IC5070 & NGC7000

[AndyUK]

With the full moon earlier this week, I wanted to move on from IC1396... and Cygnus was clearing next door's garage roof around 22:30, so I though I'd have a crack at the Pelican nebula (IC5070).  However, when I looked on Stellarium, the ocular noted I could also get a fair portion of the North American Nebula (NGC7000) in as well...

Now, I was a bit stupid - It was after the first night that I realised I really should have rotated the camera 90 degrees and gone for a 2 pane mosaic... and I should really have written off that nights data () and started again in portrait mode... but I couldn't bear to chuck it away, so I carried on regardless, but as a consequence, the resultant framing here is a bit odd, so please excuse me on this (I'll give framing more thought next time!).

As I suspected, even though only mono, I have a lot to (re-)learn re processing, so any comments would be VERY welcome indeed... (and I can then go away and try and figure out how to address it ).

Details:  APM 80/f4.5, 33x1200s Ha, Moravian G2-8300, Astrodon 3nm Ha

(And thanks for looking... )

[barkis]

I'm afraid I can't give anywhere near an expert appraisal Andy, but it looks fine to me.
There is depth and detail in the Image, and I do like Mono Images, they seem more striking to, although colour
does pretty them up a bit, and Narrowband stuff seems more exciting to me where colour is involved.
If I had produced that, I would be mighty chuffed, But I would feel some trepidation about the forthcoming experts comments too .

 

 

 

[swag72]

I think you are being hard on yourself about the framing Andy - I don't think it's that bad at all. You can do the mosaic next year!!!

Looks good to me - I like that you have some detail and texture in the main bulk of the NAN, I think that this can often look rather flat. Stars look good and there's nothing not to like in this pleasing mono image  Good to see you still have the knowledge  

[Scott]

Very nice Andy and I also think you're being a tad hard on yourself. Theres beautiful detail in this and as for the framing, I love the way the pelican looks like it's "photo bombing" the NAN.

Keep 'em coming fella

 

[gnomus]

Excellent image.  I see no issue with the framing.  Processing looks very nice too.  Congrats.

[Uranium235]

Cant see anything wrong with that at all Andy. Good corners, well processed and tons of detail. I suspect a bit of contrast enhancement has gone in there - hence all the lovely scratchy detail below the pelican

A dash of OIII and this would look even better! I think it would have been 2 panes whatever way the camera is rotated, another pane to the left will have the whole lot framed nicely.

[laudropb]

Very nice image. Framing looks fine to me.

[AndyUK]

Thanks very much everyone for all your kind words ...

I do still wish I'd framed this in portrait mode though - If I'd centred on Cyg 57 (the bright star immediately to the left of the Pelican), I think I might have just about squeezed the both into 2 panes, although admittedly it would be very tight and I'd have lost the "scratchy bit" below...  However, I don't really think I'm ready to get back into mosaics just yet, so this will do for now.

@Ron - I too think mono images make it easier to see the detail but I know what you mean about narrowband images looking prettier in colour.  Despite the framing (), I probably will try and get some OIII on this if I can, but I haven't got the SII filter yet - It is on order, but apparently I can't have one until July!  These Astrodon filters aren't what one might call cheap (), but I'd have to say I think they're worth it - Considering how big the moon was for these 3 nights, I'd normally not even considered going out at all, but the 3nm really does cut out a lot of the moonglow, and it's surprising how many full moon nights seem to coinicide with clear skies ()

@Sara - I'm still VERY rusty on the processing side...  I'm dreading trying to put a colour image together, but I know I'll have to do it sooner or later.  I do still have that IC1396 Ha/OIII data to process, but I'll need to be in the right frame of mind for that...

@Scott - My wife noticed that photo-bombing little face poking out in the middle - I didn't see it at first, but it was the first thing my wife noticed and now I can't not see it...

@Rob - There was indeed a bit of contrast enhancement included here (bless Noel Carboni for his Astronomy Tools - I wondered if I might have over done them(?)), but just FYI, I did also try and follow your tutorial from SGLXI.  There were some bits which I'd forgotten / couldn't figure out (after all, it has been over 2 months and my brain's like a sieve!), but it certainly helped... So thanks .  The more I look at this whole area though, the more I think 4 panes would be better with my set up... but then again it's difficult to know where to stop!

 

 

[ultranova]

Very nice, on the plus side Andy, your Equipment is working very well indeed

and you have all the interesting parts in you picture, I cant fault the processing

at all, and at least the processing part can be done at your leisure,

Just being able to get some good data in the first place is the hard bit  

don't beat yourself up over it its a great pic.

Paul

 

[andyo]

Nothing wrong here this looks very nice indeed to me

[AndyUK]

Thanks Paul / Andy...  Looking at the forecast tonight, I might be able to make a little start on the OIII (fingers crossed)...

[steppenwolf]

I rather like this image - the framing is different from normal but this only serves to enhance the enjoyment of the view. Delighted to see the star quality is good throughout and that the APM is finally performing as it should. Welcome back to imaging, Andy!

[AndyUK]

Thanks very much Steve - I guess the framing's growing on me... (but that's probably because I have absolutely no intention of getting sucked into a mosaic just yet!).  It IS very nice finally being able to capture some good data though .

[ChrisLX200]

Looks very good to me - I thought '3nM Ha' as soon as I saw it ;-)  You did lose a tiny bit of the Wall but gained all those interesting striations below the Peilican, so a good swap I think. It may be slightly clipped at the black end, or it might be this monitor (monitors have been giving me problems with judging brightness and saturation recently!), but I still think there's more subtle shading in those black areas you could pull out. You have a huge data set to play with there.

ChrisH

[ollypenrice]

I like it too and echo Sara's point about it's having lots of texture when the NAN can, indeed, look flat. It's such a familiar object that a new framing revitalizes it.

So that's a 'yes' from me too. 

Olly

[AndyUK]

Thanks Chris...  "I thought '3nM Ha' as soon as I saw it". 

It took me a while to convince myself to "invest" in the 3nm Ha Astrodon, and even then I was dithering between the 3nm and 5nm, but I'm very happy with it .  As I've been "out of the saddle" for a bit, and I've only been playing with either luminance or Ha data over the last few years, OIII imaging has come as a bit of a shock - It could either be due to poor transparency or simply the signal is so low and I'm just not used to it...  Still, I have started, but I know I need a shedload more - Probably another 2 or 3 nights...

Thanks very much for the comment about the wall - I really struggled trying hold back some areas whilst pushing others, and as a consequence I was making quite a few compromises.  There probably is a little more data hidden in here (especially top right?)...  If I did decide to re-process, I could certainly try and hold parts of the wall back a bit more (as I did with the main body of the NAN). 

Regarding the black point, I did try and keep my eye on the histogram, but I remember when I ran a contrast boost action it was perhaps a little more aggresive than I'd expected...  (With hindsight, I should have run that in a layer and taken some of that out).  Mind you, as you say, these LCD screens can make life a bit difficult at times...

And thanks for your comments too, Olly - Very much appreciated!  But I think I'll still treat this as a "lesson learnt" !

 

 

 

 

[ChrisLX200]

I find that, as you go through all the processing steps, the contrast may steadily incease unintentionally and you don't really notice it happening because each step which does produce the small contrast increase seems an apparent improvement. It may be surprising then but _reducing_ contrast at the last step can make for a better picture. It takes a bit of getting used to becaused it may feel like a backward step, but if you knock the contrast down a little then you will certainly recover the fainter parts. Just look at the image for a while afterwards to see if you prefer the result ;-) Similarly a Gaussian blur in the range 0.5-0.9pxls can counteract any excessive sharpening that accrued during processing and may give a more pleasing, natural result.

Generally, nebulous OIII is very likely going to be weaker (rarely it will not be) and so will need a boost at some stage if it is to show up well when combined with the other channels. At the same time as boosting brightness of this channel (before compositing with the other channels) you need to keep the background down otherwise the whole image gets a 'blue wash', so playing with curves to produce a non-linear stretch helps. However, in doing that you also must protect (mask out) the stars because they will bloat when you increase the brightness and will produce blue halos. The other trick is to reduce the brightness of the Ha channel considerably before combining. Using PixInsight's 'LinearFit' is useful for balancing the channels but only if you can find suitable areas of background to work with. Note that the OIII in a bi-colour image requires a different approach to a tri-colour (Hubble) palette..

Just my 2p's worth of useless advice ;-)

ChrisH

[theo]

I can't see much wrong with this Andy, a really impressive image.

Pete

[Barry-Wilson]

I echo all of the comments, a beautiful and striking Ha mono with the crispness of a 3nm filter.  The crunchy contrast could be softened as Chris suggests, however, we are talking fine subjectivities here and not fundamental processing errors.

The framing is interesting and my eye is drawn to the top-right/bottom-left diagonal of background sky and dust and from there it moves to the Wall and beyond.  Andy this is a super image.

[AndyUK]

Thanks Peter and Barry - Again... Very kind of you both.  I hadn't really looked at the composition and the effect of that top-right/bottom left diagonal...  I guess it does draw the eye.  A happy accident!

Chris - " Just my 2p's worth of useless advice ;-) "

Far from it sir - Very helpful indeed .  I've applied your tips of decreasing contrast / sharpness to another image I'm working on at the moment, and also added colour desaturation to that list. You're right - It's very easy to get sucked into increasing all of them and ending up with what might be a nice image, but boy, does it smack you in the eyes!  By decreasing them, it brings back a bit of subtlety, whilst still bringing out the detail...

I also taken on board your comment about carefully boosting the OIII.  On that other other image, as opposed to using masking, I took all the stars out of partially stretched Ha and OIII images with Straton, and then stretched / combined them until I got a colour that "looked right", gaussian blurred them, and then put a "detailed" Ha over the top as luminance.  At this stage I can't process an HST palette (no SII filter ), but I'll use your ideas on creating HOO and H(G)O palettes...  They'll be my first colour images for 3 years!!!

Thanks again...