INDI Raspberry Pi3 - Any experts?

[Myrialejean]

In recent months I've been playing around with creating a RPi3 based setup to control imaging and guiding etc. Previously I've used a laptop running PHD2 and BYE and this worked well but I thought it would be great to have a cheap RPi left outside rather than my expensive laptop.

Being a software developer myself (albeit with little Linux expertise) I obviously decided to work it all out for myself - how had could it be .  ...Then having failed miserably I followed various tutorials with more success.  I think my first mistake was using Raspbian rather than Ubuntu (although other people seem to be managing OK with Raspbian).  Setup was fairly painless and it seemed to recognise my hardware first time.  However, things started to go wrong as soon as I tried it all out for real with everything connected.

Number one issue was getting Ekos to image using my Canon 700d.  I'm suspecting that the INDI driver is not keeping the connection alive as the camera keeps disconnecting (although Ekos doesn't seem to spot this immediately).  Once this happens I have to power the camera on an off and restart INDI (sometimes several times) to get it to reconnect.  With BYE controlling the 700d (albeit on Windows) it stays connected no problem so I'm guessing BYE keeps the camera from going into standby and disconnecting.  I also couldn't figure out the focusing - mainly because the live view it presented wasn't at a high enough exposure to see the stars and I couldn't figure out how to adjust it.

Next issue was guiding.  I'm using a QHY5IIM as a guide camera and the Ekos guide module seemed to have no real issues with this.  The dark frame subtraction seemed a bit iffy but that may be just my incompetence.  The main thing was that I could only make it work through ST4 and not by sending commands via the hand controller.  I've got a CGEM DX mount with NexStar and StarSense hand controllers and although it seems fine sending slew and sync commands the guide command produce errors (regardless of which HC I have plugged in).  This is especially annoying as it doesn't just log the errors it fires off a desktop full of dialog boxes before you can stop it.

So... after several months all I've got so far is the ability to slew the scope around from KStars on my laptop via the Pi (which I could do before using a direct connection anyway).

However, I refuse to be beaten by tiny box of electronics  and I do like INDI/Ekos  So if anyone has any helpful advice it'd be much appreciated.

 

Also, tried out iAstroHub with almost zero success.  Very nice minimalist approach supplied as a pre-built Raspbian image but just could not make it work.  Tried it with both my Canons and Nikon D7200 but refused to take images although it was clearly trying with the Nikon as the shutter opened but unfortunately the mirror stayed down then the top LCD went a bit erratic so I pulled the plug in a hurry.  The Canon INDI driver had more success than the iAstroHub DSLR driver but that locked the shutter open until I powered it off.  All in all not a good experience.  I do like the simple headless approach though with a webserver interface that works from a tablet running skysafari.

Rich.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

If you have all the equipment directly connected to the Pi3, then you will have issues, as it can't cope with the power needs....

I use an external, powered hub that drives all the connected devices (2 cameras, mount, focuser etc.) 

[Myrialejean]

1 hour ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

If you have all the equipment directly connected to the Pi3, then you will have issues, as it can't cope with the power needs....

I use an external, powered hub that drives all the connected devices (2 cameras, mount, focuser etc.) 

Thanks for the reply. 

Yes, I use a powered hub although the Canon 700d shouldn't draw any power off the USB and seems to disconnect even when it's the only thing connected to Ekos.  The QHY5II which is USB powered will stay up an running quite happily even connected directly to the Pi.  I suspect its a software issue as when the 700d is connected to BYE on the laptop the hub shows constant activity (probably checking battery etc. which presumably stops it going into standby) but on the Pi it's idle when not imaging. 

In terms of the CGEM mount it stays connected all night and drives it perfectly, it's just guiding that won't work other than via ST4 (gets a stream of errors when it tries to guide via HC).   I don't have an issue using ST4 for guiding but wanted to try it through the HC as currently getting erratic results - almost certainly due to the tiny guider (9x50) vs big scope (C8) scenario but wanted to rule out conflict between the ST4 pulses and HC tracking.

Rich.

[Vox45]

I've been using INDI/Ekos for a year now running on ubuntu mate on the RPI and Kubuntu on my laptop. I had no issues aside a couple of DSLR disconnection from time to time when switching from my guide camera to DSLR but no biggie. I realised that when it happened it was hub related, powering the hub on and off would solve the issue.

I would recommend that you open a thread on the INDI forum as Jasem (the main developer) is quick to answer and can guide you to gather the necessary logs and info needed to fix this. There is an active community so don't hesitate to report any issue you have as it helps everyone to get a better product in the end

[Myrialejean]

Thanks for the advice.  Will give the INDI forum a go.   I have no doubt it's something I'm doing wrong 

Rich.

[Myrialejean]

Latest update...

Trawled the INDI forums and seem to have solved the issue of the 700d disconnecting all the time by adding a swap file to the RPi.  Not an especially good thing long term I'd have thought given that it's running on an SD card but at least it appears to have improved things.  Next issue I had was that it was taking 30s exposures no matter what I set (in fact the camera even showed the desired value) and then promptly failed to download the image after another 30s and started over again.  Fix for that was to configure the mirror up delay to be 1s and hey presto it takes images and uploads them to the client! 

...and now got guiding through the mount HC (rather than ST4) to work.  Still don't think the INDI Celestron GPS driver is 100% OK with a StarSense HC as it still complains about the firmware being too old to support sync - INDI sees it as a NexStar but the SS version numbers are different (far lower).  The QHY driver is also a bit fragile I found - tends to die if I mess with things like subframe capture and the client just times out.  Also found that using a wired ethernet helped no end but that's down to my dodgy wifi.

Have to say it's a tad painful compared to using BYE or APT but I shall not be defeated! 

At some stage I may rebuild it on Raspbian as that runs a bit slicker on the Pi than Ubuntu (and the web browser tends to work).

[wimvb]

You seem to have solved most of your issues. I use INDI on an RPi running Ubuntu Mate. Client is Ekos/Kstars on windows with a local (windows) astrometry solver (ansvr). I start indiserver through the web manager. I've never connected a DSLR to INDI, but it works great with my ZWO ASI174. The main reason I bought the ZWO and not the QHY version of this camera, was the drivers. I got the impression that while QHY produces (imo) a better camera, they seem to have problems making stable Linux drivers for their cameras.

I also found that the mount connection (SW AZ EQ6, EQDirect) is more stable if the EQDir cable is connected directly to the RPi, and not through a usb hub.

The built in RPi wifi connection ahas been reported being weaker than a separate dongle. If you want to go wireless and have a spare usb port, you could try that option instead.

Btw, @Gina on this forum, has threads where she describes setting up an imaging rig under INDI/Linux/RPi. I'm sure you'll find more usefull information there.

Good luck,

 

[Gina]

You may like my tutorial :- Setting up a Raspberry Pi for Astro Imaging and Hardware Control

[Vox45]

You should give Astroberry server a try. Already preinstalled with lots of features and good support from the dev on the INDI forum

=====================================

Astroberry Server is a ready to use astronomy desktop system for Raspberry Pi 3 It is a standalone system for controlling astronomy equipment supported by INDI server.

The system features:

    Ubuntu Mate 16.04 Desktop
    Virtual Access Point (VAP) allowing to access the system without external wireless network
    Remote desktop accessible over VNC at astroberry.local:5900 or a web browser at https://astroberry.local
    KStars and Ekos with all available device drivers
    Astrometry with basic index files
    PHD2 for autoguiding
    Gnome Predict for satellite tracking
    StarPlot for 3-dimensional positions of stars in space
    oaCapture and wxAstroCapture for planetary imaging
    Astroberry PiFace drivers for a relay and focuser control
    Samba server sharing Pictures directory for easy access to captured images

=====================================

Here is a quick demo

 

[Myrialejean]

15 hours ago, Gina said:

You may like my tutorial :- Setting up a Raspberry Pi for Astro Imaging and Hardware Control

I do indeed like your tutorial 

I'm planning to build another image using Raspbian when I get the chance as it appears better suited to the Pi than Ubuntu Mate.  I started out with Raspbian originally a year or so ago but switched to Ubuntu after running into various issues installing stuff.  I think that I've just got an unlucky choice of hardware but at least there seem to be workarounds.

Rich.

[Gina]

I've used Ubuntu Mate too but had problems.  Seems that Ubuntu Mate is good for some thing and Raspbian for others.

[Myrialejean]

1 hour ago, Vox45 said:

You should give Astroberry server a try. Already preinstalled with lots of features and good support from the dev on the INDI forum

=====================================

Astroberry Server is a ready to use astronomy desktop system for Raspberry Pi 3 It is a standalone system for controlling astronomy equipment supported by INDI server.

The system features:

    Ubuntu Mate 16.04 Desktop
    Virtual Access Point (VAP) allowing to access the system without external wireless network
    Remote desktop accessible over VNC at astroberry.local:5900 or a web browser at https://astroberry.local
    KStars and Ekos with all available device drivers
    Astrometry with basic index files
    PHD2 for autoguiding
    Gnome Predict for satellite tracking
    StarPlot for 3-dimensional positions of stars in space
    oaCapture and wxAstroCapture for planetary imaging
    Astroberry PiFace drivers for a relay and focuser control
    Samba server sharing Pictures directory for easy access to captured images

====================================

 

Thanks, I'll certainly give it a try, far easier to have a pre-built image to work from rather than having to start from scratch.
I had high hopes for iAstroHub because it is a pre-built headless image that works through a web interface over a WiFi AP it generates itself but that turned out to be very painful to get operational.
Definitely a fan of the INDI/Ekos approach with proper desktop access to see whats going on.
I have a personal preference for Ubuntu Mate as well but still have to concede that Raspbian seems slicker on the Pi, I always seem to end up breaking the web browser on Unbuntu also.

[wimvb]

While I have the complete desktop version of Ubuntu Mate on my Pi, I never use that. I connect using SSH (Putty), start indi-web, and do all the rest from Windows. Never had any problems with this. But otoh, I don't have any real Linux experience, and rely very much on tutorials and google.

I do like the one stop shop approach of INDI and Ekos/Kstars. And if you have money to spare, there is the StellarMate gadget. Basically a Raspberry Pi with everything installed, in a nice box:

https://www.stellarmate.com/

 

[Fellside]

Rich

I have been running Ubuntu Mate on my Pi2 and Pi3 with INDI and Ekos/Kstars. My Nikon D5300 had problems with the Ekos Nikon driver. A change to Ekos GPhoto driver and things became reliable with control of all the features I need. I must admit I also run a swap file on the Pi as you do. All items are plugged into a StarTech4 Port Industrial USB Hub.

The INDI and Ekos/Kstars combination is quite impressive and has encouraged me to start to build a ROR observatory that will be Linux only. I have main PC running Ubuntu Mate chained over wired network to two Pi`s at the scope. I do find the Pi WiFi is to slow, especially when downloading DSLR files. At the moment I use wired network to both Pi`s. All seems to run fairly reliably at the moment, until it is installed it in the ROR. The only thing I am lacking at the moment is a INDI driver for the Mesu 200. It is on it way and ready for testing by the end of the year.

Ok after that bit of waffle give GPhoto a try it may it may help.

Graham

[Myrialejean]

10 hours ago, Fellside said:

Rich

I have been running Ubuntu Mate on my Pi2 and Pi3 with INDI and Ekos/Kstars. My Nikon D5300 had problems with the Ekos Nikon driver. A change to Ekos GPhoto driver and things became reliable with control of all the features I need. I must admit I also run a swap file on the Pi as you do. All items are plugged into a StarTech4 Port Industrial USB Hub.

The INDI and Ekos/Kstars combination is quite impressive and has encouraged me to start to build a ROR observatory that will be Linux only. I have main PC running Ubuntu Mate chained over wired network to two Pi`s at the scope. I do find the Pi WiFi is to slow, especially when downloading DSLR files. At the moment I use wired network to both Pi`s. All seems to run fairly reliably at the moment, until it is installed it in the ROR. The only thing I am lacking at the moment is a INDI driver for the Mesu 200. It is on it way and ready for testing by the end of the year.

Ok after that bit of waffle give GPhoto a try it may it may help.

Graham

Hi Graham

My Canon 700d seems fairly stable on the Canon DSLR driver at the moment but I'm not 100% sure what has 'fixed' it and it's probably just waiting until I next take it outside . I think that the Canon and Nikon drivers are just modified versions of GPhoto or wrappers for it but that's not to say they haven't got bugs.  I'll have a play with using GPhoto anyway.  With me it just seems to be Canons I have problems with as my Nikon D7200 seems fine - ironic as the only reason I bought a Canon was that it has more widespread software support.

I have come to the same conclusion about the WiFi and long since moved to using a cable.  Be very interesting to see what happens with the RPi going forward seeing as Google is clearly taking an interest with all the AI HATs etc.

Very envious that you have a ROR obs... maybe when I'm retired and sold off a kid or two 

Rich.

 

[NickK]

I have an ODroid C2 64bit INDI custom compilation/install - it's possible but as the others have said you will find it less hassle picking up one of the astro packaged distros. 

Like you have have done development for .. too long, but now my time not sorting out big problems is more valuable! Astro time!!

 

[Myrialejean]

On 25/10/2017 at 11:50, Myrialejean said:

Thanks, I'll certainly give it a try, far easier to have a pre-built image to work from rather than having to start from scratch.
I had high hopes for iAstroHub because it is a pre-built headless image that works through a web interface over a WiFi AP it generates itself but that turned out to be very painful to get operational.
Definitely a fan of the INDI/Ekos approach with proper desktop access to see whats going on.
I have a personal preference for Ubuntu Mate as well but still have to concede that Raspbian seems slicker on the Pi, I always seem to end up breaking the web browser on Unbuntu also.

Just given Astroberry a quick try and it looks like it's got promise, certainly better than I've managed to achieve installing the stuff myself manually.

Web access didn't work as Windows doesn't like the server even with the certificate installed in the trusted store.  At first I thought it was the time zone being set to Warsaw (the image is configured for Poland) but a quick examination of the certificate showed that it was SHA-1 (which seems universally blocked on Windows these days).  I don't have an issue using a VNC viewer app though.

Also managed to kill FireFox and the WiFi as I normally do  I think it goes as soon as any updates are applied.  Think I'm going to re-flash the SD and try again, resisting the temptation to meddle with anything this time 

Update:

Started again with a fresh image and didn't touch anything other than changing the settings to be UK.  Seemed much better although obviously the web access still won't work because of the certificate.  Interestingly chrome on my phone still gives me the option to ignore the iffy certificate and connect.  Silk on my Fire tablet didn't care but the noVNC server didn't like it and errored. No big loss though.

Found still get exactly the same issues with my Canon 700d and Ekos though.  Tried Graham's suggestion and switched to GPhoto but made no difference (The Canon driver is GPhoto anyway).  Easily fixed by setting the mirror up value to something other than zero (otherwise it always takes a 30s exp, fails and retries) and adding a swap file to make it stay connected.

Think I'll stick with the Astroberry image as it's much cleaner than mine and has a few more extras (plus it's pre-built).

Think I'll be sticking with my laptop for DSLR imaging - obviously spoilt by having tools that are a bit more realtime   Had a quick go with the focusing module and found it a bit tedious waiting 20s to get a 0.5s frame when I'm used to seeing the values instantly displayed from a liveview stream.  My laptop SW can also pull the subs off the 700d in the background whilst the next exposure is in progress.  Think I'll still persevere with the pointing and guiding though as would be nice to have that running off the Pi.  The solving is a nice feature which I'd lose by not having the DSLR connected to Ekos but then again I've got a StarSense so the mount's pointing is pretty spot-on anyway.

End of ramble...

[Marci]

BYE PremiumEdition integrates with Astrotortilla for plate solving... APT's Pointcraft GoTo / Centering / Solving engine uses AllSky Platesolver.

Tutorials are out there for setting up both... no need to lose out!

I find the Pi / Indi setup useful only when abandoning kit to run itself, ie: imaging to camera SD only... sift, stack and process next day. Use gPhoto CLI to manually retrieve subs from the camera for focus / aim checking, then hand it all over to INDI for the imaging run. Only ever do this if I'm leaving it all unattended and going elsewhere with laptop.

[stash_old]

I will probably got shot down for this but using "most" Canon DSLR on Linux,for long exposure work is a "hard" slog. Don get me wrong the guys doing Gphoto2 etc (which all linux /Indi set ups use - unless you know otherwise) do a brilliant job reverse engineering Canon protocols BUT its just so hit and miss. I admit it depends on the models used but for example my Canon 100d has real problems doing long exposures and if you read the Indi / Gphoto2 forums you will see many a frustrating thread.

I wish its wasn't so but Canon DSLR's (99%) work first time out of the box with APT/BYE on windows and provide a lot of functionality  - this just doesn't happening with Linux/Indi. ZWO camera's ,and others,are different because the company supports Linux and provides Linux drivers .

Now I know there are Windows /Indi "gateways" being developed which give you the ability to run APT on Windows but use Indi for telescope control etc but last time I looked they were in early testing.

I would love to ditch ASCOM as its too Windows centric (.net) and Ascom doesn't look like changing the interface so that there is an alternative to "Serial" (Again unless you know otherwise) connections and also allow "distributed" software/hardware  as standard (something Indi should be good at).Plus Camera manufactures could help by dropping USB(or offering alternative net connection) and use something like MQTT/TCP/Ethernet - that goes for all the Ascom connected Devices. (Yes I know I could run a MicroPC running Win 10 with SSD ) P.S. IBM is working on (may have finished) creating a Cognitive telescope Network which includes an API wrapper for ASCOM using MQTT (they created MQTT)

So IMHO INDI (Gphoto etc) is not quite there with DSLR (Canon) and is  too slow (for good reasons - money etc) in bringing forward a working "out of the box" solution. I hope that changes or something has changed in he last month (last time I tried it)

P.S. For testing out different versions of OS on RPI and using USB sticks instead of SD cards try using Berryboot - yes RPI3 can load from USB but as I understand this its  a one way one off change and no going back - Berryboot gives you flexibility. There is also a site that has many flavours of OS that work on RPI/ODroid some free and some you pay for - Think they will also create a correctly Berryboot formatted version for you - for a price. Here is he link https://berryboot.alexgoldcheidt.com

Normal BerryBoot link here http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php/berryboot

Nice write up Gina hadn't seen that before !

 

[tony8690]

Hi All,

Do we know if the Pi Zero W would work as a Guider system running astroberry??

If it is only used for guiding.

Thanks,

Tony

[Myrialejean]

13 minutes ago, tony8690 said:

Hi All,

Do we know if the Pi Zero W would work as a Guider system running astroberry??

If it is only used for guiding.

Thanks,

Tony

I haven't used a Zero but given I found the Pi3 B to be a little taxed at times I'd have thought the Zero would be pushing things.
Apart from having half the RAM it's only got a single core processor I think as opposed the the Pi3's quad core.

Rich.

[RadekK]

This is really old post but it might be of interest that Astroberry Server was updated in November 2018. New features were added and what is more important it supports Raspberry Pi 3B+

Clear skies!

Radek Kaczorek
Astroberry Server | NEQ6 | Atik 460EX | Atik EFW2 | ASI 120MM