Bad Bubble Nebula > Better Bubble Nebula

[SonnyE]

...holy poop!

OK, so I waited.... and I waited.... and I waited....
I waited until the arms of Morpheus were closing on me. Finally, I just set it and forgot aboutit.
I figured I could clean up the mess in the morning, or delete it.
But then I thought, maybe this could be of some use to somebody in some small way....
PHD2 decided to flat line after doing my sequence triggering. Unusual behavior, but PHD2 did a flat line with a few intermittent spikes above or below the center (zero) line.
Rather than continue fighting with it, I decided to test what Stellarium would do as a stand alone. A while back, I was doing some testing of my USB and WiFi MoJo and discovered Stellarium will actually make my mount follow the target for hours on end.
Last night, I decided I was too tired to be bothered with it and let it run to see what would happen with Stellarium running.
When I discovered Stellarium would do rough guiding on it's own, I messaged Alex, one of the developers, and asked if Stellarium could guide like PHD2 can. No was the answer. But I always wanted to test that because there is a centering icon that puts a selected target in the center of the screen. And in my observation, seemed to continue to hang onto it.
So Phd2 acting up, Sleepy, I decided to go to bed and let it run.
Normally I'd delete something like this. But thought it demonstrated a bit about Stellarium's guiding. In my opinion, I think Stellarium could singlehandedly work for visual observing. The below GIF file comprises about 6 hours of imaging.

I vill be bach.
Here's what happened: 01-07-2017, overnight.

 

Now, I've been working on these GIF files since I discovered I could put a twinkle in my pictures. But the above was a run-away due to some anomaly with PHD2. It also shows the hot pixels that are the bane of my G3 camera. I refer to them as "The Rainbow Sprinkles".

Filtering the noise in Adobe Photoshop Elements 12 turns the RGB dots into white faux stars. But they are fixed, and I haven't figured out how to remove them entirely, only to bleach them white. Hopefully one day I can shave these off, or finally afford a better camera.

Last night I got things straightened out, my object came naturally centered, miraculously I got a better focus, And I got a nice pile of images to play with.

02-07-2017

 

Now if anyone is interested in this, it is a sequence of images gathered overnight with a guided telescope/mount taking long exposures. After processing, I save my series as JPG's, then assemble them in an online program called http://gifmaker.me/

Adjusting the time effectively adjusts the Frames Per Second. But you have a better control, IMHO, with the time per image presented. I assemble my images 1,2,3,...16,17,18,17,16,15...3,2,1. That gives the visual of the GIF running and makes the "twinkle" in the final file.

Fun to do, and fun to play with. Give it a try with some sequential images of your own.

[Astrosurf]

This is really fascinating. I love the GIFs.

Alexxx

[SonnyE]

1 hour ago, Astrosurf said:

This is really fascinating. I love the GIFs.

Alexxx

Hi Alexxx, Thank You!

I find them to be very fun. What I do is run a sequence of images, then after a quick run through in Post, put the files into the online generator.

Once I decide on the speed (time for each frame, usually 100-250 milliseconds), I download it and rename the gif file.

And Wa-La!

The 'twinkle' is actual stars and atmospheric conditions.... I believe.

But fun!

[Astrosurf]

Thanks! how did you get the static background on the first one? I've done GIFs but not lake that.

[SonnyE]

15 hours ago, Astrosurf said:

Thanks! how did you get the static background on the first one? I've done GIFs but not lake that.

Hi Alexxx, Thank You for your interest.

What appears to be a static background is actually a camera problem, hot pixels. I have yet to eliminate them. But have a thread in Imaging about the G3 camera's anomalies. I need to trot over and hopefully the Cavalry has arrived to help me out.

Meanwhile, here is one of the dark files, with the hot pixels. Or as I've come to refer to them as, "The Rainbow Sprinkles". Like sprinkles on ice cream.

When I apply Noise Filtering, these static sensor spots turn white and appear to be stars in the mix. In a simple single image, they hide. But in a GIF where the images shift, the hot pixels show drastically.

But with fewer images, and different display times, it gives a better appeal.

Here's the hot pixels in a dark file.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/296011-orion-g3-camera-anomolies/#comment-3241322

Join in if you'd like. I'm hoping to learn.

 

[MattJenko]

If you don't currently take dark frames, try that out for removing hot pixels. Some software can remove hot pixels as part of a hot pixel map as well. Mesmerising first image though

[Astrosurf]

I've developed dead pixels on my Atik, so I must try again with darks. The darks I took ruined the image so I'm not sure how to manage it yet!

[SonnyE]

12 hours ago, MattJenko said:

If you don't currently take dark frames, try that out for removing hot pixels. Some software can remove hot pixels as part of a hot pixel map as well. Mesmerising first image though

Thank You Matt.

Yeah, but I'm having trouble getting a stacking program to even work with the data from this camera. Probably my inabilities to understand how to do the settings, for example in DSS.

I did narrow it down considerably when I used images from my DSLR camera, and they stacked.

But this G3 has been a thorn in my side and a burr under the saddle.

I did finally send off a lengthy Email, with pictures and GIF files to Orion Support. So waiting to hear back.

[SonnyE]

9 hours ago, Astrosurf said:

I've developed dead pixels on my Atik, so I must try again with darks. The darks I took ruined the image so I'm not sure how to manage it yet!

Terribly sorry to hear of that Alexxx. While it apparently is not unexpected to develop hot pixels, it is a bummer to shell out so much and not get the quality one paid for.

I do have another prime example of my G3 and it's fine sensor. The other night I decided to take a shot of the moon. It shows the pattern of the sensor. The image is turned 90 degrees to orientate it right.

Check this out: My Corduroy Moon. I can't win! LOL!

[MattJenko]

I wouldn't worry too much about hot pixels. As long as the number is a small % of overall, there are ways to get rid of them. If you are struggling with darks and/or DSS's hot pixel removal feature (from memory) isn't working, then there is always dithering/stacking or other stacking tools. Hot pixels/dead columns are a fact of life, most astronomy CCDs are grade 2 CCDs anyway which have a higher hot pixel % within the specs than the more expensive grade 1 CCD, so they should be expected, so dealing with them and other noise is a key part of AP.

[SonnyE]

Thank You Matt!

I'm thinking I am finding ways around the hot pixels. I'm only beginning to finally get into the Post Processing parts. I had to climb the learning curve with the mount, guiding, and basics first.

It would be a whole new world if Astronomy progressed even slightly as fast as cell phones. But Astro-imaging is barely beginning to touch on USB3 capabilities. And now I learn that these ridiculously expensive cameras (well, not mine, but...) are second class sensors. Failed to make the cut, they get pawned off on the folks wanting to image the Universe.

To tell the truth, I've been more than a bit slighted by the quality of the equipment, given the buckets of cash it requires. Then the equipment failures speak to horrible quality control at the manufacturing level. Which my mount developed, Yet again, another failure last night.

I'm almost to the point of disgusted at this point. Not to the point of giving up, but certainly not believing in Company reputations at all.

[ollypenrice]

I'd have thought that what we are seeing most of all is polar misalignment? Am I missing something?

On 07/07/2017 at 13:07, Astrosurf said:

I've developed dead pixels on my Atik, so I must try again with darks. The darks I took ruined the image so I'm not sure how to manage it yet!

Alex, dead pixels should disappear with dither-sigma clip. If you can't/don't dither, try using Ps. Zoom in to pixel scale on dead pixels and select one in 'Select-Colour Range.' This works in mono images, by the way. Then go to Filter, Noise, Median and try the filter on the lowest settings, working up till you lose your dead pixels.

I'm not a fan of darks.

Olly

[MattJenko]

Astro cameras are cooled and as such have very different requirements from other industries and users of CCDs. In truth, it really isn't necessary to use grade 1 CCDs as the advantages for this particular use case simply are not there. The price differential is large as well. Check out Moravian G3 cameras for instance which offer grade 1 or grade 2 versions, and there is very little real world benefit from the 'better' sensor when used for astronomy.  In this regard, grade 2 sensors are not rejects, just built to a different spec. As for the quality/price issue you speak of, what amateur astronomers have available to them these days is unprecedented in human history, but I have to grant you, in a small sample, so take that as purely my limited viewpoint, all of the people I know who have AVX mounts have a non trivial % of downtime because of issues.

[SonnyE]

7 hours ago, MattJenko said:

Astro cameras are cooled and as such have very different requirements from other industries and users of CCDs. In truth, it really isn't necessary to use grade 1 CCDs as the advantages for this particular use case simply are not there. The price differential is large as well. Check out Moravian G3 cameras for instance which offer grade 1 or grade 2 versions, and there is very little real world benefit from the 'better' sensor when used for astronomy.  In this regard, grade 2 sensors are not rejects, just built to a different spec. As for the quality/price issue you speak of, what amateur astronomers have available to them these days is unprecedented in human history, but I have to grant you, in a small sample, so take that as purely my limited viewpoint, all of the people I know who have AVX mounts have a non trivial % of downtime because of issues.

That was my reason for buying 3 cameras initially. I have a serviceable DSLR, and have used it with my telescope. But knowing me, and my heavy use of my cameras, I decided on a cooled CCD, a good guide camera, and for good measure an eyepiece camera. But in my studying I didn't run across anything about the grade of these CCD's. I would expect a price difference for higher quality components. But given the chance, it would be nice to be able to decide for myself. Those Moravian cameras do look tasty, but without pricing one, I'm sure they are far beyond my reach. I can assure you I won't mortgage the farm for pictures. But do Thank You for the example. I'm actually looking forward to the CMOS cameras coming to maturity for Deep Space. Finally they are cooling some. But we are a rather limited market compared to many others. (Thinking the cell phone market and what it is doing to the DSLR)

Granted what is available is many light-years ahead of the first telescope I had as a child in the 1950's. And by in large probably on par for the prices back then, or maybe even more reasonable. Certainly by far more convenient. The technology is fantastic. Where I take vast exception is the quality control of the electronics in my mount and based on the failures it has incurred. If Apple had such a record, they'd be out of business. Unlike the run of the mill mount user, I have a very extensive electrical and electronics background. I bought my mount based on 5 other friends with the same mount and no problems at the time. Since then, 3 of us have suffered motor drive failures. In that tiny sampling that is a 50% failure rate. Two of us have suffered more than a single problem (33%). Not non trivial in the least. All except myself have moved on to other mounts. How you equate such abysmal performance to "a non trivial %" eludes me.

And since mine's second trip back for repair, I managed to coddle it along by very carefully feeding it only pure 12 volt battery power. Never anything cord connected to AC current, and never charging my battery with the mount connected. So no stray harmonics or noise from the power grid can get to the electronics of the mount. I should not have to be so cautious, nor be questioned about what I'm using as a source of power. I was fortunate that I had purchased a Celestron Branded AC power supply. But those details are outlined in their warranty. The legal speak in the warranty is to protect them, not the end user. It's a 2 year warranty, but you have little recourse but to submit your item for their determination. You can't get your money back, period. To their credit, my Generation I AVX was replaced with a Generation II mount the first time around. Sounds impressive, but the total difference is the Dec motor connector cord. In the gen II, you cannot have anyone accidentally plug the DEC motor cord into an AUX connector port. It has an 8 conductor plug. I would have thought that the Gen II would have had the Gen I's problems sorted out. Sadly, about 2 months later that dreaded motor drive failure reared it's ugly head yet again.

I know why the components failed. The electronics used (diodes, resistors, capacitors, other parts) are not meeting the original design spec of when the mounts were built in Japan. And that is driving them down in reliability. Pity. All around making a pittance more at the factory, at the expense of loosing the market. Having these experiences, I certainly cannot recommend certain items to anyone. Nor accept images presented in the advertisements as being from an item.

Orion has very recently, yet again, lowered the price on the Orion G3 camera. Probably clearing the shelves for something new to offer. Meanwhile I am hoping to hear back from them.

But you might be delighted to hear I have fixed my mount for the time being. Doing a firmware update has it operational tonight. ....Just in time for a monsoonal flow to button up the skies, and force me to grab the mount and retreat indoors. Ah, we can't dodge the weather, no matter what is in our kit.   But... tomorrow will have another night. Hopefully clearer.

Thank You for your help, Matt.