Nuclear Fusion Coming Soon (Again)

[Superdavo]

Just found this article where Lockheed Martin are supposedly working on a nuclear fusion system that will actually work.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/15/us-lockheed-fusion-idUSKCN0I41EM20141015

I wish I could believe it, but it's been said so many times before...

David

[Earl]

If any could do it I would not be suprised if it was at LM Skunk works, what does suprise me is it coming out into public domain, from this source.

I hope its true, we need it more and more day by day.

[happy-kat]

We need to not embark on this unless we can safely and sustainably deal with the waste.

[nightfisher]

This is great news if correct, a fusion reactor of this size could provide a lot of power

[happy-kat]

And the waste?

[Superdavo]

And the waste?

According to http://www.radwaste.org/fusion.htm :

Nuclear fusion does produce radioactive waste. However, in contrast to fission produced wastes, they are short lived and decay to background levels in a very short time. 

It still concerns me a little when they talk about it being used in cars though! (probably not likely really)

David

[Davey-T]

Still don't know why they don't use Thorium.

Dave

[dick_dangerous]

The waste from most nuclear reactors tends to be less radioactive than the rubbish belched out by our coal-fired stations and it produces a whole lot less greenhouse gas. The main byproduct of fusion is helium, which the world is in painful short supply of, so it could be win-win.

Still, they've been 20 years away from fusion for as long as I can remember...

DD

[dick_dangerous]

The waste from nuclear reactors tends to be less radioactive than the rubbish being belched out of coal-fired stations. Plus, they release very little greenhouse gases. And the main byproduct of hydrogen fusion is helium, an incredibly important element that we've managed to squander here on Earth. Could be win-win!

It still concerns me a little when they talk about it being used in cars though! (probably not likely really)

David

It's the flux capacitor! Great Scott!

DD

[Davey-T]

The waste from most nuclear reactors tends to be less radioactive than the rubbish belched out by our coal-fired stations and it produces a whole lot less greenhouse gas. The main byproduct of fusion is helium, which the world is in painful short supply of, so it could be win-win.

Still, they've been 20 years away from fusion for as long as I can remember...

DD

They could build a Thorium reactor tomorrow

Dave

[reddoss]

And the waste?

The fusion reaction only produces low levels of short lived radio-nuclei, which is one of the reasons (along with the huge amounts of power it can produce) it has been the 'Holy Grail' in energy research for many years, it is considered a very clean form of energy.

[thanders]

Go for fusion in solar energy!

/T

[Laurie61]

Until now, the majority of fusion reactor systems have used a plasma control device called a tokamak, invented in the 1950s by physicists in the Soviet Union. The tokamak uses a magnetic field to hold the plasma in the shape of a torus, or ring, and maintains the reaction by inducing a current inside the plasma itself with a second set of electromagnets. The challenge with this approach is that the resulting energy generated is almost the same as the amount required to maintain the self-sustaining fusion reaction. 

An advanced fusion reactor version, the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER), being built in Cadarache, France, is expected to generate 500 MW. However, plasma is not due to be generated until the late 2020s, and derivatives are not likely to be producing significant power until at least the 2040s.

The problem with tokamaks is that “they can only hold so much plasma, and we call that the beta limit,” McGuire says. Measured as the ratio of plasma pressure to the magnetic pressure, the beta limit of the average tokamak is low, or about “5% or so of the confining pressure,” he says. Comparing the torus to a bicycle tire, McGuire adds, “if they put too much in, eventually their confining tire will fail and burst—so to operate safely, they don’t go too close to that.” Aside from this inefficiency, the physics of the tokamak dictate huge dimensions and massive cost. The ITER, for example, will cost an estimated $50 billion and when complete will measure around 100 ft. high and weigh 23,000 tons.

The CFR will avoid these issues by tackling plasma confinement in a radically different way. Instead of constraining the plasma within tubular rings, a series of superconducting coils will generate a new magnetic-field geometry in which the plasma is held within the broader confines of the entire reaction chamber. Superconducting magnets within the coils will generate a magnetic field around the outer border of the chamber. “So for us, instead of a bike tire expanding into air, we have something more like a tube that expands into an ever-stronger wall,” McGuire says. The system is therefore regulated by a self-tuning feedback mechanism, whereby the farther out the plasma goes, the stronger the magnetic field pushes back to contain it. The CFR is expected to have a beta limit ratio of one. “We should be able to go to 100% or beyond,” he adds.

This crucial difference means that for the same size, the CFR generates more power than a tokamak by a factor of 10. This in turn means, for the same power output, the CFR can be 10 times smaller. The change in scale is a game-changer in terms of producibility and cost, explains McGuire. “It’s one of the reasons we think it is feasible for development and future economics,” he says. “Ten times smaller is the key. But on the physics side, it still has to work, and one of the reasons we think our physics will work is that we’ve been able to make an inherently stable configuration.” One of the main reasons for this stability is the positioning of the superconductor coils and shape of the magnetic field lines. “In our case, it is always in balance. So if you have less pressure, the plasma will be smaller and will always sit in this magnetic well,” he notes.

Overall, McGuire says the Lockheed design “takes the good parts of a lot of designs.” It includes the high-beta configuration, the use of magnetic field lines arranged into linear ring “cusps” to confine the plasma and “the engineering simplicity of an axisymmetric mirror,” he says. The “axisymmetric mirror” is created by positioning zones of high magnetic field near each end of the vessel so that they reflect a significant fraction of plasma particles escaping along the axis of the CFR. “We also have a recirculation that is very similar to a Polywell concept,” he adds, referring to another promising avenue of fusion power research. A Polywell fusion reactor uses electromagnets to generate a magnetic field that traps electrons, creating a negative voltage, which then attracts positive ions. The resulting acceleration of the ions toward the negative center results in a collision and fusion. 

http://aviationweek.com/technology/skunk-works-reveals-compact-fusion-reactor-details

[Ptarmigan]

They could build a Thorium reactor tomorrow

The Indians are

or at least they were the last time I looked a couple of years ago,

cos they have a lot more thorium ore than uranium.

Still a lot of end-of-life reactor waste though but they dont suffer run-away like, well you know , ,

The operating waste from fission reactors is not a problem, all our waste since the '50s is still in a few tanks, compare that to the billions of tons of carbon now in air The problem is the local population and their back yards. Edit censored by me

[ollypenrice]

The Indians are

or at least they were the last time I looked a couple of years ago,

cos they have a lot more thorium ore than uranium.

Still a lot of end-of-life reactor waste though but they dont suffer run-away like, well you know , ,

The operating waste from fission reactors is not a problem, all our waste since the '50s is still in a few tanks, compare that to the billions of tons of carbon now in air The problem is the local population and their back yards.

My back yard is the world. I don't believe you. Sorry.

Olly

[spartan45]

Still don't know why they don't use Thorium.

Dave

All present day reactors take nearly 8 days from shut-down not to require powered cooling (Fukushima). In a Thorium molten salt reactor, dropping the molten salt from the carbon container into a holding tank below would quickly stop all activity. Afterwards the solid Thorium salt could be reheated and pumped up into the carbon container and the reactor restarted. There has been much talk of solar flares shorting out electric circuits and power lines, a similar result the water caused at Fukushima.

After the 4 reactors at Fukushima exploded (hydrogen gas build up) Japan began shutting down all remaining 46 reactors. In September 2013 all of Japans 50 reactors were finally shutdown, (a fact I only found out when enquiring as to why Japan’s balance of payments were so bad due to oil and gas imports – not through media coverage).

The Guardian Newspaper of Saturday 21 Dec 2013 reported the UK was publicly planning to build 12 new nuclear power stations while actually planning for 50 of Fukushima type design. I am not anti nuclear, but I am concerned we are planning to build 50 nuclear reactors of high pressure, low temperature (400 deg C) instead of low pressure, high temperature (800 deg C) which is the Thorium Molten Salt reactor. Professor Kirk Sorenson puts a good case for researching this design of nuclear reactor on UTube.  

I first got concerned about this after reading the fate of the Janos Planet (ref google). The Thorium Molten Salt Reactor might be the answer to our power needs. If this is in the wrong font - sorry - I'm having tech difficulties.

[Ptarmigan]

Until now, the majority of fusion reactor systems have used a plasma control device called a tokamak, invented in the 1950s by physicists in the Soviet Union. The tokamak uses a magnetic field to hold the plasm

and try getting a tokamak in your car

but you forgot to mention our Zeta (Cullham in the '50s) (yep, I remember how fusion was just round the corner even then !)  which also used a toroid magnetic bottle, predated the tokamak in the current family tree on the road to ITAR.

May even have predated tokamak itself  but the origins were shrouded in secrecy in those days and subject to history re-writing)

[Superdavo]

I really hope they get this working, not just for the power, but for the space-travel implications. We could have a fusion-powered system taking us to Mars in a very short length of time, and even the nearby stars would be within reach!

David

[Ptarmigan]

My back yard is the world. I don't believe you. Sorry.

Humour attempt no1 = you megalomaniac you, only the world  you say ?

Attempt no2 = didnt ask you to

But attempted humour can be very dangerous in text, so please disregard if either of the above offends,

I think nuclear, global warming and perhaps energy discussions in general should maybe added to the list alongside politics etc. cos it can soon get out of hand

[D4N]

Humour attempt no1 = you megalomaniac you, only the world you say ?

Attempt no2 = didnt ask you to

But attempted humour can be very dangerous in text, so please disregard if either of the above offends,

I think nuclear, global warming and perhaps energy discussions in general should maybe added to the list alongside politics etc. cos it can soon get out of hand

At least no ones mentioned street lights yet... Doh!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[nightfisher]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is truly a fascinating subject so lets all play nicely and keep some good input, rather than ending up with a locked thread

[ollypenrice]

Humour attempt no1 = you megalomaniac you, only the world  you say ?

Attempt no2 = didnt ask you to

But attempted humour can be very dangerous in text, so please disregard if either of the above offends,

I think nuclear, global warming and perhaps energy discussions in general should maybe added to the list alongside politics etc. cos it can soon get out of hand

Well, the idea that anything at all is non political is utterly silly because everything is political. Light pollution is routinely discussed here and is highly political. Local council policies are not political? Please explain.

No, I just don't believe nuclear waste is a non issue. One person says, 'I don't know if nuclear waste can be safely contained,' and another says, 'I know  nuclear waste can be safely contained,' and one is wrong. Which one?

There are experts, and there's Five Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima... and the dozens of unreported little whoopsies. They discovered at Sellafield, I gather, that three electric circuits which need to be independant for the gas coolers actually had a common component and weren't. No problem, they fixed it. Next time?

I believe that if a thing can go wrong it ultimately will. It's a pretty simple theory...

Olly

[Ptarmigan]

At least no ones mentioned street lights yet... Doh!

Heeehe, nice one !

A few miles from me a whole new town has grown up in the 30+ years I have been here, and they are all up in arms about the proposed new 400kV pylons and HinkleyC to give them their electric. You'd think that electric grew on trees.

Sorry if I sound jaded, , , at least they are good sports to turn it all off after midnight or thereabouts, but then they complain about , , , oh now look what youve done :)

[Ptarmigan]

OK Nightfisher /Jules   I'm done

for now

cos Olly didnt bite any humour.

[Ruud]

Weren't the same magnetics bottles tried before? I remember so, and also that it turned out that the Tokamak is the easiest way to contain a plasma long enough and at a high enough pressure.

It could be of course that an adaptive magnetic field controlled by a fast, modern computer might stabilize and contain a plasma well enough in a bottle.

I still remember Fleischmann and Pons and their cold fusion promise. That was, of course, just a flash in the pon.