4mm Ortho

[Littleguy80]

I’ve decided to get myself a 4mm Ortho to give me another step up in magnification for double stars and planetary. A 5mm BGO is currently my highest mag eyepiece. A bit of reading around suggests the University Optics HD Ortho in 4mm is particularly good. Anyone have experience with this eyepiece or have suggestions of other Orthos to look for? It’s good to have a few options when looking secondhand  

[JeremyS]

18 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

Anyone have experience with this eyepiece or have suggestions of other Orthos to look for?

I find the Fujiyama HD Orthoscopic 4 mm Eyepiece to be good. Great value too

[jetstream]

13 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

I’ve decided to get myself a 4mm Ortho to give me another step up in magnification for double stars and planetary. A 5mm BGO is currently my highest mag eyepiece. A bit of reading around suggests the University Optics HD Ortho in 4mm is particularly good. Anyone have experience with this eyepiece or have suggestions of other Orthos to look for? It’s good to have a few options when looking secondhand  

I have a superb copy of the plain old 4mm volcano top UO ortho Neil which soundly beats my 5mm KK ortho. This 4mm is in my "best" pile of eyepieces which includes some pretty good ones. There is sample to sample variation in this price range of eyepieces IMHO.

I was using the UO 4mm tonight along with the Vixen HR 2.4mm on the moon with the H130 under superb conditions- the H130 went 270x razor sharp and so far I have not reached its mag limit. Some say the old Circle T volcano tops are a step down from the HD variety but I put differences down to the sample you get ( I have many). If Vixen comes out with some longer FL HR's put a few pennies aside and pick them up Neil....

[Littleguy80]

3 hours ago, jetstream said:

I have a superb copy of the plain old 4mm volcano top UO ortho Neil which soundly beats my 5mm KK ortho. This 4mm is in my "best" pile of eyepieces which includes some pretty good ones. There is sample to sample variation in this price range of eyepieces IMHO.

I was using the UO 4mm tonight along with the Vixen HR 2.4mm on the moon with the H130 under superb conditions- the H130 went 270x razor sharp and so far I have not reached its mag limit. Some say the old Circle T volcano tops are a step down from the HD variety but I put differences down to the sample you get ( I have many). If Vixen comes out with some longer FL HR's put a few pennies aside and pick them up Neil....

Thank you, Gerry. I was wondering whether the volcano top UO Ortho was also one to watch for. Sounds like it’s a bit of luck of the draw as to whether you get a good copy or not. That’s the nice thing about orthos though, low cost so not a big deal to pick up a few to try  

The results you have with the H130 never ceases to amaze me. If I find myself looking for a travel scope to go abroad with then I think it’d be the H130 every time!

Vixen are releasing a 3.4mm in the HR range so there’s hope for some longer FLs in the future  

[Timebandit]

 

The Fujiyama are a great high quality Ortho, the modern equivalent to the no longer available BGO

Another eyepiece which may be of interest, is the Vixen SLV/NLV range. These from my experience provide ortho like quality views but in a far more comfortable viewing experience, especially as you want a short focal ratio. With great eye relief of around 20mm and fov of view around 50d they are a cracking alternative to a true Ortho. And sensible money

I hope this helps ☺i

 

 

 

[Littleguy80]

10 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

 

The Fujiyama are a great high quality Ortho, the modern equivalent to the no longer available BGO

Another eyepiece which may be of interest, is the Vixen SLV/NLV range. These from my experience provide ortho like quality views but in a far more comfortable viewing experience, especially as you want a short focal ratio. With great eye relief of around 20mm and fov of view around 50d they are a cracking alternative to a true Ortho. And sensible money

I hope this helps ☺i

 

 

 

Thank you. Definitely helps! The SLVs seem to be popular. I’ll have to do some digging. Would be interesting to see if anyone has done any side by side testing of a SLV with a traditional Ortho

[John]

1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

Thank you. Definitely helps! The SLVs seem to be popular. I’ll have to do some digging. Would be interesting to see if anyone has done any side by side testing of a SLV with a traditional Ortho

I've done that comparison, at some length. The eyepieces were the 6mm Baader Genuine Ortho and the 6mm Vixen SLV. I reported on this in this report:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/312785-4mm-ortho/?_fromLogin=1#replyForm

I do have a 4mm HD ortho currently but I rarely use it because of the tiny eye lens and very tight eye relief. I prefer either the Pentax XW 3.5mm or the Tele Vue Nagler 2-4mm zoom for observing eye comfort (which I find improves what I can see). Most of my scopes are alt-az mounted and undriven so finding then holding a tiny eye lens and small AFoV in a flat black eyepiece top with around 2.5-3mm of eye relief, in the dark is darned hard work !

The 6mm SLV seemed to offer the peformance of the 6mm ortho with much more observer comfort so I imagine that the 4mm will as well.

YMMV of course

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

Thank you. Definitely helps! The SLVs seem to be popular. I’ll have to do some digging. Would be interesting to see if anyone has done any side by side testing of a SLV with a traditional Ortho

 

Funny you should ask that ☺

I have put my Research Grade Meade Ortho 4mm and the Vixen NLV 4mm ( predecessor to the SLV ) against each other in some limited enlightenment comparison. In my opinion optically they were very very close in sharpness and light transmission. But the RGMO is not exactly comfortable to use for any extended period. Your eye is very tight to the optics and gets uncomfortable and annoying for extended periods of observing. But the Vixen is just so comfortable to use, I know some people do not get on with the twist up eye cup. But I find it helps with eye placement and comfortable viewing. If I had to choose between the vixen and RGMO then it would be the vixen. Why? because you can spend longer at the eyepiece, more comfortable at the eyepiece and has sharp Ortho like optics. 

I hope that helps ☺

 

 

[25585]

Vixen LVW 3.5mm eps can still be bought, as can the 5mm. 

They are less expensive than Pentax XW, 5 deg less AFOV (so 65), same eye relief of 20mm & XW comfort. No twist up eye cup, but the traditional fold up/down type. 

I own both Pentax XW & Vixen LVW in 5mm, and find the latter slightly more comfortable. Optically I have not noticed any difference. 

[Littleguy80]

50 minutes ago, John said:

I've done that comparison, at some length. The eyepieces were the 6mm Baader Genuine Ortho and the 6mm Vixen SLV. I reported on this in this report:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/312785-4mm-ortho/?_fromLogin=1#replyForm

I do have a 4mm HD ortho currently but I rarely use it because of the tiny eye lens and very tight eye relief. I prefer either the Pentax XW 3.5mm or the Tele Vue Nagler 2-4mm zoom for observing eye comfort (which I find improves what I can see). Most of my scopes are alt-az mounted and undriven so finding then holding a tiny eye lens and small AFoV in a flat black eyepiece top with around 2.5-3mm of eye relief, in the dark is darned hard work !

The 6mm SLV seemed to offer the peformance of the 6mm ortho with much more observer comfort so I imagine that the 4mm will as well.

YMMV of course

Thank you, John. Excellent review! Your reports on seeing Titan last year are the inspiration for this eyepiece purchase! A 4mm gives me 300x in my dob which should be enough...I hope! 

I’m managing a 5mm BGO pretty well in a manual dob. The short eye relief on the 4mm was something that was on my mind though. 

It was this report on CN that prompted my thinking on the UO ortho:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/588856-tak-toe-4mm-vs-the-world/

[Littleguy80]

44 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

 

Funny you should ask that ☺

I have put my Research Grade Meade Ortho 4mm and the Vixen NLV 4mm ( predecessor to the SLV ) against each other in some limited enlightenment comparison. In my opinion optically they were very very close in sharpness and light transmission. But the RGMO is not exactly comfortable to use for any extended period. Your eye is very tight to the optics and gets uncomfortable and annoying for extended periods of observing. But the Vixen is just so comfortable to use, I know some people do not get on with the twist up eye cup. But I find it helps with eye placement and comfortable viewing. If I had to choose between the vixen and RGMO then it would be the vixen. Why? because you can spend longer at the eyepiece, more comfortable at the eyepiece and has sharp Ortho like optics. 

I hope that helps ☺

 

 

Very interesting! I just picked up a 7mm Meade RG Ortho. I’ve been told that I’m now allowed to play with it until my birthday though  

My eyepiece collection is turning into a collection of wide fields for DSOs and orthos for planetary and doubles. The SLVs almost sound too good to be true. Ortho performance and good eye relief!

[25585]

Look for a Vixen 4mm LV, the original. No twist up eye cup. 

[Timebandit]

1 hour ago, Littleguy80 said:

Very interesting! I just picked up a 7mm Meade RG Ortho. I’ve been told that I’m now allowed to play with it until my birthday though  

My eyepiece collection is turning into a collection of wide fields for DSOs and orthos for planetary and doubles. The SLVs almost sound too good to be true. Ortho performance and good eye relief!

 

The SLV/NLV are IMO a bit of a dark secret. They do not have the Televue name behind them ,but neither the price tag to match, but IMO they are up there with a number of quality eyepieces.  I use mine in the Frac , so I am not sure how they would perform in faster scopes . But I do have Pentax XW and I think the Pentax are overall slightly better. But we are talking slightly here. But the Pentax is at the top of its game and far more expensive. For the price point and in scopes that are not fast ,then I consider the SLV/NLV an excellent eyepiece. Very good eye relief, around 50d fov and sharp optics, all for sensible money. A great buy for someone on a budget who wants quality to get the best out of there set up.

I hope this helps ☺

 

 

 

[alan potts]

I don't have the BGO version but I have the Hutech brand, may even be the same, at 5mm, I find this tight and like John, find I have to be in the right mood, or maybe farme of mind to use it. I find the shorter two I have, 5mm and 6mm tire me quickly. I can only imagine the 4mm will be hard work with shorter ER and smaller eye lens.

Alan

[25585]

Vixen N/S/LV/W are all made in Japan. 

Vixen (circle-V) also made eps for other brands including Celestron, Tele Vue & Orion. 

2.5mm, 4mm & 9mm LVs on ebay at present.  

[Louis D]

54 minutes ago, 25585 said:

Vixen N/S/LV/W are all made in Japan.

With the SLV line, production moved to China.  Reports seem to indicate they got better, if anything, over the LV and NLV.  I would definitely place the Pentax XL and XW line slightly above the LV line in terms of overall sharpness.  The Delos and ES-92 are also right there for edge to edge sharpness.  However, if you can pick up the LVs for $60 to $70 used, they're a great deal.  I paid $90 in 1997 for my 9mm.

[25585]

I thought it was the NLP Plossls that were made in China, not SLV range. My 30mm NLVW & 50 NLV do not have Japan on them or their boxes. Both have the gold coloured NLV jackets. 

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, 25585 said:

I thought it was the NLP Plossls that were made in China, not SLV range. My 30mm NLVW & 50 NLV do not have Japan on them or their boxes. Both have the gold coloured NLV jackets. 

Well, according to John in this posting and seemingly confirmed by this posting on CN, the SLVs are now made in China.

[Timebandit]

17 hours ago, Louis D said:

With the SLV line, production moved to China.  Reports seem to indicate they got better, if anything, over the LV and NLV.  I would definitely place the Pentax XL and XW line slightly above the LV line in terms of overall sharpness.  The Delos and ES-92 are also right there for edge to edge sharpness.  However, if you can pick up the LVs for $60 to $70 used, they're a great deal.  I paid $90 in 1997 for my 9mm.

 

14 hours ago, 25585 said:

I thought it was the NLP Plossls that were made in China, not SLV range. My 30mm NLVW & 50 NLV do not have Japan on them or their boxes. Both have the gold coloured NLV jackets. 

 

6 hours ago, Louis D said:

Well, according to John in this posting and seemingly confirmed by this posting on CN, the SLVs are now made in China.

 

If I remember correctly. The NLV were made in Japan. And from what I remember from the FLO sales site the new SLV were going to be from the China/Taiwan area. As people were trying to pick up the out going model NLV as its Japan origin was favoured by some. From other reports and my use of the NLV /SLV these eyepieces really are excellent for the money. 

[25585]

I have some original LV eps & 1 NLV. LVs are great for bino viewing - 9 & 20mm pairs, & single 10, 18, 30, 50 NLV. 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I had the LV 9 and 7 mm, and hated the stiff rubber fold-back eye-cup, although once folded back (I need to because I wear glasses when observing) the image was very good indeed, and they were so much more comfortable than the 10mm Plossl I used before. I replaced them by TV Radians (10 and 8) which were a touch better, and replaced these by the superlative Pentax XW 10 and 7mm, with a Delos 8mm in between. I also got myself a couple of Vixen SLVs (5, 9, and 15mm), both for solar and as a lightweight travel set. I have compared the SLV 5mm to the Pentax XW 5 I got second hand some time later, and the verdict is that there is VERY little, if anything between them, except field of view. They are extremely comfortable and tack sharp. They are also great for outreach. A fellow volunteer on the astronomy outreach days was grumbling about his 5mm ortho (that it was hard to find the eye lens, and he had to take off his glasses to use them). I lent him my SLV 5mm and he was astounded. I think he has ordered a couple. My impression is that the SLVs are sharper, and have an even more neutral colour balance than the old LVs.

[John]

1 hour ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

... My impression is that the SLVs are sharper, and have an even more neutral colour balance than the old LVs.

I agree. I also think that the more recent glass and coatings allow more light throughput as well.

[25585]

12 minutes ago, John said:

I agree. I also think that the more recent glass and coatings allow more light throughput as well.

Definitely better light transmission between my LV 30mm & NLVW 30mm. Also latter has more usable eye relief. I believe it was made in China or Taiwan. 

[Alan White]

SLV are China made.
They are also very well made.
This Japan made fantasy is so wrong, yes Japan optics are good, so are lot's of others.
It's the design and quality of build not where it's been made.
That's why TeleVue have things made in Taiwan ROC.

[Littleguy80]

Thank you everyone for all the great advice. All the Vixen eyepieces mentioned sound really good. I've decided to still go down the ortho route first. I've had such good experiences with my existing orthos and haven't been troubled by the eye relief. They can also be picked up cheaply secondhand so cost isn't a concern. If I don't get on with the ortho then I'm sold on a 4mm SLV  I may even get the SLV to compliment the ortho. Options are always good!