do i expect to much

[leader of the starry skys]

hi I have a dobsonian 150p 6", when I first asked about this , everyone said what a brill scope for a 1st one , I can see m31 but not clearly just like a dense mist  or fog or splodge,  is this right or is it just cause im using basic lens what came with it , I bought a vixen npl 8mm eyepiece , still  asplodge , got a barlow x2 a basic one , I can see m31 just as good with 10 x 50 binocs,  ....... so my point is , am I using it right , and just expecting to much , or badly need new eyepieces or would it be best to get 15x70 binocs or sell my dob and get something a bit better , I did manage to see Saturn in july which was amazing, but I thought id get a better view of m31

[Crebles]

Visually, a faint grey smudge is a good result!!! Unlikely to be a problem with your scope. Most people report feeling a bit disappointed when they first set eyes on M31 (i know I did). Its only in Astrophotography Land that you see amazing images of a nearly-edge on spiral galaxy with colours and dust lanes and so on. Don't sell you kit just yet - keep going, at least until you're really sure which way you want to head. I've been underwhelmed by Barlows, they just seem to make an object fuzzier and harder to see. Get or borrow yourself a copy of Turn Left at Orion - it gives a sense of what youre actually likely to see, visually.

[AstroJOE]

There's an excellent 'pinned' post at the top in the 'Getting Started with Observing' section which will help you understand what you can expect to see. A 'splodge' as you describe it is pretty normal with most amateur scopes I'd suggest. Sometimes you can pick up more detail such as dust lanes under dark skies, particularly with larger scopes but nothing like the images you see on here or in text books.

Don't be disappointed though, just think for a second about what that 'splodge' really is and take a second to appreciate just how far away it is! That's what gives me the satisfaction with most DSO's I observe.

[nmoushon]

M31 will appear as an elogated smudge. It will look like that in all smaller scopes. Its not till you get to the large ones that you will start to see a bit of definition in the arms. It also helps to have a really dark sky. LP is a real killer.

Not sure if you are or not but you can't compare what you see in your scope to what you see in images you get with a camera. Our eyes just aren't that good.

[Charic]

Leader of the Starry Skys............Mines a bigger splodge with the 8" For me I believe its the conditions. A lot of street light pollution here. I cant see M31 with naked eye, but can find easily enough with the 7x50`s, using averted vision, and I get a slightly larger image using the Skyliner and 8mm BST starguider. But thats it, no real definition to the haze, and I can  make out M110 next to it. I dont see spiral arms or any colour contrast like you see in the glossies? I can see Jupiters surface ok ( as an aside)  so I`m certain if I used a much higher focal length at a much darker site, my view of M31 may improve slightly, but not from my backyard.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

dont get depressed with the views on nebulae,they will be just a smudge,even in 10" donsbonian. Try locating globular clusters like M13 and you will start loving your scope.M42 or orion nebulae will be nice in any size of scope.Double stars,planets,globular clusters are my main targets when i observe from my back garden i never bother with nebulae as light pollution kills the views.Again,try getting out to some real dark places where no street lights,city lights are visible and you will be amazed how much more detail you will see even in M31.

Clear skies!

[spaceboy]

Not a big fan of galaxies myself. There are some that will offer faint detail in larger scopes under dark skies but for the best part they are all faint smudges. I much prefer open clusters, globulars and nebulas (of all types). Again though these objects take patience to tease out all the little details that so many beginners often over look.

[leader of the starry skys]

thanks , I don't mind so much now that I see a splodge, just wanting that piece of mind I suppose , yes I shall have to start searching for other stuff now, ibought It mainly for ison , which hopefully in about week or so might be able to see,   as for dark skies , well im in the country side in a little village , I back onto a field so light pollution not to bad , thanks for your help and guidance , feel happier now

[brantuk]

M31 is a naked eye object - but it entirely depends on seeing conditions and equipment choice. Under transparent skies and from a very dark site you should see a little more than just a splodge with your 150P. It looks like a dim star by eye but with bins it has a definite eliptical shape and a bright core. With a 150P newt you need low magnification - and 8mm eyepiece puts you up at 150x mag which is far too much - try 50x mag, make sure you're eyes are well dark adapted, and view from a very dark site on a very clear night. Use averted vision by all means but the longer you carefully scrutinise it the more you'll see. Setting up a scope is a skill, so too is choosing the right conditions, and learning how to pick an eyepiece and observe your object is no less a skill than the first two.

You're having a familiar experience that I and a lot of others had when we were new to the hobby. It's too easy to think you need to ramp up the mag to see stuff, and end up disappointed. But in fact you need to choose the right magnification for each and every object you view cos they're all varying sizes and varying brightnesses. You aren't expecting "too much" but you are expecting "unrealistically for your level of experience". Don't sell the scope - but persist with learning how to observe and you'll get much more enjoyment. Hth

[Big_Daz]

Unfortunately our eyes are no good at making out the colour of some of these deep sky objects. The retina contains two types of photoreceptors, rods and cones. The rods are more numerous, some 120 million, and are more sensitive than the cones. However, they are not sensitive to colour. The 6 to 7 million cones provide the eye's colour sensitivity and they are much more concentrated in the central yellow spot known as the macula. In the centre of that region is the " fovea centralis ", a 0.3 mm diameter rod-free area with very thin, densely packed cones.

[Beulah]

I recall that double stars look marvelous through a 6" Dobsonian. When I owned one for a while the colours of Albireo looked vibrant compared to telescopes of larger apertures.

You could also take the very portable telescope out to darker skies and observe before you decide what to do. It can take many nights to explore the full potential of a telescope when you factor in that seeing and transparency can vary a lot.

[Astro Imp]

I was one of the lucky ones the first time I viewed M31 from my moderately light polluted garden it looked brilliant, a really bright core fading away to nothing filling the FOV, M110 was clearly seen looking like a small finger print. Unfortunately I have never seen it so well again. Was just lucky to have a brilliant transparent sky on that occasion. Most of the time when I look it is just as you describe.

[ronin]

M31 is big, too big to fit in the view of your scope with an 8mm eyepiece.

To get all M31 in your need a magnification of about 20x.

Otherwise all you will have in view is the central core which could be accurately described as a "bright" (still actually dim grey) splodge.

At a guess a 25mm eyepiece will be too powerful, consider a 32mm one, but even that may be too much.

Best advice is go find an easier galaxy, M31 although the nearest and brightest is a pain in the rear. Like yourself people expect it all to be in view, and simply it will not be. So you get an odd image that is actually just a bit of it. As you say binoculars often work better simply because they fit the whole grey splodge in.

If your scope is 1200mm FL then for a 3 degree view you need a 60mm eyepiece, so going to be difficult to view it all at once.

[AndyWB]

I'd suggest trying to get somewhere really dark. I had an interesting comparison recently between my 5" and new 10" scopes looking at M31. This was in the middle of town, so light pollution is pretty bad. The 10" was, well, a slightly larger, slight brighter, fuzzy splodge. It didn't exactly blow the 5" away. I realised that this was that with all the light pollution in the atmosphere there simply wasn't enough contrast.

However, I've looked at M31 with the 5" from dark locations, and it was a sight to see. Filled my lowest power eyepiece from one side to the other, with M32 and M110 clearly visible too. Magnificent. It was at the end of a session in July, so I wasn't even in astronomical darkness, but I'd been away from all lights & torches for several hours.

So yup, I'd try and get somewhere dark and away from light pollution, take your time, turn off any lights and let your eyes get properly dark adapted.

Did you notice M32 nearby? I guess with an 8mm EP, you might not have had the field of view to catch it?

[leader of the starry skys]

hi thanks for response- I was also using 10mm and 25mm lens that came with scope, I bought the 8mm ,    but yep I think I will try one the other way and get a 40mm or 50mm or 60mm I shall see how mmy budget is. we have got a dark spot near us ,it was on tv about it . its at llantony priory in golden valley ,only trouble is your in a valley so low stuff is out the question , but I bet you would get a good view of m31 it should be high enough    

                                                                                                                                     thanks again to everyone

[Moonshane]

good posts and advice above.

your scope is an f8 so assuming you stick to an exit pupil (eyepiece focal length in mm (e.g. 40mm) / focal ratio of your scope = f8) of about 6mm max you could in theory use an eyepiece of f8 x 6mm = 48mm. the problem is that you get the maximum field in 1.25" eyepieces in a 32mm plossl and in 2" eyepieces in a 41mm 70 degree eyepiece like a 41mm Panoptic. I'd not base your eyepiece purchases on one object like M31 which is 3 degrees or so across. Not that many commonly observed objects are this large and the vast majority will fit within a 1 degree field = 50x magnification = 25mm Plossl approx. I think a 32mm plossls would be a good buy for you.

[Swedeman2013]

For me seeing another galaxy 2 1/2 MILLION light years away is astonishing even if few details are visible. As stated, moving to a darker location absolutely brings out more from Andromeda, it makes a huge difference getting away from city lights.

[Stargazer_00]

M31 will appear as an elogated smudge. It will look like that in all smaller scopes. Its not till you get to the large ones that you will start to see a bit of definition in the arms. It also helps to have a really dark sky. LP is a real killer.

Not sure if you are or not but you can't compare what you see in your scope to what you see in images you get with a camera. Our eyes just aren't that good.

In fairness M31 is still a smudge in my 14" dob from my garden.  It's just a brighter splodge than my other scopes is all!