EQ8 - Installation and Commissioning

[Zakalwe]

The washers (I assume) are under comperssion, having had the bolts tightened down on them. They won't go anywhere. They don't look pretty, but they won't budge if the bolts are tightened down.

Galvanic corrosion? The last time that I looked telescopes are rarely used under the sea. It is nothing to be concerned about, and it if was, then the mount itself would be my first concern, not the pier head.

If you wanted to get all [removed word] on it, then cut a section of RHS the same diameter as the pier and clamp it between top and bottom plates, again using the bolts to clamp it down.

There was another thread on here where someone calculated how much a teflon pad would deform and cause bad tracking.

Here's the standard EQ8 pier head:

Note the thickness of the pads and that they appear to be held in with a blob of glue/silicon. No issues with flex here then.

Gina, keep going lass. You are doing a great job!

[Gina]

Come on Olly, there is a bolt going through them.

A real risk taker would have a bare nut and bolt, and a couple of free-standing stacks of washers each side! 

Thanks for all the info Gina, this is really interesting stuff, can't wait for some output - when is the cloud zapper being delivered?

keep it up,

Jack

A cloud zapper now that would be a real boon - could certainly do with one of those   Don't know where I can get one, do you?

[Tinker1947]

While the washers used as spacers are as untidy as it gets they work,there solid, adjustable and if you don't have the tools to DIY it there a lot cheaper than getting it fabricated in a factory.....

[stephen_usher]

As a contrast, here is my pier top plate (currently with a Celestron CGEM on top):

It uses six bolts with nuts and washers to level it. Usually I only use three of the bolts to actually do the levelling and then the other three are tightened afterwards.

I'm planning on asking our workshop at work to fabricate an adapter plate for the EQ8, similar to the commercial adapter plate for the CGEM.

[Gina]

Gina, Why the hell did you use washers????  Why didn't use bigger bolts with a nut and washer under and over the plate to allow leveling?

Those washers will not give you stability. Those washers look so amateurish. Never ever, undersize stability for cost.

While it appears you are making a big deal of setting up this mount, you end up using washers!  WHY???.

So while I'm not telling you how to suck eggs,  Steel and Alum with your wet and humid climate will case corrosion, as the ali will be slowly eaten away with steel rust.

My suggestion is to use 12mm or even 16mm SS bolts, washers and nuts.

What are you going to swing on this mount anyway?

As for me, I've been in astronomy for 60 years. My trade was a Boilermaker/Welder.  During my time I've built many Eq. mounts and big ones at that, so I think I now what I'm on about.

I've had my EQ8 for 3 weeks and while it has some faults (which you will soon find out)  the EQ8 is made for work. It's a big mount and deserves a better set up than what you have.

Other than that, It's good see another happy EQ8 customer.

James

Thank you for your reply James

Firstly, I am NOT making a "big deal" of this - just posting as much information as I can to since our reader express appreciation of plenty of detail and lots of photos.

The use of washers with much greater OD than nuts and/or bolts was for greater stability and rigidity and actually cost more than nuts.  I have been using the same with my NEQ6 and nobody has said this was a bad idea.  OTOH I am looking into other ideas as I may want to increase the height.

[Gina]

I was thinking the same thing... Washers... Now that it is out in the open you're going to get battered to pieces in this thread

My pier design for both the balcony obs, the one in France and the one in the Stockholm archipelago, is based entirely on steel and a clever top design that is completely flat. The bolts are welded onto the bottom of the top plate. Also, no washers, or at least no stacks of them

I really do recommend the design!

/per

Image of the short version for remote obs, five minutes after completion:

That is a superb pier and I like the welded construction   Wish I had the facilities for welding.  Some people might say I'm trying to do too much with my limited engineering facilities and abilities.

Now that I have had adverse opinions on my washers approach, I shall certainly be looking into other ideas.  Maybe M16 is a bit on the small side for the connection between plates - I'll look at increasing that.

[Gina]

Now, that is what I call a practical head top.

One thing we must all remember. The weight of the mount and scope bears down closer to the centre of the plate, so the bolts should be closer in. But, if the plate is thick and I mean thick... >16m and the bolts are same thickness as the plates, then no problem.

So Gina, please take note of this setup here and removed those washers.

Point(s) taken and noted.

[Gina]

Here's a close up of my EQ8 system. The EQ8 pipe pier is actually inside the 10" dia. steel pipe 900mm high which has three only, 1" foot adjusting bolts with nuts under and over the 1" pier and base plates.Close up of EQ8 to main pier.jpg

The next pic is the 500kg payload  GEM I built 33 years ago. It carries a 12" F15 C/Cass. C8 G/scope. 80mm finder. a GOTO 4" refr. and a Pentax 67 400/4 adapted to Nikon and we have a Canon 40D mod. DSLR for the cass.Homemade GEM 500 Kgs payload.jpg

The next pic is that of the C14 fastar system. Note the additional c/weights. The EQ8 is now carrying 68 kgs and the mount doesn't even know it. I can now do up to 15 mins. unguided exp.  thanks to a perfect PA and balance. Until the Skyscan firmware is fixed. do your PA manually and learn from it.C14 fastar on EQ8.jpg

Finally, that is I, at the controls of EQ8, Titan 50, EQ6 Pro and the Paramount GT1100.SRO Control Room.jpg

WOW! - that sure is SOME SETUP   Great engineering

[Gina]

That's a 10mm thick steel plate. The closer in the bolts are, the harder to make small adjustments. My mounts (the 10Micron ones) are very sensitive to errors in leveling as they calculate all errors in the rig (ortogonality, polar and predictable flexure). I promise you, that steel plate does not bulge in any way.

Having the bolts closer to the center also makes the top wobblier. Nah, I will keep them as far out as possible, use short ones, and always do them in thick enough steel. My bolts are M12 by the way.

/per

Interesting that you find M12 bolts sufficient

[Gina]

The washers (I assume) are under comperssion, having had the bolts tightened down on them. They won't go anywhere. They don't look pretty, but they won't budge if the bolts are tightened down.

Galvanic corrosion? The last time that I looked telescopes are rarely used under the sea. It is nothing to be concerned about, and it if was, then the mount itself would be my first concern, not the pier head.

If you wanted to get all [removed word] on it, then cut a section of RHS the same diameter as the pier and clamp it between top and bottom plates, again using the bolts to clamp it down.

There was another thread on here where someone calculated how much a teflon pad would deform and cause bad tracking.

Here's the standard EQ8 pier head:

Note the thickness of the pads and that they appear to be held in with a blob of glue/silicon. No issues with flex here then.

Gina, keep going lass. You are doing a great job!

Thank you Mark

Yes, the washers are under compression.  I have used the same system with the NEQ6 and quite often drenched in dew with little corrosion.  Where the paint has become chipped on the steel discs there is slight sign of rust and the galvanised nuts, bolts and washers no longer look bright as they did when new.  I think a good coat of paint is well worthwhile on the bare mild steel and I shall repaint with flat black Hammerite.  I may put some sort of plastic (maybe thin PTFE) between mount and top plate but with the centre bolt quite tight, the AZ adjustment is easy enough with the mount running on the Hammerite paint surface.  One reason for adding some plastic would be that the paint would take weeks to harden and I don't want to wait that long to use the mount and I don't want the mount stuck to the pier plate with paint

[pete_l]

The use of washers with much greater OD than nuts and/or bolts was for greater stability and rigidity and actually cost more than nuts.  I have been using the same with my NEQ6 and nobody has said this was a bad idea.  OTOH I am looking into other ideas as I may want to increase the height.

I can't see a big deal to it either. If it works, excellent! if it doesn't it's not a big matter to make some alterations. Either way, thank you for posting all this information as it adds to the sum of human knowledge . Either by showing us (another) method of mounting on a pier, or saving people time with an illustration of a technique that doesn't work.

As it is, you've been using this for some time so it seems pretty sound. Keep us posted on how the EQ8 runs in practice.

[RogerTheDodger]

I thought the use of washers was a good idea - makes it all the more rigid, and it'll be something I'll be retro-fitting to my pier when I remember to buy the washers...

I had similar "wisdom" given to me when I made my brick pier - it works perfectly well as all the forces that need to considered are compressive straight down the centre of the pier, there are no torsional forces as the scope moves slowly even at full slew with no sudden braking, and there are no lateral forces as the scope and mount are balanced. 

If it works, it works. just remember that there are a lot of mobile imagers that use the tripod that comes with a HEQ6 and no-one refers to that as sturdy

[Gina]

I can't see a big deal to it either. If it works, excellent! if it doesn't it's not a big matter to make some alterations. Either way, thank you for posting all this information as it adds to the sum of human knowledge . Either by showing us (another) method of mounting on a pier, or saving people time with an illustration of a technique that doesn't work.

As it is, you've been using this for some time so it seems pretty sound. Keep us posted on how the EQ8 runs in practice.

Thank you Pete

I agree that piles of washers look untidy but, yes, the method has worked well with the NEQ6.  I'm now looking at other methods.  For one thing I would like to use countersunk heads in the top plate, for several reasons.  Unfortunately I can't seem to find any longer than 50mm so I'll have to get the height by using stud connectors and threaded rod.  Not really any tidier than piles of washers   But I'm not bothered by the appearance if it works.

[Gina]

I thought the use of washers was a good idea - makes it all the more rigid, and it'll be something I'll be retro-fitting to my pier when I remember to buy the washers...

I had similar "wisdom" given to me when I made my brick pier - it works perfectly well as all the forces that need to considered are compressive straight down the centre of the pier, there are no torsional forces as the scope moves slowly even at full slew with no sudden braking, and there are no lateral forces as the scope and mount are balanced. 

If it works, it works. just remember that there are a lot of mobile imagers that use the tripod that comes with a HEQ6 and no-one refers to that as sturdy

Thank you Roger

[Gina]

I now have the MN190 mounted - photo(s) to follow.  And the EQDIR lead has arrived so I think I now have all I need to take images   Celestial ones will have to wait for the weather though

[pete_l]

Thank you Pete

I agree that piles of washers look untidy but, yes, the method has worked well with the NEQ6.  I'm now looking at other methods.  For one thing I would like to use countersunk heads in the top plate, for several reasons.  Unfortunately I can't seem to find any longer than 50mm so I'll have to get the height by using stud connectors and threaded rod.  Not really any tidier than piles of washers   But I'm not bothered by the appearance if it works.

Wot, like this:

M8 x 150 Socket Countersunk Screw DIN 7991 A2

[Gina]

Wot, like this:

M8 x 150 Socket Countersunk Screw DIN 7991 A2

Yes but much thicker   M16.

[Gina]

Here are photos of the MN190 on the EQ8 pointing in various directions.  Firstly in the HOME position and then at the lowest elevation in other directions.  A slightly higher pier top would be beneficial.  The 460EX and EFW2 have been mounted on the scope and the mount balanced but I havent connected all the cables in the umbilical as yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gina]

If the weather permits I'm hoping to power up this afternoon

[stephen_usher]

You've got a nice location there Gina. Good clear horizons.

Being in a housing estate I don't quite have the same level of view. Indeed, anything beyond due south lower than 50 degrees is behind next door and by SSW anything below 80 degree altitude is behind my house. I can't see much below 20 degrees altitude in any direction. (I won't even mention the light pollution!)

[Gina]

You've got a nice location there Gina. Good clear horizons.

Being in a housing estate I don't quite have the same level of view. Indeed, anything beyond due south lower than 50 degrees is behind next door and by SSW anything below 80 degree altitude is behind my house. I can't see much below 20 degrees altitude in any direction. (I won't even mention the light pollution!)

Thank you Stephen   Yes, this is a lovely spot   Though less so when the weather is bad!  It's pretty exposed here and we often get the horizontal rain

[Oddsocks]

Hi Gina,

Looking good...

Here is a supplier that sells M16 CSK S/S bolts individually.

http://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/A2_ScrewBolt_SHCsk_M16.html

William.

[stephen_usher]

Thank you Stephen   Yes, this is a lovely spot   Though less so when the weather is bad!  It's pretty exposed here and we often get the horizontal rain

Having lived in West Cornwall for a time (and my parents still living there) I know what you mean... and the drenching drizzle. :-)

[Davey-T]

That is a superb pier and I like the welded construction   Wish I had the facilities for welding.  Some people might say I'm trying to do too much with my limited engineering facilities and abilities.

Now that I have had adverse opinions on my washers approach, I shall certainly be looking into other ideas.  Maybe M16 is a bit on the small side for the connection between plates - I'll look at increasing that.

I think you really need to buy some sort of welder MIG , TIG, ARC, Gina, comes in handy for all sorts of things, easy enough to learn as long as you're working on new steel (laying upside down trying to weld rusty vehicles is another matter   )

Dave

[perfrej]

Hmm... I think you have your camera sticking out the wrong way. For balancing it is much better to have top or bottom (I prefer bottom).

/per