Has LP killed my hobby

[bcfcciderhead]

Well maybe killed is a bit strong but it may have caused some problems.

I have moved from the outskirts of a city to the centre of a city (Newport, South Wales)

Have a good dark garden and built an obsy,

First light in obsy last night with my 200p goto on its eq5 pier, must say switching on then parking scope and turning off is great.

The problem I had was I think possible light pollution, using a 25mm ep the ring nebula was not as good as I have had before and could not pick out any of m31, checked goto set up and all was good.

Also when I tried to increase magnification from 15mm to 8mm everything was very dark and could not focus, on anything.

What was causing this?

I do need to check collimation as this has not been done since the move.

The sky does not seem any worse then before but I'm sure it is.

Any clues?

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[Andy_E]

Hmmm, it takes quite a severe amount of LP to totally wash out M31. Have you checked http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/wordpress/?page_id=127 to see what LP is like in your current area?

[bcfcciderhead]

That's what I thought, maybe just not looking hard enough.

But my main concern was when I up the magnification everything goes very dark and can't focus.

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[bcfcciderhead]

That map is interesting, my area is orange/ red

[ronin]

With even moderate light pollution never seen much in M31, the core just about shows up and some hazing around it if lucky. So from the centre on Newport I would not have expected very much of M31 to be discernable.

15mm to 8mm means 2x all round so 1/4 the light brightness, the world of magnification. It's going to be dimmer and the light pollution means less contrast, so very likely more difficult to focus.

To me everything you describe can be down to light pollution. Some may be collimation but after collimating I would be surprised if things were greatly improved other then perhaps some of the focus issues.

[Cath]

Bender might have something useful to say to an astronomer who decides to move into a more light polluted city centre from whence they came

[Naemeth]

I'm only about 3 miles out from Leeds, and M31 is easy to see - very obvious even in my 9x50 finderscope. Are you sure you were pointing it at M31?

[acey]

I have moved from the outskirts of a city to the centre of a city (Newport, South Wales)

Have a good dark garden and built an obsy,

First light in obsy last night with my 200p goto on its eq5 pier, must say switching on then parking scope and turning off is great.

The problem I had was I think possible light pollution, using a 25mm ep the ring nebula was not as good as I have had before and could not pick out any of m31, checked goto set up and all was good.

Also when I tried to increase magnification from 15mm to 8mm everything was very dark and could not focus, on anything.

What was causing this?

I do need to check collimation as this has not been done since the move.

The sky does not seem any worse then before but I'm sure it is.

Any clues?

Sounds like you built the obs before trying to observe from the site - a risky way round. Surely better to test first if it's worth building an obs or if you'd be better taking the scope to a dark site. No city-centre site is going to be good for deep-sky. Some stuff will be visible but all of it will be pretty poor. You say the sky doesn't seem worse - have you assessed limiting magnitude? The sky will look pretty black at any light polluted site, but that's only because your eye is adapting to the level of the surrounding lighting.

If you're trying to observe a large object with low surface brightness relative to the background sky, then magnification will make it disappear completely - that's what happened with M31. It's also possible that transparency wasn't particularly good. At a dark site this is easy to judge - the Milky Way looks hazy or blurred. At a light polluted site, with far fewer naked-eye objects in the sky, the difference may be less obvious, though it still makes a difference in the telescope. Collimation is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to deep sky.

Your views of moon, planets etc won't be affected by the light pollution so maybe concentrate on those.

[brantuk]

You're either not pointing at it or you're using too much magnification imho. Check if you can see M31 in a pair of standard 10x50 bins. If you can see it then a telescope will have no problem whatsoever with a low power eyepiece.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

even in a light polluted area you can still enjoy the skies.Obviously you will have to forget about nebulae,but you can still observe planets,double stars,clusters as they are not affected by LP, and winter skies are much darker then the summer ones, looking at your signature you have all the gear necessary for planetary observations

Clear skies.

[bcfcciderhead]

Thanks for all the replays guys.

Before I built the obsy I had a look for a few nights before the build and could see most constellations that I can see before I moved, the obsy cost next to nothing as most of it I sourced from work, so no real loss there.

Of course I could be looking in the wrong part for m31, but the goto got me to other objects pretty much centre of EP, so will have to try again.

I think I will go back to my old house take a photo of the sky and compare the same part of sky where I am now, count the visible stars.

Won't give up yet

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[ronl]

Never give up, as the saying goes "where there's a will there's a way"

I live on the Wirral and have Liverpool one way and Chester the other

but I still get good views of most DSO's but not the low ones, best to

observe M31 later on when it's high up, I am getting great views of it

at the moment, so give it another go around midnight, good luck and

I hope you get the results you are looking for.

[NGC 1502]

Not to be able to see M31 at all through an 8" scope would mean absolutely disastrous LP.   Was the scope actually pointing at M31 ? should see the bright core at the very least.

My own backyard is very light polluted, I'm only half mile north of Southend town centre, M31 is an easy catch in 10x50 bins, M31 & 32 easy in my 70mm refractor, and with my 10" Dob, M31,M32 & M110 in the same low power field.

When changing eyepieces, are you refocusing ?  Even if they are supposed to be parfocal, most need at least a tweak, and if you are off focus, fuzzy patches can disappear.  I don't try to focus on the faint stuff, but offset to a reasonably bright star, refocus, then pan back to my target.

Hope you have more success, to have an obsy is a dream of mine...........

Cheers, Ed.

[bcfcciderhead]

Thanks again guys.

No I won't give up, the obsy is great switch on, enter time and date and away to go.

I'm just putting it down to looking in the wrong place for m31, still plenty to see up there and as winter is closing in should have some good nights.

Will re do my alignment and double check things next night out and give myself more time.

Roll on Orion, if I can't see that then I have a lot of kit for sale lol

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[LukeSkywatcher]

As long as the sky is above us and there are things to see, there are ways of seeing them. Honestly i would not get hung up or upset/disheartened that you have not seen M31. Its overrated in my mind as an object when observing it. In images it naturally looks fantastic................most things do.

I'm really looking forward to Orion myself once again and the Rosette Nebula. They are my first ports of call at this time of year.

[bcfcciderhead]

Not all that bothered about m31, I have viewed

it and like you said not the best but still nice to see.

My worry was the fact my EP made the sky look dark with no focus

Thanks for words of encouragement tho

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[umadog]

The lack of focus is weird. Perhaps you're out of collimation? That's something that would become noticeable at higher powers.

On a more general note, galaxy observing from a red/orange zone is an exercise in frustration. That's just how it is. You're better off going for small bright things like planetaries or the larger, filterable, emission nebulae. Don't forget planets. Narrow-band imaging is another option.

[Liquid360]

Every chance I get I promote this app. If more people would use it and then add their data/observing spots we'd all have a MUCH easier time of things!!

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dark-sky-finder/id546529400?mt=8

- Nate

Birmingham, AL

[faulksy]

could it of been bad seeing that particular night. if there was a lot of moisture in the air you would of got light scatter and give you the impression of a lot of lp

[laser_jock99]

Hmmm, it takes quite a severe amount of LP to totally wash out M31. Have you checked http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/wordpress/?page_id=127 to see what LP is like in your current area

My Midlands observing site is in the orange/red zone but I can pick out the Milky Way overhead and M31 naked eye from time to time. IMO it's as much about transparency as LP.

[toxic]

could it of been bad seeing that particular night. if there was a lot of moisture in the air you would of got light scatter and give you the impression of a lot of lp

i agree with faulksy , that with some or even a little mist in the air and lp then you do'nt get to see very much all. i know what its like i have a street light rite next to my little obsy and its 1 of the new white lights and lots of the orange ones around  but at-least there is hope as they have started to put in the new led lights and they are only shining down.there have been turned on  a few streets away and the sky definitely looks darker and clearer they are a lot better .now just get rid of the clouds.

[bcfcciderhead]

Thanks for all the positive replays guys, been away all weekend so not had time to check collimation ( been to the royal observatory in Greenwich ) but will take in account of all you said and could have been "seeing" as I have seen nights here before look so much better,

Will try and find time after work and collimate so will let you know how it was

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[bcfcciderhead]

There you go my house is close to m4 but due to house location and tress I get very little light from m4

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[Moonshane]

some good points above. I agree that moisture in the air increases any light pollution dramatically, even from relatively dark skies. this might seem like a slight contradiction in terms but at the rather damp Peak star party recently, the light pollution from a local quarry looked like a bright sunrise over the hill but in clear conditions it's hardly visible at all.

also, yes pick your targets. sometimes even though I live in a relatively poor area for LP I can see quite faint objects like M74 but other times when my neighbour's insecurity light is playing up for example, I have to switch to doubles and clusters.

if you cannot get focus it must have been either that you forgot to put an adapter in or something minor like that as collimation would not prevent focus unless the secondary was turned and in which case you'd see nothing not out of focus images. if it's slightly turned you might have less effective aperture though of course. were you clipping the top of the obs perhaps?

hope you get it sorted.

[David55]

This might not help immediately but... Our local council (Chelmsford in Essex) has just decided to switch off street lights at midnight to save money. Perhaps this will spread to other areas soon. It isn't that visibility suddenly improves, just that around midnight, you suddenly think that 'the seeing really is quite good tonight' and then remember that the lights have gone off and go into the front garden to check.