The new streelights...

[emadmoussa]

Ah, well...before we start, regardless of how much we despise streetlights there's no need to mention air rifles...they're not useful, I'm thinking of an RPG at the moment. Nah, just kiddin'...yeah, the previous thread was shut down because of air rifles and so on.

Anyway, I have to say I'm kind of concerned about the future of DSOs astronomy with the advent of the LED lights. This is just my initial thought...

While the orange lamp at the bottom of my garden hasn't been replaced yet, the ones in the surrounding areas have. So I went for a quick walk using the brief clear night. I just wanted to see how they affected the night sky. I admit these lights are a lot more controlled than the wild orange ones, they tend to focus most of the light downwards in the shape of a pyramid.

If you're within their hot zone, especially if the bottom of the light is in your vision path...then that's a big problem. However, if you can block the actual light head itself, the sky on top of  is cleaner as there's noticeably less glow upwards. For the first time I can see a cleaner horizon on top of the ones in front of my house. The stars were more visible than before. Then again, my house is slightly higher than the nearby street. On the other hand, the street behind my garden is higher than the garden...so technically the light will be more intrusive. I'm just pre-empting. I'll wait and see what they're like.

One more thing, while they say they'll dim the light at least 25% after midnight, when I had a look around 1am, the lights were still as bright...no sign of dimming. Perhaps it's a system that will be active after the whole project has been finalized - we're near that. Who knows?!

Now...I have to say, I'm very concerned. I'm not sure what to expect....I couldn't test with a telescope as I don't have one around at the moment. But if these lights act like more controlled flood lights, then we're officially screwed. I'm refraining from upgrading my kit until the whole project has been finished....perhaps a month from now. Who knows?! It might turn out OK, or worst case scenario observing becomes very difficult and find myself not seeing a point of upgrading my kit.

I know I'm being pessimistic, but all in all...if none of these lights is visible from your back garden..then the skies will be better. If there's one in your way, then...I don't know...create a shield around you. Some sort of screen to block the actual source of light, because a little bit of exposure to these lights will compromise your night vision.

Let's hope for the best...please share your thoughts...and no air rifles. Machine guns are allowed though 

Emad

[Daniel-K]

You need to learn to drive and get out under some real dark skies I hardly ever observe now from home. We've had the same lights installed by us made a difference but not enough

[Pig]

We have them installed all around my area Imad and the are definitely an improvement. But your sentiments and concerns are justified.

I was observing in my front garden last night and the light outside my house does affect my night vision. My dew shield does a great job of keeping the light out and my session was not ruined as a result.

The LED lamp posts have made a massive positive impact If I observe in my rear garden where no street lights are visible.

[emadmoussa]

You need to learn to drive and get out under some real dark skies I hardly ever observe now from home. We've had the same lights installed by us made a difference but not enough

If don't make a lot of difference, then I'm happy. As long as they don't make things worse..

[emadmoussa]

We have them installed all around my area Imad and the are definitely an improvement. But your sentiments and concerns are justified.

I was observing in my front garden last night and the light outside my house does affect my night vision. My dew shield does a great job of keeping the light out and my session was not ruined as a result.

The LED lamp posts have made a massive positive impact If I observe in my rear garden where no street lights are visible.

That's not bad. I can always cover my head with something...but as long as the views are not obstructed..then...ah well..OK

[nightfisher]

It seems all threads relating to street lighting end up going downhill, regards to weapons/criminal damage, this is some thing we dont allow here so please any one posting on this thread keep this in mind.

We are in changing times regards to street lights, its not all bad news as a lot of councils are switching of at early hours times, i have not tried observing against LED lights, but time will tell, my guess is if it makes for a problem, then being mobile and going to a dark site could be the answer

[Alien 13]

I think your initial thoughts may be correct if you averaged the sky glow over an area of several streets then it does look lower than before but if you are near a hot spot then it could cause problems.

The ones i have localy do seem to be on taller posts than before meaning that i get direct illumination from one of them and it is very bright at 40 meters distance.

Alan

[emadmoussa]

Yeah, the ones here are taller....ouch!!!

[Alien 13]

Yeah, the ones here are taller....ouch!!!

The good news is that the light is not so diffuse so it easier to shield than before which is good for imaging but not so good for visual if you are moving around.

Alan

[emadmoussa]

The good news is that the light is not so diffuse so it easier to shield than before which is good for imaging but not so good for visual if you are moving around.

Alan

I was thinking some sort of movable screen...to stop the direct glare.

[Pig]

Another good point to make is there a only half the number of new lights in comparison to the older style sodium lights and is the main the reason why they are taller, the increase in their height gives a greater area of light coverage on the floor.

[emadmoussa]

Another good point to make is there a only half the number of new lights in comparison to the older style sodium lights and is the main the reason why they are taller, the increase in their height gives a greater area of light coverage on the floor.

You think? They replaced every single orange light with an LED light.... I honestly don't see the point.

[JED-E3]

A combination of a new neighbour cutting down all of the trees in his garden and a local trend for log burners smoking out my street mean my skies have got much worse in the last couple of years, the sodium lights on my street are supposed to be going off after midnight some time this year but that remains to be seen, I feel like the skyglow is closing in.

I hope things work out for you Emad.

James.

[Alien 13]

You think? They replaced every single orange light with an LED light.... I honestly don't see the point.

Same with mine in fact im sure theres more now to get the coverage, i think they sneak extra ones on road junctions etc.

Alan

[Pig]

You think? They replaced every single orange light with an LED light.... I honestly don't see the point.

If they are taller there should be fewer as this was one of the inputs into reducing any costs, not only are they cheaper to run but there are fewer of them IE double the benefit.

The LED itself also has a very much longer life than a standard lamp.

[emadmoussa]

If they are taller there should be fewer as this was one of the inputs into reducing any costs, not only are they cheaper to run but there are fewer of them IE double the benefit.

The LED itself also has a very much longer life than a standard lamp.

Then WE ARE DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!

[Alien 13]

I dont think we are doomed it might effect observers a bit more than imagers but some areas of the sky have improved.

Alan

[Pig]

If you guys think you have the same number then you should get onto your local councils as we are getting ripped off by the contractor. I know this is a condition because the company I worked for quoted for the work and I had to sign the quote off.

[DaveS]

I don't know.

They are replacing the old HPS lamps with LEDs round here. The weather's been too dire for a direct comparison, but on a night in Dec, the best clear night for ages I saw more stars in Orion than I had for years.

Unfortunately a combination of circumstances kept my mount and 'scope indoors. I could have cried with frustration. Instead I merely uttered a string of words in Anglo-Saxon that would have got me instantly banned.

[Wyvern]

I think your initial thoughts may be correct if you averaged the sky glow over an area of several streets then it does look lower than before but if you are near a hot spot then it could cause problems.

The ones i have localy do seem to be on taller posts than before meaning that i get direct illumination from one of them and it is very bright at 40 meters distance.

Alan

If you're in a LED's "hot spot" and get direct lighting from it to your observatory/viewing area, complain/nag/whine to your council and get them to install a shield as this is light "invasion". The light should be directed to the footpath and roadway, not your property which you don't want illuminated........and keep on until they do do something!

Les

[Mike73]

How about concentrating on aspects of astronomy that can handle light pollution like the planets, lunar and double stars and aim to get gear which are suitable for those objects and not DSO's?

[DaveS]

Well, I'm not that interested in lunar / planetary or double stars, and don't see why I should be forced into them by thoughtless councils.

I am, however going into NB imaging, which may just give me a chance.

[ronin]

They direct more light down so less upwrd pollution but you are still sat or stood in that pool of light, your eyes will react and most likely by reducing the iris aperture. As they are poly chromatic that will basically knock your dark adaption for six - are they a dim red light (No). And being poly chromatic the light cannot be filtered out.

The discussion of pollution and what goes upwards is one aspect but being in the light is another and the effect of that will be I suspect more negative, the need here is what reaction does the eye have to being in this pool of light. The situation is likely to be similar to walking into a lit room - you do not need to stare at the lamp bulb to lose your dark adaption.

Really the answer is to drive out some distance.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I'll never complain about light pollution in my location, having read many stories here from fellow SGL members. My back garden faces east/northeast. Its private and not over-looked by any neighbours and the only pesky orange street lights i suffer from are to the south about 2km away along a dual carraigeway. On a bad night the glow from them really messes up my southern view up to about 30 degrees. 

I'll be sorry to leave this house because the LP level seems so low. However, the place i'm moving to is much better. The location really is what you call "semi-rural", with acres upon acres of open country-side around me (even though i am a 10 min walk to the local town).

[Pig]

I'll never complain about light pollution in my location, having read many stories here from fellow SGL members. My back garden faces east/northeast. Its private and not over-looked by any neighbours and the only pesky orange street lights i suffer from are to the south about 2km away along a dual carraigeway. On a bad night the glow from them really messes up my southern view up to about 30 degrees. 

I'll be sorry to leave this house because the LP level seems so low. However, the place i'm moving to is much better. The location really is what you call "semi-rural", with acres upon acres of open country-side around me (even though i am a 10 min walk to the local town).

Its not an open prison by any chance