For Sale : Used twice !! Why??

[John]

A lot of people on here say, go & get a Dob.

Lot of bang, for your bucks,until it turns up.

Then you go & try & use it. The learning

curve is a bit steeper than a lot of people think.

To see DSOs, you need dark skies,which means

usually,loading the scope & all the bits & pieces

in the car. You soon get fed up with this & end

up selling the scope.We then end up getting a

cheap scope.

Steve

I think the learning curve generally with astronomy can be steeper than people expect. It's pretty easy to point a scope at the Moon and get a "wow !" but after that targets need to be researched and sought out. I know folks who like "quick wins" with their hobbies and quickly loose interest if they don't get them. I've never felt that astronomy is a hobby for people who are that way inclined - you generally have to work at getting the "rewards" whether visual or imaging

[Carbon Brush]

A fascinating insight. And I agree with virtually everything that has been posted.

Reading all of the posts, I have come to realise why I have stuck with astronomy.

I don't just like looking at the sky.

I enjoyed designing and building the 'shed'.

Trying different kit combinations to compare views.

Trying to sort out automation issues and 'go elsewhere' goto problems.

Sorting mechanical issues on mounts and sometimes improving things.

Helping and exchanging information with others.

So some of the 'used twice' sales may be about people who just want an 'out of the box and look' piece of kit. No interest in DIY upgrades or modifications. No interest in meeting like minded people. If scope 1 has limitations, the spec for scope 2 says things will be better.

[cotterless45]

A lot of folks get drawn in by Hubble pics and think that's what's up there visually. Often I have a difficult time explaining the excitement of fuzziness and stars. That's until you come to Saturn and Jupiter.

I don't think many folk think of standing around in the cold depths of winter either.

Once you do get gripped then the passion and excitement will always be with you, under

clear skies,

Nick.

[CSM]

A lot of people on here say, go & get a Dob.

Lot of bang, for your bucks,until it turns up.

Then you go & try & use it. The learning

curve is a bit steeper than a lot of people think.

To see DSOs, you need dark skies,which means

usually,loading the scope & all the bits & pieces

in the car. You soon get fed up with this & end

up selling the scope.We then end up getting a

cheap scope.

True. If there is one criticism of some of the advice that is given on this Forum is that too often it relates to what is now working for them. It can take a long time to work out what is best for you personally and if the first scope doesn't work out and unless you are really keen on astronomy, that can be the end of it.

[AlexB67]

I think the learning curve generally with astronomy can be steeper than people expect. It's pretty easy to point a scope at the Moon and get a "wow !" but after that targets need to be researched and sought out. I know folks who like "quick wins" with their hobbies and quickly loose interest if they don't get them. I've never felt that astronomy is a hobby for people who are that way inclined - you generally have to work at getting the "rewards" whether visual or imaging

I agree 100%. I do wonder sometimes when I see scopes with GoTo, if equipment like that does more damage than good for newcomers. I know plenty that like to have quick rewards, have a lot of money to spend, so they'd probably go out and buy something like that, thinking that a quick point and click approach to get a tour of the heavens is the way to go, without ever getting involved.

Not saying Goto is a bad invention, but sometimes it does make me cringe when first time buyers insist on having such a feature on their first scope as a must even when on a limited budget. Each to their own in the end of the day, I have to respect that, that being said I always think if they have that kind of mind set, it is likely that they are not going to enjoy the hobby in the long run.

[rowan46]

I agree 100%. I do wonder sometimes when I see scopes with GoTo, if equipment like that does more damage than good for newcomers. I know plenty that like to have quick rewards, have a lot of money to spend, so they'd probably go out and buy something like that, thinking that a quick point and click approach to get a tour of the heavens is the way to go, without ever getting involved.

Not saying Goto is a bad invention, but sometimes it does make me cringe when first time buyers insist on having such a feature on their first scope as a must even when on a limited budget. Each to their own in the end of the day, I have to respect that, that being said I always think if they have that kind of mind set, it is likely that they are not going to enjoy the hobby in the long run.

My first proper scope was a goto and to be honest I saw more with it than I do now with my smaller non goto. Goto's are good their only issue is their cost as a percentage of a smaller scope and for a small minority the issue of portability. For many urban astronomers goto can be pretty much a necessity when light pollution washes out all the guide stars. if goto is good enough for observatory's it's good enough for me. In answer to the op it really is as simple as some people just don't like astronomy as much as they think they will when they first buy their equipment. Work gets in the way, life gets in the way its not just astronomy just about every interest and hobby has people who don't stay the course. Recently I got rid of my cornflake collection after many years as it just doesn't do it for me anymore some people don't need as long to make their minds up about what they will spend their time on garages, boot sales, auctions, charity shops are full of stuff from peoples no longer cherished hobby. it's not necessarily the fault of goto, unfufilled expectations, laziness or anything sometimes people just don't get it and sometimes there are just too many other things to do. Their loss enthusiasts gain

[AlexB67]

My first proper scope was a goto and to be honest I saw more with it than I do now with my smaller non goto. Goto's are good their only issue is their cost as a percentage of a smaller scope and for a small minority the issue of portability. For many urban astronomers goto can be pretty much a necessity when light pollution washes out all the guide stars. if goto is good enough for observatory's it's good enough for me. In answer to the op it really is as simple as some people just don't like astronomy as much as they think they will when they first buy their equipment. Work gets in the way, life gets in the way its not just astronomy just about every interest and hobby has people who don't stay the course. Recently I got rid of my cornflake collection after many years as it just doesn't do it for me anymore some people don't need as long to make their minds up about what they will spend their time on garages, boot sales, auctions, charity shops are full of stuff from peoples no longer cherished hobby. it's not necessarily the fault of goto, unfufilled expectations, laziness or anything sometimes people just don't get it and sometimes there are just too many other things to do. Their loss enthusiasts gain

Fair points Perhaps I feel a bit strong about it, your post puts it in perspective somewhat better. I do live at the edge of city so I can get by without such tools, but admittedly it gets tricky when I have been trying to observe a few objects low in the sky lately. I did live in the centre of Bristol at one point as well, My red dot finder would have largely been useless as well I expect.

[nicks90]

For many urban astronomers goto can be pretty much a necessity when light pollution washes out all the guide stars.

i would have thought the opposite to be true - as a beginner myself I think I would be extremely disapointed if i had a goto and thought "lets look at the "crescent nebula" - whirrrr whizz bang and then looked in the ep to find nothing but an orange blanket of zippo!

If you cant make out the guide stars to an object, the chances of the object being visible under those light pollution conditions is pretty slim! I know what my light pollution is like and I use the guide stars as a gauge to what I can realisitically see in my back yard. If i want to see a object and cant find the stars to hop to it, I shelve it for when I'm out at a dark(er) site.

push to, dual axis motors, or just plain star manual hopping - IMHO - gives more knowledge of the skies and allows you to set exectations and has (for me) given me a real reward in the hobby.

As a corrolation - I see many people buying landrovers and spending a tonne of cash on trick suspension, big tyres etc - and then promptly get stuck whilst I pootle past in my old fairly standard beaten up beast. You learn the skills gradually and become 'better' at it over time. Although people with all the gear and no idea, do mean there is a constant supply of goodies for others at bargain prices!

[cgarry]

Not saying Goto is a bad invention, but sometimes it does make me cringe when first time buyers insist on having such a feature on their first scope as a must even when on a limited budget. Each to their own in the end of the day, I have to respect that, that being said I always think if they have that kind of mind set, it is likely that they are not going to enjoy the hobby in the long run.

Actually it makes me cringe when somebody asks for advice saying that they want a setup with Goto and the dob mob repeatedly ignore this fact and keep telling them to get a dob because you get more 'bang for buck'.

[Demonperformer]

I wonder how many on the forum would have recommended that I swap a 10" dob for an etx80. But it was probably one of the best astro-purchases I have made (albeit that I have now moved on from it) as it actually got me out under the stars using it.

[AlexB67]

Actually it makes me cringe when somebody asks for advice saying that they want a setup with Goto and the dob mob repeatedly ignore this fact and keep telling them to get a dob because you get more 'bang for buck'.

touche ,but you know what ? bigger weapons of mass destruction always win, Go Dob Mob

but on a more serious note you have point. I suppose the moral of the story, what may seem the right thing for one may not be for another. All we can/should do is give considered and weighted advice best we can, because that is the best advice, it should not be about forcing opinions to the bitter end. To be fair that is what I like about the lounge, it is one of the few forums where that happens, it is pretty much standard, all in good spirits, civilised discussion, and the occasional bit of banter

[Scott]

I've seen so many scopes for sale 'used twice'.

Now I appreciate that 'twice' might be a euphemism for 'not much' but why is this so often the case?

Do people get bored quickly? Did they buy the wrong scope?

I'm not talking about the £50 ebay scopes (of which there are plenty) but of decent scopes and decent makes.

Why do you reckon it is?

sometimes people lie. whilst I love astronomy and in general astronomers, the plain truth is some people will tell you they can walk on water if it means unloading an unwanted item. ads like...this is possibly the best beginners scope available, used only twice in two years. a few scratches on ota and tripod has lost one of its feet and mount blah blah blah, apart from this it's perfect so I'm knocking £7.50 off the new price. In my opinion, if it's not 1/3 off for second hand, don't buy second hand....unless you know the circumstances and the seller

[John]

... I suppose the moral of the story, what may seem the right thing for one may not be for another. All we can/should do is give considered and weighted advice best we can, because that is the best advice, it should not be about forcing opinions to the bitter end. To be fair that is what I like about the lounge, it is one of the few forums where that happens, it is pretty much standard, all in good spirits, civilised discussion, and the occasional bit of banter

Well said

[cgarry]

touche ,but you know what ? bigger weapons of mass destruction always win, Go Dob Mob

but on a more serious note you have point. I suppose the moral of the story, what may seem the right thing for one may not be for another. All we can/should do is give considered and weighted advice best we can, because that is the best advice, it should not be about forcing opinions to the bitter end. To be fair that is what I like about the lounge, it is one of the few forums where that happens, it is pretty much standard, all in good spirits, civilised discussion, and the occasional bit of banter

I agree that we do have to be careful not to assume that our own choices are correct for others. Personally I have absolutely no interest in finding objects myself, find the idea of nudging to keep objects in the EP tiresome and love gadgets like goto; yet if somebody asked my advice about getting their first scope I would still suggest they consider a dob.

The banter is one of the things I most like about the forum!

Chris

[John]

I agree that we do have to be careful not to assume that our own choices are correct for others. Personally I have absolutely no interest in finding objects myself, find the idea of nudging to keep objects in the EP tiresome and love gadgets like goto; yet if somebody asked my advice about getting their first scope I would still suggest they consider a dob.

The banter is one of the things I most like about the forum!

Chris

Thats why it's worth asking newcomers to the hobby a few questions about their interests before jumping in with a suggestion. It must seem odd to newbies when we ask these questions but the more we find out about their interests, budget, viewing location, etc, etc the better the suggestions can be

[CedricTheBrave]

The guy I bought my (used only twice) scope from just came across as not really having a clue ! He appeared technically challenged about most aspects of setup.

I think that he just gave up trying to see anything and as the collimating was miles out I am not surprised.

i guess some people just do not know how and are not willing to invest the time to learn.

[CedricTheBrave]

50 posts whoop whoop

[Zakalwe]

that being said I always think if they have that kind of mind set, it is likely that they are not going to enjoy the hobby in the long run.

You will agree that that is nothing more than personal opinion?

For me, and for most that I know that are involved in the hobby, their idea of hell is fumbling about in the dark, messing around trying to find an object and then to only see a faint fuzzy grey blob. Especially when they know that a camera will provide detail a million times more spectacular than any "wetware" eye.

And as for a Dob,manually searching for things and nudging to keep an object in the FoV? How very 19th Century

[John]

....For me, and for most that I know that are involved in the hobby, their idea of hell is fumbling about in the dark, messing around trying to find an object and then to only see a faint fuzzy grey blob. Especially when they know that a camera will provide detail a million times more spectacular than any "wetware" eye.

And as for a Dob,manually searching for things and nudging to keep an object in the FoV? How very 19th Century

You will agree that that is nothing more than personal opinion though ?

There are lots of different equipment options around and most of it good these days I reckon

[rowan46]

You will agree that that is nothing more than personal opinion?

For me, and for most that I know that are involved in the hobby, their idea of hell is fumbling about in the dark, messing around trying to find an object and then to only see a faint fuzzy grey blob. Especially when they know that a camera will provide detail a million times more spectacular than any "wetware" eye.

And as for a Dob,manually searching for things and nudging to keep an object in the FoV? How very 19th Century

i like goto but there's a lot to be said for fumbling around in the dark, messing around and nudging.

[Zakalwe]

You will agree that that is nothing more than personal opinion though ?

There are lots of different equipment options around and most of it good these days I reckon

Of course. I was merely offering an alternative point of view.

i like goto but there's a lot to be said for fumbling around in the dark, messing around and nudging.

[AlexB67]

You will agree that that is nothing more than personal opinion?

For me, and for most that I know that are involved in the hobby, their idea of hell is fumbling about in the dark, messing around trying to find an object and then to only see a faint fuzzy grey blob. Especially when they know that a camera will provide detail a million times more spectacular than any "wetware" eye.

And as for a Dob,manually searching for things and nudging to keep an object in the FoV? How very 19th Century

Yes I like fumbling in the dark, yes I like dropping my eyepiece caps and having to search for them, yes I like nudging and doing astronomy the 19th century way, for me it is largely as much a spiritual experience being out there. finding stuff, even if it is just a fuzzy at the end of it, and no, I have no real interest in imaging to get a processed version of same, I can find those on the internet. Oh I almost forgot, just another opinion

But seriously, yes you are right of course, it is another opinion, rather than a subjective post.

[planet15]

I suppose it all depends on what aspect one seeks meanings and fun in this hobby. But I now feel that stargazing can be a demanding activity.

[shirva]

Agree with all of the above...one that gets me is the late nights. ...how do you manage to stay up to the half two three in morning imagining and go to work next day...love the hobby but no that much lol need my beauty sleep or is it retired astromers that stay up most of the night...like a half shut knife going to work at half seven most days...Davy

[CSM]

The moral of all these posts is surely that it all depends on what the person wants, expects, is physically able to manage, can afford and where he lives. So when a noobie asks for advice maybe we should ask these questions first rather than just telling them what works for us?