Help me help a beginner AP:er

[MartinFransson]

I´ve been asked to help a student make project for their last year in school. The task is to learn astrophotography from scratch. I will aid in purchase of equipment, tutorials, suitable software, set up in the field etc.

The gear used will probably be an entry level Canon DSLR, a Skywatcher Star Adventurer Photo Kit and a sturdy tripod. Now, for the optics... at first I was set at keeping the focal length to a maximum of 200mm and using camera lenses for ease of use. However, to capture any single DSO I wouldn´t want to go much below 200mm either. Enter the Canon 200/2.8 L lens. Not cheap but I´ve seen some great results with it. It would however take half of the total project budget (around 1500 Euro).

My next thougt was what if we tried a cheap, small refractor? Like this one:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p5632_TS-50mm-f-6-6-APO-Doublet-Refractor---Day-Night-Scope-and-Tele-Objective.html

What do you guys think? Will that scope be too much in the hands of a beginner (and a Star Adventurer)? Should we stick to a 200mm lens instead?

Other suggestions? Everything has to be portable since the student lives in the city centre so no newtonians

[kendg]

I've seen a lot of good reviews for this scope. It looks to be a perfect match for the Star Adventurer

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/william-optics/william-optics-zenithstar-61-apo.html

To the point that I'm going to be getting one in the near future (Santa do you hear me)

 

[Dinglem]

You could pay a little more and get one of these.

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4639_TS-Optics-Imaging-Star-65mm-f-6-5-Quadruplet-Astrograph---44-mm-field-diameter.html

It is a quadruplet so wouldn't need any additional field flattener to get round stars over the whole field, less to set up.

[newbie alert]

I've sent you a pm Martin..

[smudgeball]

Hi

I've got a star adventurer and they are excellent.

Have a look at what this imager can do with one plus a dslr and lens (far better than me !)

http://www.astrobin.com/users/star-watcher.ch/

 

 

Neil

[MartinFransson]

Thanks for your tips! One problem is the limited number of vendors here in Sweden and I´m not sure it is possible to perform purchases from abroad within the project. Will surely check out those scopes, though.

I´m thinking that 200mm is more forgiving since this is an absolute beginner and there will be no guiding involved. Heck, maybe even a Samyang 135mm lens... I´ve seen beautiful stuff using those.

[Alien 13]

I think the Samyang 135 mm f/2 is a far better lens than the Canon 200 mm f/2.8..

Alan

[MartinFransson]

14 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

I think the Samyang 135 mm f/2 is a far better lens than the Canon 200 mm f/2.8..

Alan

Thanks Alan!

I haven´t tried the 135 myself but I own the 24/1.4 and just love it! The 135 would be almost half the price of a Canon 200 too...

What makes you think it is superior to the Canon?

[Uranium235]

Just now, MartinFransson said:

 

What makes you think it is superior to the Canon?

 

Everything!

Yes ok, its got a shorter focal length but you can use that to frame more than one object at the same time - or cover larger areas of sky. The bonus being that the samyang can operate wide open at f2 and have very good corners stars (something you will never get with the Canon). Here are a couple of snaps from the Samyang, albeit taken with a CCD:

 

 

 

[MartinFransson]

1 minute ago, Uranium235 said:

Everything!

Yes ok, its got a shorter focal length but you can use that to frame more than one object at the same time - or cover larger areas of sky. The bonus being that the samyang can operate wide open at f2 and have very good corners stars (something you will never get with the Canon). Here are a couple of snaps from the Samyang, albeit taken with a CCD:

 

Damn it! Now I just might have to get one for myself, never mind the student

Looks like a great lens. What makes me a bit hesitant is that this student will probably want to frame a familiar object, such as M31, M45 or M42. With the 135mm it will be quite small and the unmodified DSLR will not pick up much nebulosity. But I guess I could always let them borrow my 300mm lens for an evening to get some shots a bit closer.

Really wide shots are a bit tricky to process too, I´d say.

[MartinFransson]

Oh shoot! I just saw in Stellarium that the 135 would perfectly fram the Heart & Soul nebulae and the double cluster in one frame! Would look awesome...

[Uranium235]

What the 135 will buy you with a non modified DSLR is not just the star cluster, but a fair chunk of the perseus molecular cloud (you dont need to be modified to pick up dust). The only time mods come into action is if you are looking for h-alpha.

If you want to crisp up details, just shoot an area of interest (ie: M45) with the 300mm, then use registar to map it to the shorter focal length image (blend it in with photoshop).

[Uranium235]

The only thing that is tricky with the Samyang is focus, its manual focus and at f2 the adjustments are tiny... almost has if you havent moved it. But take your time, the end result is worth it (use a b-mask).

Also get a dew strip, that will prevent the focus drifting in the cold weather and keep the dew at bay.

Edit: Oh, it helps to have a dark site too... at f2 you can really suck up LP quite quickly.

[MartinFransson]

I think blending with Registar will be a bit too much for this student. Beginner, remember

I will lend her one of my dewstrips, so no problem there.

I know what you mean about focus but I find the Samyang to have a very smooth and precise focuser so with a bit of practise...

And dust... I know and I love dust. My M45 here is taken mainly with a Canon 1100D (not modified)

 

[Alien 13]

Some of the Canon DSLRs have reasonable Ha performance even unmodified, enough for some targets anyway.

Alan

[MartinFransson]

Just now, Alien 13 said:

Some of the Canon DSLRs have reasonable Ha performance even unmodified, enough for some targets anyway.

Alan

The "problem" is that she will probably use her Nikon... don´t know about them.

[happy-kat]

Do you know which Nikon it is?

[MartinFransson]

2 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Do you know which Nikon it is?

D3200. Seems noisier than similar Canons but with that high resolution images can be scaled down and I guess the stacking helps with the noise. Single frames are not that important.

[MartinFransson]

Does Nikon still have a problem with "star eater" in Bulb mode? In that case I might try to fit a cheap Canon in the budget.

[happy-kat]

What about a second hand canon body only like a 600d.

[MartinFransson]

On 2017-10-21 at 11:13, happy-kat said:

What about a second hand canon body only like a 600d.

Yes, I thought of that but I was thinking she might want to use the lens for her regular camera (the Nikon) also and not only for astro use. Would a second hand Canon be better than say a new Nikon D3400?

[happy-kat]

If the kit is for school what's easier/cheaper to support Nikon or Canon. I'm bias I chose canon for a variety of reasons so I can't answer you unbiased.

[MartinFransson]

The project is sponsored and she gets to keep the stuff. Unless there are strong reasons against it, we will go for a Nikon 3400, so she can use her other lenses as well. 

[happy-kat]

As far as I could see on a quick search is that there is no wired port for shutter release, does that camera support wifi shutter release and will the software being used work with that?

[Knight of Clear Skies]

On 19/10/2017 at 19:31, Alien 13 said:

I think the Samyang 135 mm f/2 is a far better lens than the Canon 200 mm f/2.8..

Alan

I agree, it gives far better stars. With the small pixels of a DSLR it's difficult to use its full resolution anyway, so the shorter focal length may not be much of an issue. It's also much easier to focus.