Low power Televue EP's, recommended on their site

[HumptyMoo]

Evenin' all,

As I sit here wishing for clear skies and wondering why the ocean levels are supposedly rising (Surely they should be dropping? it's now floating above our heads and filling our rivers??), I am giving serious thought to purchasing a Televue low power EP.

I have been using the SW 25mm super MA that came with my scope and have to say it actually isn't a bad EP, however, spending the time in the low power range that I have, I feel very much that I would like a great low power EP.  This is the end of the magnification range that seems like it will be my bread and butter for years to come.

I am quite a pedantic, tunnel vision person when it comes to hobbies, I like to have the best or there about where ever possible. From all the opinions and rhetoric it seems very much that TeleVue hold the crown for EP's overall, albeit by a small margin in some cases (Obviously this is a point of contention which I understand and acknowledge so I will caveat that this is purely from the point of view I have formed in my research, which is more than likely flawed! ). 

Anyway, disclaimers and blahblah aside, the TV website offers recommendation for low power EP's for the 6" to 10" dob range of which I fall in the middle at 8", they are:

26mm Nagler Type5    46x 1.67°
or 35mm Panoptic       34x 1.85°
or 21mm Ethos            57x 1.73°

TV EP recommended web page

From the posts I have read, another contender would be the 24mm Panoptic, whenever I read peoples experience of it, it shines.

I really am ummming and ahhhing here, I have run the numbers for exit pupil, eye relief et all but being new to this game don't have a bundle of experience. I'm kind of thinking that although it's quite bulky the 35mm Pan would be pretty good, just over 5mm exit pupil so  in line with my current eye state, although a fair bit of observing will be done from home which is badly light polluted, I guess that narrows pupil size somewhat? In which case the ethos jumps up and....arrrrrrgh.....it's so tough to decide

I am in no great rush to purchase like I was when I wanted something better than the terrible 10mm that comes with the scope, the 13mm nagler was like stepping into a swimming pool of angel delight after that

I guess in short I'm saying I'm really undecided and would like some opinions/suggestions/experiences of the above short list if you have the time and inclination  Obviously, if I have missed some threads on this forum with regards to low power EP's that outperform TV equiv's I am open also.

Cheers peoples, I realise there are a lot of these threads, I think I probably read half of them over the last few weeks so no panic or rush on replies on my account 

Moo

[Moonshane]

you really cannot go far wrong in terms of optical quality with the three mentioned. when you say low power, you have referred to three eyepieces which are higher power, lower power and about the same power as your current 25mm.

all of the eyepieces mentioned might require a counterweight to balance them in an 8" dob as they are quite heavy. not insurmountable but something to ponder on. 

I had this dilemma a while ago and went for the 26mm Nagler. it's a peach of an eyepiece and in my view better than the 35mm Panoptic it replaced (for me). the reason for me was that I use f4 scopes and the Pan was a step too far.

the 24mm Panoptic is also really excellent and would create fewer / no balance issues.

going from my 26mm to my 13mm Ethos in my scopes is a delight. you might see similar with your Nagler. I feel the 35mm Panoptic might be too big a jump and you'd feel like you want something in between, not so with the other three mentioned.

Never used the 21mm Ethos for any length of time but it's good/impressive.

[John]

I use the 21mm Ethos and the 31mm Nagler and they are superb 

Very expensive though and there are eyepieces from Explore Scientific that get very close to the same performance for a lot less £'s. The ES 30mm 82 degree and the ES 20mm 100 degree for example.

I'm sure others will come up with some other money saving options too

[scarp15]

Another consideration would be a 27mm Panoptic, which might perform with better contrast under light polluted skies than say the 35mm Pan and will weigh less. The 35mm Pan is a superb eyepiece, however when I use to own one, it was only used under dark skies, as the exit pupil in my scopes was a little large (creating a grey background) for use at home. Whilst the 27mm Panoptic is in many ways excellent, my current low power eyepiece, same as Shane, is a 26mm nagler. Without a doubt one of the best there is under any observing sky circumstance.  

[HumptyMoo]

Thanks for the replies, just to add, that I had not really stated above, expense is not really an issue....not saying I'm flush or that I light cigars with £50 notes, just that given the years I hope to spend on this hobby, getting a good EP for the bread and butter viewing will be negligible cost if looked at for the period of time owned.

Like my PC, I custom build high end because I know that will last me many years, when aggregated over those years and the extra use I get from it I'm not actually spending a whole lot more overall. Not quite the same with EP's I know (for one it won't be directly linked to my job) but the principle is there, if it's going to keep me happy for a good number of years, spread over that time, it's worth the initial outlay....at least that's my reasoning anyway

Bulk is also a good point which I have kept in mind, I figure I could use methods suggested on this forum of magnet weights to counter if it turned out to be an issue?

Moonshane, I use low power in the terms of the suggestion from the TV website. I am not bringing the 25mm in to contention, from my point of view it can be replaced by one of the above or sit in another niche all by itself. I only mentioned it as a qualifier as to why I seek a "low" power EP as in I use the 25 most often and think the EP's above would change that with near certainty.

[HumptyMoo]

The 27 I was actually considering but I saw a few posts saying that "pin cushioning" was an issue with it? To be fair this is where my ignorance kicks in, I dismissed it based on something I didn't understand but seemed negative

[rl]

Have you considered the weight? All great eyepieces but around the 1 kg mark....is balance an issue?

RL

[HumptyMoo]

Bulk is also a good point which I have kept in mind, I figure I could use methods suggested on this forum of magnet weights to counter if it turned out to be an issue?

I have done yes, I have a set of n52 neodymium magnets which would hold 10kg with ease, so having a quick attach/detach counter weight is academic. The only thing I haven't taken into account is if that would strain the focuser. From what I gather the stop bolt under the SW200p focuser could be tightened a little to counter that?

[John]

I have done yes, I have a set of n52 neodymium magnets which would hold 10kg with ease, so having a quick attach/detach counter weight is academic. The only thing I haven't taken into account is if that would strain the focuser. From what I gather the stop bolt under the SW200p focuser could be tightened a little to counter that?

I used to use my Nagler 31mm with the 200P dobsonian and it's standard focuser handled it OK. The kn0b underneath the focuser allows the tension to be increased as you say. With a dob mount the eyepiece does not get into the sort of angles it does with an equatorial mount anyway.

The big Nagler showed over 2 degrees of sky with that scope 

[HumptyMoo]

Thanks for the info John, I will give the 31mm Nagler a going over in the specs/comparison, it sounds very intriguing!

[Pig]

I have the 31mm Nagler and it is cracking eyepiece, some say it is underutilised in my F10 scope. However, I invite anyone to come and have a look through it and If they are honest I know they will have to eat their words whilst their tail is between their legs.

The views observed through this low power large FOV eyepiece are nothing short of stunning.

It is a heavy eyepiece and this maybe of concern in a Dob. (I Manage with it in my Pronto  )

I totally agree with your amortised vein of thought of cost over time

[jetstream]

I am biased toward the Ethos because of the unreal immersive views they give-they are great but a little fussy on eye positioning.The contrast provided in my scope is fantastic-I have 3 Ethos and they are my DSO killers.The only one on your list that I would not choose for your scope is the 35mm Pan-exit pupil a bit big IMHO.The 26mm Nagler is said to be one of the best EP made and is not too heavy I think.Funny thing is a $74.00 18mm BCO competes with my 17mm Ethos but with a small FOV.... I just love that 21mmE on bright clusters,the other night the Double Cluster was mind blowing with the big E!

[Rustysplit]

I have the 27mm Panoptic and use it in my 14" f5 dob. I absolutely love it. The "pin-cushion" effect is there, but only noticeable when you are actually panning around star fields. It sort of gives the impression of looking out of a curved porthole. Some people have said that it gives them a seasick feeling. I find it totally fine, and when actually stationary on your target, well, the view is stunning. Sharp to the edges, good colour and very good contrast.

[swamp thing]

For me it would come down to convenience. If I owned an 8" Dob I reckon the 27mm pan would be the easiest to live with. It's lighter and will be less aggravation requiring less counterweighting. For me this would seal the deal.

I find that the more convenient your eyepiece the more it'll get used .

My 31mm T5 is a sublime eyepiece when it's in the focuser, but when coupled with my 10" Dob it's just aggro, constant faffing about with counterweights. For this reason I seldom use it in this scope.

[HumptyMoo]

Thanks for the feedback, I now have more to mull over than when I started. That's a good thing though as it's actually apparent that whatever I go with is going to be a good choice.

[Moonshane]

at this sort of quality the main compromises are to do with field of view, eye relief, exit pupil and weight. they (and some other excellent brands) will all have excellent sharpness, contrast, transmission and build quality.

all that said, there is still room in my collection for plossls and orthos. my recommendation is try to think of the way you will eventually go in terms of future scope purchases. then build a set that will cover them and also what you currently have. Personally, I see it as better to buy a different scope than a wider eyepiece than the ones I currently have. to some extent it's cheaper too.

here's the logic I used when building my set:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/188794-eyepiece-groups/

[alan potts]

Without trying to sound smug I have all of the eyepieces you mention, as good as they all are and any one would be excellent for what you ask. Of the four I would go for 26mm Nagler but the 24mm Panoptic is also very good and many say it is the best 1.25 inch 24mm on the market, me included.

All of these are very expensive and another EP I loved and regret selling is the 28mm Meade S5000 SWA, this would be a cheaper and very good secondbest.

Alan.

[NGC 1502]

The 27 I was actually considering but I saw a few posts saying that "pin cushioning" was an issue with it? To be fair this is where my ignorance kicks in, I dismissed it based on something I didn't understand but seemed negative

I too have the 27mm Pan.  The pincushion distortion is a trade off to get sharper off axis views. In my 10" F 4.8 Dob it's a non-issue for me, but is for others.

Personally, I'd not let the pincushion decide your choice.  I think the 26mm Nagler would be nicer, if the price isn't an issue.

Regards, Ed.

[HumptyMoo]

Thank you for the link to your other topic Moonshane, what you say there makes perfect sense. Right now I am looking (slowly and as best informed as possible) to build the core of my EP collection up, so am pretty much on your first stage.

The difference here is that I simply do not have room for more scopes right now and that will not change for probably a long time. So really, pretty much as your overall theme suggests I want the core EP's to be spot on for the donkey work and then can fill in the blanks as I go along.

Right now, simply from using the SW 25mm as much as I have already, I know a decent "low" power EP will get used a lot so it is an obvious purchase to pursue. My third in the group will be decided after a lot more viewing, when I find from a combination of the other EP's and the powermate which area I am finding lacking or missing.

Which basically leads me to saying thank you all for all and any information thrown my way in this thread and others, I am reading it all and giving it proper attention in my figuring.

[HumptyMoo]

On a completely unrelated note, I have added the Benny Hill theme music to my playlist, twice in a row I have dragged the scope down to the garden with clear sky, set it up and left it to cool, only to be greeted a while later by cloud....it sets the mood for dragging it all upstairs again

[Moonshane]

your point being??.....this is normal isn't it?

[John]

Only to find that the cloud has cleared by the time you have got the scope back in and it's warmed up again. Or that was how it was for me tonight at least 

Clear skies and glittering stars out there now ........ taunting me ! 

[Pig]

LoL  you have to laugh otherwise you would cry

I cant believe how clear it is again now, Sirius looks like it is going to explode

[HumptyMoo]

Haha (translation: Boohoo), from what I'm seeing here the cloud will clear just about the time I have to hit the hay....maybe Thunder&Blazes is the better theme music? (Circus big top music)

[allen g]

I have the 21 ethos and 31 nagler - these are great EPs.  The 21 ethos is my favorite and once you try it you are hooked - I think it is the finest EP ever made - absolutely pure quality. It doesn't get better.