a sad tale

[niccodeamus]

Hi all

 

I am basically reposting this from the welcome page, where I used the post as an introduction.  It has quickly been suggested that I put it here...I have no idea how to repost a post...paste?

 

I have known for a while that a camera is a better tool for seeing than our eyes, and there is a lot that can be seen.  Nowhere appears to be more relevant for this than space.  I discovered, by accident, that the Milkyway shows up brilliantly in a long exposure, but immediately ran into the earth's rotation when trying longer focal length shots.

This, of course, presents a challenge, so I learn as much as I can, about tracking, stacking, and generally cracking up.  Thats pretty much where I left the situation for quite some time, deeply desiring a tracking device.

In January I read of the supernova in M82 and had to do something.  I built a barn door from a bit of plumbing and lego, reckoning anything must be better than nothing to increase exposure time, and I'd use a fast short tele lens.

I cannot get the hang of the dedicated astro programs, so i muddled a sort of stack in photoshop and this was the result.  not your typical first DSO but i patted myself on the back that I had photographed a supernova and moved to simpler targets

These are all small stacks, 4 or 5 images, (badly) hand aligned in photoshop, the subs would be up to 30 seconds tracked with the lego barn door using a Canon 5Dmk2 and a 135mm prime lens.

To cut to the chase a bit, as a result of my efforts I was offered,on long loan, an under used 250mm SkyWatcher Flextube on a Dob mount with auto tracking.  You may be able to imagine my excitement - Hubble was soon to be watching its back.  After some more learning and having to bodge the camera onto it I got this result

hand aligned from 5 images 8 to 13 seconds (auto darks) no flats or bias.  Alignment is getting better and i learned a good trick part way through the alignment of this, so it could be better, but isn't...;-)

So, wonderful, thinks I.  But I was wrong.  Beginners luck or something.  the thing WILL NOT track with any reliability or accuracy.  So frustrating.  More learning and I discover very few people have any luck with the Dob mount, its just not for imaging.  

I am, therefore, in a quandary.  Some can get good results, so perhaps it is possible.  Give up and try to find an EQ5 or something, make something more sophisticated.... or just give up

 

I should add that I also have a SW ED80 which I know is a good little tool, but I have the same tracking problem...so i offer up a little plea to experts as to what a recommended course of action might be

 

Nicco

[faulksy]

that is brilliant lovely natural captures on all. you must be so pleased

[wookie1965]

Love the Orion well all of them but Orion sticks out for me.

[Alien 13]

Great post i would say you have a natural talent, well done.

An EQ mount will solve your problems.

Alan

[niccodeamus]

Love the Orion well all of them but Orion sticks out for me.

thanks guys.

I was pleased with it too, but I cannot repeat it and frustration mounts.  someone should market a Frustration Mount....

so any advice on how to coax a Dob mount into something approaching civilised behaviour, or some really cheap but effective alternatives...

it would be interesting to try and get a mount that is good enough to track a 600mm focal for a minute.  I think that may satisfy my urge for a reasonable length of time

[Alien 13]

thanks guys.

I was pleased with it too, but I cannot repeat it and frustration mounts.  someone should market a Frustration Mount....

so any advice on how to coax a Dob mount into something approaching civilised behaviour, or some really cheap but effective alternatives...

it would be interesting to try and get a mount that is good enough to track a 600mm focal for a minute.  I think that may satisfy my urge for a reasonable length of time

I can push my mount to two minutes at 400mm FL but i tend to stay between 30s and 1 min most of the time an EQ5 should easily do that with your ED80.

Alan

[iksobarg]

Outstanding images my friend.

Sorry you can't recreate your success.

Love the frustration mounts bit.

You know your patience paid off. Just say it was worth it.

[Tim]

You may be able to get an EQ mount to track without problems for a minute or more, if you carefully polar align it, which can take quite some time out of the night to get good enough alignment.

BUT!!!  With the start you already have, 60 seconds isn't going to be long enough, you will crave longer exposures! And then you can upgrade to a guiding system and get exposures of 10, 20 or 30 minutes as required

Impressed with what you have from that setup though, well done.

Tim

[glowingturnip]

liking the widefield orion !

[Astrosurf]

These images are amazing with your set-up! I'm very impressed. (Your post made me laugh too!)

I don't know if you'd get field rotation with a motorised dob. That could cause problems stacking.

What trouble were you having with the astro stacking sw? Did you try Deep sky Stacker for these?

Alexxx

[Russe]

Nice images! Well done!

[jarlaxle2k5]

Hi there, have a look to my gallery (link in my signature).

All those pics have been taken with my 8" dob goto

I hope this can give you a bit of more motivation

[Astrosurf]

Hi there, have a look to my gallery (link in my signature).

All those pics have been taken with my 8" dob goto

I hope this can give you a bit of more motivation

Excellent pics. Added that to my favourites too!

[niccodeamus]

These images are amazing with your set-up! I'm very impressed. (Your post made me laugh too!)

I don't know if you'd get field rotation with a motorised dob. That could cause problems stacking.

What trouble were you having with the astro stacking sw? Did you try Deep sky Stacker for these?

Alexxx

Hi there, have a look to my gallery (link in my signature).

All those pics have been taken with my 8" dob goto

I hope this can give you a bit of more motivation

Many thanks for all your help.  I have a bit of an update from my Dobsonian tribulations ( in addition to the recalcitrant sky, its driving me nuts).

We had a beautiful clear blue sky day yesterday, so I dragged the Dob into the garden and put it on a slab that I have levelled up for the job.  Now, I have read the instructions so often that I think that I could recite them to the queen after 12 pints, and they clearly state that the mount remembers its latitude once set up.  Yesterday I redid the little routine, set scope to 0 degrees, switch off, switch on, raise to 51° (my latitude) press some buttons etc...

well, blow me if it didn't track quite well.  Had some usual wobbles for the first frame or 2 but then it settles down to be pretty steady for the 30 seconds that the EOS utility lets me use.  my excitement mounted....peering at the laptop, thinking I might actually get a result....

So, I think I may try and find M51.  looks cool.  can't be difficult, right next to the pan handle, goody good.

I look up from my fast cooling huddle.

overcast...I cannot believe it, how did that happen, are the astro gods [removed word] with me or what?

I give up, take the camera off, return the gear I like to the house, leaving the blameless 'scope out to the mercy of the elements, and out of spite, left it following some nameless star.  I went out for some dinner and plenty of consolation wine, occasionally popping out to see a clear starry sky.  I hate those astro gods.

On my return, the sky is remarkable clear.  much clearer than my brain.  but i set about the task - what could be complicated?  the scope had clearly moved, it had followed something.  I couldn't tell what as it was pointing at a building, perhaps it is a peeping scope, who knows.  Anyway, I slewed it round to Benetnash and started hunting for M51.  I couldn't see it, I couldn't see it through the spotter, I had to guess and shoot and guess and shoot.  GoTo, come to me....

It took 45 minutes, but it was found!  Shot 1, just moved mount, trailed.  Second, better.  Third, fantastic, fourth....whats happening??? Cloud?  wtf! 

end of evening....

so here it is, a stack of one blurry shot, one good one, and one cloudy one.  estimated time, 2 hours.  estimated frustration time, 1 hour 59 minutes, elation time, 30 seconds.  good if only for the evidence that the Frustration Mount may be good for a 30 second exposure!

I am not convinced this is a good pastime.

Astrosurf, I use a Mac.  I am not sure I can face the BootCamp or emulator situation just yet, so DSS is out.  there are some alternatives, I have looked at nebulosity and others, but I am a slow learner, especially of language and struggle with the new (to me) jargon and terminology and get very confused and frustrated.  At the moment I am getting reward from small stacks aligned in PS, which is turning out to be quite simple and the smart stack mode function is incredible.  fixes a multitude of horrors almost instantly.  I have to work out some better stretching methods, and maybe graduate to proper programs later if i can evade clinical depression.

jarlaxel, those are brilliant images.  You have the divine advantage of Goto....but I think you and providence has demonstrated that perhaps the mechanism isn't quite as Rubbish as I (and a man in a 'scope shop) thought.  I will press on for longer, so thanks for the increased motivation.

regards

[jarlaxle2k5]

True the GoTo is a bless.

Im delighted that you got a pic like that of M51 with so million troubles.

Another +1 for the Dobs

Keep it up mate you will do it

[Jon Sales]

Excellent shots!

Get a minimum of an EQ5 or equivalent with goto controller, learn to polar align and you will be able to increase your subs with you ED80 by a few minutes easily.

Keep at it and never give up.

[Astrosurf]

You got it! I could never have done that without a go-to. I tried with my old 6" years ago but gave up in disgust. Kudos!

There are some good star shaping PS tutorials on the Web to help you make your stars round. I found that the techniques can be a bit glitchy so use gently!

[niccodeamus]

two more sad efforts.  not tracking as well as the other night, but at least it stayed clear.  these were manual stacks of about 8 15 second frames, no flats or bias.  so few frames because it was trailing and high iso to shorten the shutter speed

the research continues....

what an insane pastime!

SW250 on a Dobsonian aka Frustration Mount

Canon 5Dmk2

[Astrosurf]

Great!

[Russe]

Lovely!

[ardbeg74]

HI Nicco,

 for the 30 seconds that the EOS utility lets me use. 

Is this a limitation of your camera? or the version of eos utility you are using?  You should be able to set it to bulb mode then hit the little stopwatch icon in eos utility and you can enter what ever exposure time you want. Can even tell it how many subs you want, the interval setting includes the sub time, so if you wanted say 5 sec between subs and you were doing 50s subs then you would set it to 55s. Its collecting  darks for me right now

HTH and fantastic pics btw.

Mark

[RT65CB-SWL]

Excellent images Nicco. Well done.

[Xplode]

Try BackyardEOS to control your camera, it will allow to you take exposures longer than 30s.

I think you really need a EQ mount with tracking, with your 5D II and 135mm you will be able to take stunning wide field images when you get it tracking nicely and get good focus.

EF 135mm f/2 is probably the sharpest lens you can buy without it costing insane amounts.

[nameunknown]

I would not give up if I were you. You have talent and are prepared to ask for advice. Those are the first steps to greatness.

P