How dark can you get in Dorset?

[DaveS]

Just thinking still as yet, but I ran the "Need-Less" simulation over Dorset, and the darkest I came up with was 5.7 which counts as Bortle 5, ie "Suburban"  . In fact the whole of the county, even the most isolated areas showed up as light splodges.

Had a look at Exmoore, and the darkest I found was 5.94, still Bortle 5 and "suburban"    .

Now, I have a NELM of 4.25-4.3 here in Ruislip, where Need-Less shows 4.05. Yes, I know still dire but not as bad as predicted, so is the simulation being pessimistic?

So, what NELM do people actually living there have? I'm thinking more of villages or rural locations, not towns like Blandford Forum or Dorchester, let alone Poole or Bournmouth.

I remember when I was at school there, seeing nights where there were so many stars it was hard for a novice to pick out some of the constellations. But that was over 40 years ago, and even in London I could see the milky way.

[Stu]

I've spent many holidays camping on the Purbeck peninsula and have had some great skies. There is certainly light pollution from Poole and Bournemouth but on or near the coast the views overhead and to the south are lovely. In August, when the Milky Way runs right overhead it can be very clear, with the Cygnus rift nicely defined. I've had M13 visible naked eye and had lovely views of the Veil and North Anerica Nebula in a 4" scope as well as binos.

The area was around Worth Matravers. St Aldhelm's Head is a great place to observe, Milky Way running down to the sea.

[DaveS]

Thanks Stu. I should perhaps elaborate that I'm still looking (In a somewhat desultory way) at a possible retirement destination. I know I've talked about Ceridigion, and it's still on the table, but think it may be a move too far as I have family in Dorset.

To expand on the question, how does the Need-Less simulation compare to what you actually see? My own view is that it may be a touch pessimistic. I hope .

[kev100]

HIya,

I live in Cerne Abbas, about 10 miles north of Dorchester, and, to be honest, I'd say the need-less animation is probably a tad pessimistic, but it does depend on the night. Any atmospheric humidity, etc will scatter the light from Dorchester/Weymouth somewhat, and reduce contrast across the sky. However, clear, dark nights are fairly common, and objects like Andromeda and the Double Cluster are naked eye visible. In the summer the Milky Way is clear and sparkly, with the Cygnus Rift visible, and star clouds to the South pretty obvious.

There's hardly any sky glow to the North, as the only town in that direction is Sherborne (11 miles away), and it's not very big.

Having lived in and around London for many years, I'd say that Cerne Abbas / North Dorset is certainly not 'suburban'.

Kev

[kev100]

For what it's worth, have a look at lightpollutionmap.info.  It does show the main culprits for light pollution, but there are fairly large swathes away from the lights.

[Stu]

Thanks Stu. I should perhaps elaborate that I'm still looking (In a somewhat desultory way) at a possible retirement destination. I know I've talked about Ceridigion, and it's still on the table, but think it may be a move too far as I have family in Dorset.

To expand on the question, how does the Need-Less simulation compare to what you actually see? My own view is that it may be a touch pessimistic. I hope .

Understood Dave.

I think need-less is a useful indication but the data is old and in some cases it is pessimistic, others over optimistic.

Unfortunately, because things vary so much even within short distances I think that visiting and spending some time exploring areas is necessary to get a good idea.

[Size9Hex]

Thanks Stu. I should perhaps elaborate that I'm still looking (In a somewhat desultory way) at a possible retirement destination. I know I've talked about Ceridigion, and it's still on the table, but think it may be a move too far as I have family in Dorset.

To expand on the question, how does the Need-Less simulation compare to what you actually see? My own view is that it may be a touch pessimistic. I hope .

I'm not far away, over in Hampshire. First time I've seen that site. The bright splodges are the right places in both counties, but compared with my experience, the simulation itself is very pessimistic.

[hgjevans]

I used to live a couple of miles from Blandford in a village with no street lighting (or at least very little, and none near me) - TBH the sky there was far better than the Need-less site would suggest. The NELM prediction wasn't too far out, but the sky simulation was way off.

If you want the best dark sky, then by all means go to Ceredigion (my father was from a tiny little place just on the boundary between Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion, so I know what it's like there), but from experience I'd guess that you'd get far more benefit from the better weather in Dorset than from the darker sky in Ceredigion.

[Stub Mandrel]

I've been on Exmoor at night with my daughter. It was the first time she ever saw the Milky Way and still remembers it with awe.

I had to give up looking, simply because the sky was so awesome I felt i was being sucked up into it.

Definitely NOT suburban skies.

[DaveS]

Thanks again guys.

The two main things Ceredigion has going for it are the darker skies (Up to a mag darker) and lower house prices, (Up to £100k less for something equivalent) than Dorset. Neither are to be sniffed at.

However, against that are the poorer weather, the greater distance from family, and that Dorset, being a popular retirement destination has, I believe, better NHS support for pensioners. There's also the matter of language, and whether I could make any reasonable stab at Cymreag.

I already have several saved areas on Rightmove, the main one being an arc from the Blandford / Shaftesbury road to the west coast, avoiding Dorchester and Yeovil.

As for light pollution maps, the one I use most now is the Lightpollution,info one.

Thinking about the Bortle scale, I wonder at that "suburban" tag. I would regard Ruislip, where I live now as definitely "suburban" but no way do I get Bortle 5 or anywhere near. I suspect it's more an American thing.

I think if I could get within spitting distance of NELM 6.0 I'd be happy, and put up with it for the greater chance of actually *seeing* something rather than clouds.

[hgjevans]

Yes, I would agree - the Bortle categories just don't fit the descriptions, in my limited experience. For instance, here I get a NELM of about 4.6, give or take, but I can easily see the Milky Way arching across the summer sky, which shouldn't be possible at all for a Bortle 7 region (borderline 8). The various conditions just seem to me to be inconsistent.

[Stu]

Yes, I would agree - the Bortle categories just don't fit the descriptions, in my limited experience. For instance, here I get a NELM of about 4.6, give or take, but I can easily see the Milky Way arching across the summer sky, which shouldn't be possible at all for a Bortle 7 region (borderline 8). The various conditions just seem to me to be inconsistent.

That's quite strange. My NELM is around the same, sometimes a little better but I have only ever seen a faint hint of the Milky Way on one or two occasions.

[hgjevans]

I meant also to say the house price thing is right enough too. I wouldn't say that that part of Dorset was oozing wealth, but it's certainly instructive to sit on top of Hambledon Hill and try to count the tennis courts and stables!

[hgjevans]

That's quite strange. My NELM is around the same, sometimes a little better but I have only ever seen a faint hint of the Milky Way on one or two occasions.

I always thought there was something wrong with my eyes! I don't know - I tend to have problems with bright light in daytime conditions - driving for instance - I need sunglasses when other people have no problems. Go figure.

[DaveS]

I *have* seen / glimpsed a trace of MW from here, but no more than a slight brightening of the sky through the zenith from Cassiopeia to Cygnus, and I don't get better than 4.5 even in the darkest areas, but then people's eyes do vary quite a bit, and especially with age  .

I know Hambledon Hill, nearly got blown off it once when I went up there from school.

My budget will be of the order of £450k max, though I'd prefer something closer to £350. The former is probably do-able, the latter problematic in Dorset, though much more likely in Ceredigion.

[Pan Euro]

DaveS, as you have family in Dorset why not give them a "visit" and check some of the places you think might be worth looking at. Given that a lot of local councils are switching lights off at midnight to cut costs it may be that Dorset is darker then NELM and Need less show. Your eyes are a better judge of darkness.

Ed

[AdeKing]

Cranborne Chase includes the areas around Blandford, north west of Wimborne, and Fordingbridge and extends well into Wiltshire and has pretty dark skies, with the AONB working towards dark sky status.

http://www.ccwwdaonb.org.uk/our-work/dark-night-skies/

As previously mentioned, the Purbeck Peninsula has wonderfully dark skies towards the south where the next source of light pollution is northern France.

Poole and Bournemouth are dreadful, but the lights go out at about midnight and LED lighting is being rolled out.

Where I live between Poole and Wimborne I can see the Milky Way on clear moonless nights, but can't see any of the rifts, but as soon as there is any moisture in the air you lose a lot of the stars.

Lovely part of the world though.

[DaveS]

Thanks Ade and Ed. As I think I intimated in my OP I'm in not a huge hurry, it'll be *at least* 18 months and probably 2+ years, so I'll be taking a few holidays there as well as contacting my cousin and her husband, though as they're moving as well they may be rather busy.

Dorset is looking more and more attractive.

[Davey-T]

Went to the recent Sixpenny Handley star party, not far from Blandford Forum, and the sky was awesome compared to our London skies, the houses didn't look particularly cheap 

Dave

[Pan Euro]

the houses didn't look particularly cheap Dave

True, but little gems do come up on occasions.

[Davey-T]

True, but little gems do come up on occasions.

That'll be ones on "Homes Under The Hammer" that just need fixing up a bit, new roof, new floors, new bathroom, new kitchen, new windows and it'll be good as new 

Dave

[DaveS]

*sigh*

I suppose I should 'fess up. The school I went to was Clayesmore in Iwerne Minster, a middle-rank Public School (On an assisted placement scheme, my parents weren't rich). As a result I know (Knew) the area well, as well as just how dark it could get at night, hence my affection for the county.

I had a four day holiday in the last week of August (When it tipped down) in a self catering cottage near Dewlish. Although there was a quarter moon, and splodges of LP around the sky was still pretty dark, better than I saw at Marloes in Pembrokeshire earlier, the MW being clearly visible through breaks in the cloud on the only halfway usable night. I also found out just how annoying a single streetlight 200 yd away could be.

[hgjevans]

*sigh*

 

I suppose I should 'fess up. The school I went to was Clayesmore in Iwerne Minster

I delivered furniture there a couple of times back in the 80s (apropos of nothing in particular ). Some nice villages up and down that road, but I guess the traffic must be a pain if you actually live there.

 

... Marloes in Pembrokeshire ...

Beautiful part of the world, the Pembrokeshire coast, but I guess Marloes would be a bit too near all the oil and gas infrastructure of Milford Haven to be really dark.

[DaveS]

Yes, the cottage I stayed at was delightful, there was nobody around for at least half a mile and the countryside was beautiful, but there to the south-east was Milford Haven, twinned, I think, with Mordor. The clouds in that quarter looked nearly as bright as in London.

[Paul73]

Re. Dorset coast.

Once you get west of Abbotsbury it starts getting a lot darker. It is way better than 5.5 NELM.

Paul