Whatever happened?

[Moonshane]

"However, one should NOT dictate how someone else should spend their funds".

If someone starts a thread asking what is the best equipment you can buy with £X how can you answer without 'dictating how you would spend their money'; that's what most people starting such threads are asking people to do. if the OP's in such threads want to make their own mind up they will do their own research and make their own decisions based on such research and according to their budget. if they want a short cut and advice from the experienced community on SGL then they can follow it or not. personally, one reason I have not got into imaging is that I enjoy the visual side too much but another is that I know I don't have the budget or the time for the results of people like Olly Penrice et al. I cannot see the point of half measures but some people will be quite happy with lesser results/record shots. I for one would sonner carry on with visual and enjoy the labours of others.

I only give honest answers in such threads as I am sure most on SGL do. I am entitled to my opinion as much as you and the next man. I cannot see the point in anything else. If this offends then I regret it but would give the same answer again. 

[LukeSkywatcher]

I cant say that i have ever once seen anyone here "dictate" to another on what to buy or how much to spend. People come here asking our opinions on certain gear they are thinking of buying and the replies come from people who have used the same gear. If the person asking the questions is unsure of what they want but outline a few details, the next question from members is "whats your budget?".

Thats a fair question, as it impossible to recommend gear without knowing someone's budget.

Sometimes if the budget is a bit short to buy something, the advice given is to save a few more pounds/euros and get the gear you want instead of buying something else.

That is also very fair.There are also other factors such as portability etc.

Astronomy (be it visual or imaging), is an expensive hobby. How expensive?.................thats up to you and how much you can afford to spend. No one else can tell you that.

There is no shadow of a doubt that imaging is/can be a more expensive part of astronomy, but it all depends on your own personal level of satisfaction/expectations/dedication. 

Some imagers (believe it or not) have never looked through a telescope. They have all the computerised gear to take images and simply sit back from the comfort/warmth of their house or Obsy and let the gear do the work.

Thats perfectly fine, if that your thing. 

Imaging does not have to be that way. Most of us here (including VERY experienced imagers), have seen some astounding images taken by people with nothing more then a DSLR camera on a fixed tripod. 

Personally, i'm all about getting out there behind a scope an observing the universe with my own eyes. 

To each their own. Its not a competition or about keeping up with the neighbours. Its all about having fun and enjoying what you do and how you do it. 

I really really love viewing the images section of SGL, because it shows me things as i will never get to see them as purely a visual observer. It shows me things that i may never get to see as a purely visual observer.

[Steve 1962]

Interesting thread.

I'm one of the people who regularly quote the "HEQ5 minimum and short focal length refractor" as a guide and I feel the need to explain why.

I bought my first set of kit (an HEQ5 Pro and an f9 100ED) on the basis of a SaN review before I'd even heard of SGL. As soon as I plugged in my DSLR (which I already owned) and found out how hard it is to get anything like some of the superb images I saw in the magazines, I realised I'd made a "mistake" with the f9 scope, so I saved up for a shorter/ faster 70mm Apo.......on which I learned the basics of AP. The 100ED was relegated to guide scope.

I then moved onto a second hand 200P, the 100ED was sold to fund the purchase and the 70mm was relegated to guide scope. I personally found that collimation was a fag, I don't like diffraction spikes and it did very good impressions of a sail in the lightest of breezes (from a guiding point of view). 

I then saved up for a NEQ6 - which handled the 200P much better, but I still hankered for a v.nice fast 4" class refractor - no collimation and no spikes. In the end, I went for an FLT98 with an FT focuser.

I then saved up again and plumped for an Atik 460ex mono and all the filter paraphernalia.

Sorry that my potted history was a bit long winded, but the point I want to make is that I have experience of the HEQ5 and NEQ6, short refractors in the £200 and £2000 price ranges, a DSLR and a £3000 CCD kit.....and this what I always base my comments on. I have never even seen a CG5, so I would not dream of commenting on one - likewise with finder guiders and QHY cameras (although I did have a lot of success with a QHY5v as a guider and lunar camera) - I only ever discuss the kit that I know / use. In my book, this is all we owe to anyone - honest opinions based on personal experience.

I recognise that I am very fortunate to be able to afford some very nice kit and in sharing my personal experiences there is no intent whatsoever to dictate or pressurise people - I leave to it other people to recommend the kit they own or use, and rely on those asking for advice to manage their budgets.

Steve

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Anyhow. It´s getting late for me.

I think it´s good to have a discussion like this.

Hopefully we can all find a common middle ground somewhere and hopefully see that a newcomer doesn´t immediately need mid to high end Equipment to be satisfied.

I am pretty sure, as example, we can all agree that an QHY or Atik entry Level OSC CCD camera will blow any DSLR camera out of the water.

That a newcomer doesn´t need anything more expensive to achieve that effect. No?

Just some Food for thought.

Have a good night everyone. (No hard feelings whatsoever!)

( PS. With ´dictate´ you shouldn´t take it litterly. More in line, when you advice something as minimum, that pretty much is dictating towards the OP no? That´s what I meant With dictating. )

ugh.... now off to bed.  

[gkec]

I think it is exactly because there are so many threads on so many fora with so much written in so many places all over the interwebby that folk need to ask a simple question amongst friends and get a quick answer or three !

I think the idea behind these "starter" sections is great, the best thing since (insert variety of bread)

No one need feel "oh I dare not ask this, they all know, but I am an idiot for not knowing"

In fact there was a thread recently where someone said - in these starter sections - I paraphrase - "oh I have answered this so many times already I am not going to bother any more"

Yeh, no prob, just dont bother, but please dont bleat about it, not here, elsewhere yes maybe,

(apart from anything else it is immodest !)

And every answer starts with "buy a copy of every photon counts"  and/or " get rid of your Dob".

[HumptyMoo]

This is basically moot imo. If someone asks for an opinion or advice and they get 3 responses they will basically go with the one that most accurately describes the answer they were looking for. To expand, if I ask: "Hi, I have a grand to spend, I want the best I can get for AP with xyz scope, please advise" I am going to look at the replies and gravitate into whatever is acceptable to me. I certainly won't be ringing up my CC provider asking if they'd accept my house as a guarantee because some woman/bloke off a forum said I needed 6k just to photograph the moon.

There is no issue here imo, people ask, people advise, people take from it what they will. If you feel that advice isn't sound, make it your vocation in life to be that 4th response that offers sensible budgetary concerns. No offence intended, I just struggle to see the problem

[Tim]

Getting top end kit is no guarantee of top end results, far from it. Also, have a lower budget rig doesn't not mean inferior results. But often we get new members all excited but with unrealistic expectations of what they will/can achieve. This is one reason we like and encourage people to include their equipment details when posting images.

Sometimes there is a trade off. Spending a little more can, sometimes, reduce the steepness of the learning curve, or lessen the number of steps involved in obtaining nice images, as a lot of people are too busy to spend hours and hours learning their trade, not to mention the severe lack of clear skies the northern hemisphere has enjoyed lately. It can't be wrong to offer this advice to those who ask about what kit to buy surely?

Your frustrations are easy to understand though. In a few years astrophotography will be a lot cheaper than it is now, and easier to get into, probably with results on a par with those produced by top end gear today. And those of us who learned the game with manual guiding via an eyepiece will look back in disbelief! But there will still be very expensive kit available then too I guess!

Just out of interest, what items are you requiring? Perhaps we can help?

Cheers

Tim

[Ptarmigan]

And every answer starts with "buy a copy of every photon counts"  and/or " get rid of your Dob".

Heheee ! yer, that's true !!

and no, I have not yet bought it, possibly because everyone keeps telling me to do so and I'm a reactionary , , , thingy !

[GuillermoBarrancos]

This is basically moot imo. If someone asks for an opinion or advice and they get 3 responses they will basically go with the one that most accurately describes the answer they were looking for. To expand, if I ask: "Hi, I have a grand to spend, I want the best I can get for AP with xyz scope, please advise" I am going to look at the replies and gravitate into whatever is acceptable to me. I certainly won't be ringing up my CC provider asking if they'd accept my house as a guarantee because some woman/bloke off a forum said I needed 6k just to photograph the moon.

There is no issue here imo, people ask, people advise, people take from it what they will. If you feel that advice isn't sound, make it your vocation in life to be that 4th response that offers sensible budgetary concerns. No offence intended, I just struggle to see the problem

When someone is new and inexperienced, it might be harder than you think to filter out what is good advice and what isn´t.

Hence, why it can be very discouraging and off putting when such person is stonewalled with unecessary heavy (an unrealistically Budget wise) advice.

/slap myself in face now. need to go to bed grrrrr.

[Ptarmigan]

So, G. has gone to bed (chicken!) so now I can go to the starter equipment section

and ask which eyepiece would compliment the stock Nexstar 8SE 25mm jobbie

and if someone were to suggest something costing more than the scope I need not fear causing G. to have a heart attack ?

:)

How we do take these things so seriously  !

[steppenwolf]

And every answer starts with "buy a copy of every photon counts"

Hmmm, can't see too much wrong with that :grin:

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Just out of interest, what items are you requiring? Perhaps we can help?

Cheers

Tim

I started the topic not for myself, but for others.

I have my N EQ6 Pro already incoming and have a few Scope / CCD camera options in mind for june (when my big holiday payout comes in ). Just not sure what to settle on yet. All Depends what I am allowed to spend (my other half you know ).

[gkec]

Heheee ! yer, that's true !!

and no, I have not yet bought it, possibly because everyone keeps telling me to do so and I'm a reactionary , , , thingy !

Me neither because I think know better but my images suggest otherwise.

[Tim]

I am pretty sure, as example, we can all agree that an QHY or Atik entry Level OSC CCD camera will blow any DSLR camera out of the water.

That a newcomer doesn´t need anything more expensive to achieve that effect. No?

Funnily enough, I don't agree! I have experience of QHY and Atik CCD's (currently have 3 Atiks, sorry :/ ) but I think my next camera for astro use is going to be a Canon 600D.

Results from CCD's have been on a plateau for some time now, whereas DSLR's have much greater investment in their development and capabilities, and a DSLR in the right hands will hold it's own in any company. Just ask Mr Lodriguss!  http://www.astropix.com/

Sleep well, and thanks for starting this enjoyable thread

[GuillermoBarrancos]

So, G. has gone to bed (chicken!) so now I can go to the starter equipment section

and ask which eyepiece would compliment the stock Nexstar 8SE 25mm jobbie

and if someone were to suggest something costing more than the scope I need not fear causing G. to have a heart attack ?

:)

How we do take these things so seriously  !

Not yet! Almost one foot in lol.

My heart is steady at 60 bpm. No probs here.

[Alien 13]

I think some peoples perceptions of what is a minimum xyz is different to others there is no way a HEQ5 is a minimum a barn door tracker does that it all depends on what someone wants to image if its widefield with a camera lens then there are various cheaper options available, longer focal lengths require more sophistication it all a matter of scale.

There are so many variables involved in astro imaging and they all need to be taken into  account.

Alan

[Ptarmigan]

Not yet! Almost one foot in lol.

My heart is steady at 60 bpm. No probs here.

I'll just go get my pills

G'night

[gkec]

Hmmm, can't see too much wrong with that :grin:

There is another forum that I occasionally visit which appears to have one poster who welcomes every new member. (And there are lots)   Perhaps you can welcome every new imager member with a message advocating that they buy "Every Photon Counts".   (This is a joke but you are welcome to try and I might buy it)

[Ptarmigan]

Hmmm, can't see too much wrong with that :grin:

Oooops ! Who woke you up :)

[Ptarmigan]

that they buy "Every Photon Counts".   (This is a joke but you are welcome to try and I might buy it)

No need, you're doing a grand job, your complementary copy should be with you soon

[gkec]

No need, you're doing a grand job, your complementary copy should be with you soon

Result

[steppenwolf]

Oooops ! Who woke you up :)

An automatic alarm siren sounds here when the words 'photon' and 'count' appear in a new post :grin:

[todd8137]

I disagree a little because most people will ask what do I need to image galaxies ,nebula ect ,the main answer of who ever is always what's your budget ?am sure no one will say ,you need a tak and 5k mount it's unrealistic some have deep pockets and well paid jobs if you can make credit card payments why not make use of them let's keep things happy we all have the same goals

I do not think any one would expect some one to spend 5 grand plus if just starting out as a said every one always asks about the budget and answers with the appropriate kit

Pat

[gkec]

An automatic alarm siren sounds here when the words 'photon' and 'count' appear in a new post :grin:

The words should be "new" "imaging".  Those who write "photon" "count" already know.  

[Ptarmigan]

Those who write "photon" "count" already know.  

To know that is a quantum of s , ,

oh no I cant believe I even 1/2 thort that

time I joined G.B

in going to bed, not in ,