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DSLR vs CCD/CMOS

Redscouse

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

Posted
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11 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

I think I want a cooled CCD more then ever now. :happy6:

 

15 minutes ago, Redscouse said:

You and me both buddy! :help:

It may still be the best option but there is no doubt that a cooled CMOS can be an excellent camera both in colour and in mono. I'm not in the market for a camera but, if I were, I'd be considering CMOS.

Olly

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Allinthehead

Allinthehead

Posted
Posted

I picked up a cooled cmos one shot colour in the classifieds here well within your budget. I already had a cooled mono cmos so i have the best of both worlds.

A mono camera with a ha filter is great however i find myself using the colour camera more due to the simplicity.

It's a tough choice but if i had to give up one camera it would be the colour due to the flexibility of the mono.

If you're considering the Asi 1600 be aware that it has an issue with bright stars. You get a strange diffraction pattern as can be observed in the image of the horsehead earlier in the thread.  Strangely enough i got the pattern with my 80ed but with the Star 71 and now the Epsilon the pattern isn't noticeable. 

31675639823_164153a566_z.jpgjelly Odd diffraction on bright star by Richard Sweeney, on Flickr

There seems to be a new wave of backlit cmos coming to the market that should also be worthy of consideration.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-294mc-pro-usb-30-cooled-colour-camera.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-183mm-pro-usb-3-cooled-mono-camera.html

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Redscouse

Redscouse

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4 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

I'd be considering CMOS.

I think I have been using the terms ccs & cmos interchangeably. :unsure: 
Don't DSLR's use CMOS sensors? 

I think the overwhelming thing I've taken from this thread is 'the best' is a matter of opinion. One person says yay, another says nay. Been interesting reading all comments. I must admit, when I started the topic I expected that after a few posts one type would emerge most popular. I'd say the opposite has been true of this thread. There seems to be an equal argument for each side. 
 

19 minutes ago, Allinthehead said:

If you're considering the Asi 1600 be aware that it has an issue with bright stars. You get a strange diffraction pattern as can be observed in the image of the horsehead earlier in the thread.  Strangely enough i got the pattern with my 80ed but with the Star 71 and now the Epsilon the pattern isn't noticeable.

 

19 minutes ago, Allinthehead said:

There seems to be a new wave of backlit cmos coming to the market that should also be worthy of consideration.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-294mc-pro-usb-30-cooled-colour-camera.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-183mm-pro-usb-3-cooled-mono-camera.html

Thanks for the tips! :thumbsup:

 

Edit: Just checked out them two links, this mono seems to tick all boxes and even comes in on budget! :)

20 minutes ago, Allinthehead said:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-183mm-pro-usb-3-cooled-mono-camera.html

Thanks for the heads-up. :thumbsup:

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Allinthehead

Allinthehead

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57 minutes ago, Redscouse said:

Edit: Just checked out them two links, this mono seems to tick all boxes and even comes in on budget! :)

Don't forget to add the cost of filter wheel and filters, although if your budget doesn't allow to get all at once you can purchase a ha filter, or ir cut filter first. You don't necessarily need the filter wheel as you can screw filters into the imaging train.

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Anne S

Anne S

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On 29/03/2018 at 17:27, Redscouse said:

 

PS: Nobody picked up on the Altair Hypercam I mentioned. Was that a good thing or bad? 
Altair Hypercam 183M (the one Trevor uses on Astrobackyard)

There’s an Altair Astro google group. There’s been some conversation there about the Hypercam 183. Mostly the colour one though. People have been using it for lucky imaging and it comes with a 1 year Sharpcap license. It does have small pixels which will affect sensitivity, the Atik 314+ has ones 3 times the size and it has set point cooling but it’s a ccd not a cmos, which does make a difference.

Anne

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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48 minutes ago, alacant said:

So is a dslr, with the advantage of affordable full frame thrown in, even with a cheap achromatic refractor...

example

Full frame is never 'affordable,' neither at the camera level nor at the optical. How much does this Petzval element cost? I had a quick look but couldn't find it. And, while it works in monochromatic light, how well does it work in broadband? I'm still to be convinced and the image to which you link is on the thin side for 4.5 hours.

Olly

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animal666

animal666

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I wouldn’t get involved in a Discussion between CCD/CMOS/Colour/Mono

Whatever you end up getting, get a cooled one, the noise reduction from cooling is the biggest thing I noticed.

I wouldn’t entertain a DSLR after using a cooled CCD/CMOS.

”Once you go Cooled, You Never Go Back”

 

 

 

 

 

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Stub Mandrel

Stub Mandrel

Posted
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1 hour ago, geoflewis said:

Astromodified Canon 6D - how much is one of those?

Bet it costs more than my 450D. £130 the self-modded + cooled with bits and pieces. OK my picture isn't great, but it shows you can do the Ha shuffle with a secondhand DSLR:

Horsey_Ha_3.jpg

Edit - It's only 3 hours 40 minutes in case Olly thinks it's a bit thin :evil:

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tooth_dr

tooth_dr

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Bet it costs more than my 450D. £130 the self-modded + cooled with bits and pieces. OK my picture isn't great, but it shows you can do the Ha shuffle with a secondhand DSLR:

Horsey_Ha_3.jpg

Edit - It's only 3 hours 40 minutes in case Olly thinks it's a bit thin :evil:

My latest purchase was a £37 40d :headbang:

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geoflewis

geoflewis

Posted
Posted

FWIW here's mine from 2015 with 600D + CLS clip filter, using my 4" TSAPO100Q - 14 x 8min subs, so just under 2 hours total.

5abfe1d89ba86_HHFlame_600D_CLS-clip.thumb.jpg.3e164aca185e65838f928070ba7eabd3.jpg

I purchased the 600D new and modified through Astronomiser for around £600-£700, and had a lot of fun with it, but moved it on last year at half that price as I hadn't used it since getting a pre-owned mono QSI in autumn 2016.

Do I think DSLR is as good as CCD, hell no, but I do think it's a relatively cheap way to start out if the OP only has £600+/- budget. Some of that budget will likely be needed for a guide scope + guide camera, as without those then really there's not much point trying AP, certainly not with a CCD camera. That budget will get the OP imaging + guiding with a good pre-owned DSLR, but is very unlikely to get up and running with a cooled mono CCD /CMOS + filters + FW + guiding inside £1000. Add to that the cost of processing software, etc., etc. - I'm just trying to manage expectations and costs which can really run away.....

Sure you can put off the purchase and save up, but if you want to start now, then I still say go for a 2nd hand DSLR, which you'll likely be able to sell on with little financial loss. You'll be streets ahead by learning capture and processing techniques, most of which will hold you in good stead if/when you upgrade to a mono CCD/CMOS camera.

Cheers, Geof

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Redscouse

Redscouse

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On 31/03/2018 at 20:51, geoflewis said:

Do I think DSLR is as good as CCD, hell no, but I do think it's a relatively cheap way to start out if the OP only has £600+/- budget. Some of that budget will likely be needed for a guide scope + guide camera, as without those then really there's not much point trying AP, certainly not with a CCD camera. That budget will get the OP imaging + guiding with a good pre-owned DSLR, but is very unlikely to get up and running with a cooled mono CCD /CMOS + filters + FW + guiding inside £1000. Add to that the cost of processing software, etc., etc. - I'm just trying to manage expectations and costs which can really run away.....

Hi Geoff. 

My budget is for the camera alone. I already have a DSLR for imaging and all setup for guiding so this new camera will be my upgrade, hence why I want either a modded dslr or dedicated mono. (I already have an EFW with filters - don't ask! :) )

On 31/03/2018 at 19:07, animal666 said:

I wouldn’t entertain a DSLR after using a cooled CCD/CMOS.

That's why I am tempted to make the switch. :thumbsup:

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geoflewis

geoflewis

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17 minutes ago, Redscouse said:

Hi Geoff. 

My budget is for the camera alone. I already have a DSLR for imaging and all setup for guiding so this new camera will be my upgrade, hence why I want either a modded dslr or dedicated mono. (I already have an EFW with filters - don't ask! :) )

That's why I am tempted to make the switch. :thumbsup:

Hi Pete, my bad I hadn’t realised that you were already set for guided AP with a DSLR and a filter wheel to boot. Based on that I’ll change my recommendation to getting a dedicated cooled mono camera, whether that is a CCD, or CMOS. £1k might be a tad tight budget, but they do come up pre-owned. I picked up my QSI583wsg-5 with LRGB filters and spare filter wheel and a couple of different adapters for £1400 about 18 months ago, but there are cheaper options.

Good luck, Geof

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Redscouse

Redscouse

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11 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

Based on that I’ll change my recommendation to getting a dedicated cooled mono camera

Yeah I'm thinking this is the way forward too. Just a matter of choosing one now. I can go a little over budget, IE: a few hundred. I think she'll have something to say if she sets me a £1k limit and I go and spend £2.5k :) 

I'm just looking on FLO's site now (as they have an offer on at the moment for ZWO gear.) 
Is the price jump between each mono equal to the upgrade? IE: am I getting £264 more worth of camera when buying the 183M compared with the 290M ?

It's a minefield. It really is.. :help:

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geoflewis

geoflewis

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Redscouse said:

Is the price jump between each mono equal to the upgrade? IE: am I getting £264 more worth of camera when buying the 183M compared with the 290M ?

It's a minefield. It really is.. :help:

I have no experience of ZWO cameras for DSO, just the ASI120MM which I use only for planetary, solar and lunar  work. The technology of those CMOS cameras seems to be making huge and rapid strides, so I’d definitely be considering one if I ever have to replace my QSI CCD. Yes, it’s quite a minefield, so do your research, then pull the trigger and don’t look back :icon_biggrin:. Good luck, Geof

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