is that I think producers of any device should at least provide the option for the purchaser to acquire components that are of similar or equally quality. The objective cell and lens of a Tak are Premier League. Is the focuser Premier League? No, I don't think anyone would argue that it is. Is the standard focuser on a SW ED120 in the same league as its objective lens? No, it isn't. For the APM and Altair Astro scopes I have owned the answer to that question is yes they are. That is my point.

My secondary point is that if the purchaser of a new device wants to opt for a better accessory they should not be forced to pay for and keep the one they didn't want. If I buy a new car and take 19" wheels instead of 17" wheels I do not pay the full retail price of the upgrade, nor do I have to keep and sell the standard equipment on the second hand market at a huge loss.

Oh, damn!

I think I might need to send myself off to Cloudy Nights soon   

[John]

I take your points Derek.

But it does beg the question, are those who find the stock Tak focuser good (like myself, after slight adjustment) wrong, lacking in discerning nature or influenced by better experiences than you have had with your example ?

 

 

 

 

[DRT]

8 minutes ago, John said:

I take your points Derek.

But it does beg the question, are those who find the stock Tak focuser good (like myself, after slight adjustment) wrong, lacking in discerning nature or influeced by  better experiences than you have had ?

No. One thing that I have learned here and in other hobbies is that no one is right or wrong. Each of us have own preferences and tolerances and should be allowed to air them without fear of unwanted/unwarranted criticism from others. I happen to really like big solid dual-speed focusers. Takahashi hasn't given me one so it is up to me as to whether or not I want to buy one somewhere else. Others might be justifiably happy with what Takahashi, or Skywatcher, or Seben or Toys R Us** provide, and that is for them to judge for themselves.

My ire is in no way directed at the diverse group of consumers who frequent this place, it is directed at the producers and retailers who limit our options and make money out of supplying mediocre kit that I and others cannot opt not to pay for if we want the device we desire  

 

 

PS: That list is not intended to imply they are all the same!!  

[JeremyS]

17 minutes ago, DRT said:

The focuser I have on my Tak is very useable.

I might be losing the plot here, but your video suggests otherwise, Derek. At least not in it's current state.  Surely it would be worth tackling it so at least you can enjoy it before your replacement comes. You might even find you like it, like many of us do.  ?

 

[Stu]

10 minutes ago, John said:

I take your points Derek.

But it does beg the question, are those who find the stock Tak focuser good (like myself, after slight adjustment) wrong, lacking in discerning nature or influenced by better experiences than you have had with your example ?

John, surely no more or less than saying those who want to upgrade are doing so just to keep up with the jones's?

I those that upgrade do so for valid reasons, these things are not cheap after all.

[DRT]

2 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

I might be losing the plot here, but your video suggests otherwise, Derek. At least not in it's current state.  Surely it would be worth tackling it so at least you can enjoy it before your replacement comes. You might even find you like it, like many of us do.  ?

Jeremy, I am beginning to think that any thread that includes the word Takahashi causes everyone to lose the plot  

As I said in the post with the video the action of the focuser is tight and smooth, it is just the control wheels that wobble.

My MoonLite adapter arrives on Tuesday. I will fit that and get it working, and then fiddle with the Tak focuser. In that way I ensure I don't end up with no working options.

[DRT]

We have a definitive answer. The Wood Pigeon says the Tak focuser looks fine...

 

[John]

25 minutes ago, Stu said:

John, surely no more or less than saying those who want to upgrade are doing so just to keep up with the jones's?

 

No Stu, not at all. I'm not saying that.

Some folks (few probably) upgrade because they just want the nicest stuff they can get, some because they find the stock item unsatisfactory in some ways, and some don't upgrade because the stock item is OK for them or that they don't want to invest any more. All perfectly valid options of course

If we did not share our varying experiences and choices, it would not be much of a forum, would it ?

 

 

[DRT]

8 minutes ago, John said:

Some folks (few probably) upgrade because they just want the nicest stuff they can get 

That is me.

[Chris]

Sorry to hear you're having problems Derek, I've just seen your video of the focuser and that wheel looks like my 6 year olds wobbly tooth! It would bug me too adjusted miles out like that  

Anyway, I hope the objective end very much makes up for it until you get it upgraded. 

  

[Stu]

26 minutes ago, John said:

No Stu, not at all. I'm not saying that.

Some folks (few probably) upgrade because they just want the nicest stuff they can get, some because they find the stock item unsatisfactory in some ways, and some don't upgrade because the stock item is OK for them or that they don't want to invest any more. All perfectly valid options of course

If we did not share our varying experiences and choices, it would not be much of a forum, would it ? 

 

 

For me it's probably none of those exactly John. The standard focuser is probably ok, but it didn't match the pleasure of looking through the scope. Call that wanting the nicest I could get if you like, but it was certainly not through any desire to keep up with anyone else. I largely observe alone so why would I care what anyone else thinks? When I want the most delicate of tweaks on the fine focuser whilst observing a planet it is me I'm trying to please.

Your last statement is totally correct, which makes it all the more important not to put down others reasons for making a certain decision, surely?

[iPeace]

19 minutes ago, DRT said:

In that way I ensure I don't end up with no working options. 

Oh, goodness no. Imagine having to slum it with just the APM...

I'm happy for you, Derek, you've got it all. A pile of fab scopes and eyepieces, a Berlebach-mounted wood pigeon and still plenty of DIY / TLC to do to stave off boredom. You must feel like a dog with two...bones.

I'm with you both ways on the focuser - that wobble would drive me nuts, and an FT sure is nice.

From focusers to prisms to whatever, the Tak brand is pretty divisive.

Anyway, the crucial bit at the front seems to be getting it done, so stick a Moonlite on for the time being and enjoy the magic.

Why not use the red one, and get some matching...never mind.

 

[DRT]

22 minutes ago, iPeace said:

Why not use the red one, and get some matching...never mind.

 

Don't go there!  

[iPeace]

1 minute ago, DRT said:

Don't go there!  

Coat is on.

[DRT]

29 minutes ago, Lockie said:

Sorry to hear you're having problems Derek

Chris, if these count as "problems" they are very much "first world problems"

As I have said many times on this forum I count myself exceptionally lucky to be in a position to buy this stuff. I don't so it with any sense of boasting, I do it because I can, I enjoy it, and I think some others enjoy hearing about the experiences I am lucky enough to have in owning this stuff.

If you want a list of "problems", we need a different forum  

Cheers

Derek

[John]

23 minutes ago, Stu said:

Your last statement is totally correct, which makes it all the more important not to put down others reasons for making a certain decision, surely?

When have I put down others Stu ?

My posts here are intended to share, enquire or enthuse as best I can. If I felt that I could not do any of those I would stop posting.

Anyway, I hope Derek enjoys his fine scopes and finds remedies for any issues that need to be improved