Downgraded from 10" scope to a pair of bins! First Light Report!

[greglloyd]

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I lasted posted on the site, however I thought I would post this first light report to share with you all my enthusiasm for some new bins I bought!

Long story short, I've been observing the sky on and off for the past 20 years. Started out with a 40mm refractor -> 6 inch Dob -> 8 inch Dob, and finally a 10" Dob (aperture fever!). In between each of these scopes I got out of the hobby for a year or more (10 to 15 years between the 6 and 8 inch Dobs!).

Anyway, the Skyliner 250px was sold two weeks ago.. I just don't have the time and inclination to set the scope up anymore very late at night with a busy work life and a 3 year old who keeps me 100% busy during the day!!

After a long and hard think about it (the scope was spending more time inside than out), I decided to sell the scope and buy a pair of bins - nothing too crazy, just a nice pair of 10 x 50's as I want portability to take away on holiday with me, be able to use them for viewing aircraft, and of course viewing the sky from my back garden. I bought a pair of Pentax PCF WP II bins last week. Decided to spend a bit on a decent pair but not go overboard until I see how I get on :-)

So, last Friday was an excellent sky here (Northern Ireland) - very clear and transparent and I couldn't believe how many DSOs I managed to bag with these little binos! I even viewed several in Sagittarius which my bigger scopes had never been trained on (I never really travelled to anywhere with the scopes - skies at my home are quite dark but restricted viewing low to the south).

Here's what I managed to view :-

M13 Hercules Cluster - This was the first object and I was really surprised how bright this looked in the bins. My 10" scope would have previously resolved a lot of this cluster but the view becomes dim at high power. This view was refreshingly bright, the object was still big enough given the small instrument, and the wide field of view great! What a great start I thought!

M92 Globular - The other cluster in Hercules and I was surprised to easily find it and for it to be bright in the bins. Clearly visible as a globular and not a star.

M11 Wild Duck Cluster - Easily seen, but not resolved obviously

M15 Globular - Bright and easily found in the bins, still looked obviously like a globular too.

M27 Dumbell Neb - Easily found and bigger than I thought it would be!

M57 Ring Neb - Easily found in the bins - but only because I knew exactly where it was! It appeared just like a star forming a triangle with the other 2 nearby stars. Still, I was impressed to see it at all!!

M10 Globular - Stumbled over it just by sweeping the bins (also saw M12 near by).

M51 Whirlpool Galaxy - Easily found and appeared as a smaller and dimmer smudge (but with recognisable orientation) than my scopes would have shown a low power (Incidently, I have viewed hints of the spiral structure from my back garden with the 10" scope so skies are pretty good here at times).

M101 Ursa Major - thought I would give this a go and was surprised to find it easily visible with direct vision at the low 10x power. Seems easier to see with the bins than with the scopes!

M81 / 82 - Easily found but obviously smaller and dimmer than the scopes. Orientation of both galaxies was obvious - so again really pleased with the views the bins gave. The 10" scope would have given brighter and bigger views (with some detail in M82) - but I have been there and done that. This is all about just grabbing some bins and rediscovering my initial excitement like I had when I looked to the skies many years ago for the first time!

Double Cluster - Fantastic in the bins and so well framed!!

M31 - was rising in the NE so not viewed at it's best but obviously very easy object which filled the field of view.

I then decided to cast my eyes to the south - something I couldn't really do with the Dob as there are houses in the way which block my view of the southern horizon. The bins were perfect and I saw the following objects for the first time ever!

Eagle Neb - The glow of the nebula was easily seen with bright cluster of stars at the centre.

Omega Neb - Again, the glow was easily seen. All stars in this area really glittered. The view was fantastic with multiple nebulas and stars almost in the same field of view - wow!

Sagittarius Star Cloud - Wow - what a pretty sight this was! At this stage I'm just loving using these bins!

M8 Lagoon Nebula - Bright glow and jewel box like glistening stars - awesome.

I was beginning to see why everyone raves about the Sagittarius region - and all this with just a pair of 10 x 50's - unbelievable.

The night was finished off with a lovely view of the ISS going overhead and a few Perseids flying about. The observing session lasted about 75 mins in total and I felt great see all these objects with such a good view from just a pair of decent binos. Best thing is that the handiness of it all means (no scope cool down, etc) means it is work and family friendly - and I'm now much more driven to get back out for more quick observing sessions as the skies darken for Autumn :-)

I must say that I'm delighted with the Pentax's. The field of view is very sharp right out to almost the edge of the field and the view was very bright. Stars blazed in the eyepieces and Nebulae glowed easily with direct vision. The sky conditions were very good that night, so it will be interesting to see what other nights bring. But so far, I'm delighted with them!

I think observing experience plays a huge role here. Knowing exactly what to look for and where helps enormously, and it's surprising just how many of those DSOs you have viewed in larger scopes can be seen in bins, albeit at a lower magnification and a little dimmer in some cases. It felt the opposite to buying a bigger scope and being a little disappointed that the views were not as good as you thought they were going to be :-D

[andrew63]

Great report - shows just what can be done with nice binoculars and a good sky. I got a pair of 10x50 for Christmas and also find them very liberating. I have a poor summer horizon to with lots of trees, so no good in the scope. Getting a good vantage point and turning them on the Sagittarius region a couple of weeks ago was a sight to behold - all those little gems...

Here's to 10x50s and autumn skies!

andrew

[Chris]

Very nice report, I too recently discovered the joy of bins after many years of scopes and I agree they are really something else! I have already aquired three pairs off Ebay: vintage 10x50, Opticron 8x40 Aspherics, and the Helios Stellar 20x80 pictured in my avatar. I can't believe how good they all are, the Aspherics give a great 8 degree FOV with star fields that shine like jewels great for surfing the Milky Way, and my 20x80's are great messier hunters, I can't believe how good M13 and M31 looked through them! And its so nice to use 2 eyes, so comfy and natural, I think for the visual side of things its going to be binoscopes all the way in future, or at the very least binoviewers:)

[crashtestdummy]

you have seen a similar number of messiers in your bins as i have in my 12" scope!!well done and great report

[BinocularSky]

Great report! There's only one thing I disagree with: the first word of your subject line. The correct word, which you sadly failed to find, is "Upgraded".

[Mark at Beaufort]

Greg a very enjoyable report. Although I have a number of scopes I quite often use my 15x70 binos to view the same objects that you stated. I must admit I have never tried M101 with the binos although I know I can see it with the 10" Dob and the 26mm Nagler. If it clears tonight I might give it a go.

Mark

[greglloyd]

Great report! There's only one thing I disagree with: the first word of your subject line. The correct word, which you sadly failed to find, is "Upgraded".

LOL! Very true!

[greglloyd]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys! Good to see we all agree regarding the great views and the surprising potential a simple pair of good quality bins can bring.

I think a key factor here is that we are all experienced observers and know exactly what to look for and where. The wide field of view makes locating objects a relative doddle and in most cases the objects are simply smaller and dimmer versions of what you would see in a scope.

Also, I think with the scope there is the tendency to look for ever more challenging objects which appear in some cases as just a smudge of light - even in 10" scopes and above - so you spend a lot of time not actually looking at showcase ojbjects whereas with the bins you at least start out mostly going for the larger, brighter objects knowing the limitations of the instrument. You are therefore generally not disappointed by what you find!

I ordered an Opticron L mount which should arrive tomorrow, so looking forward to tripod mounting the bins for some sharper views of the DSOs during the next observing session!

[crashtestdummy]

i actually prefer the views through my 15x70's than i do for my scope,they are just darker and better quality.is this down to the wider field of view?

[greglloyd]

Greg a very enjoyable report. Although I have a number of scopes I quite often use my 15x70 binos to view the same objects that you stated. I must admit I have never tried M101 with the binos although I know I can see it with the 10" Dob and the 26mm Nagler. If it clears tonight I might give it a go.

Mark

Thanks Mark. Yes, I could usually pick out M101 in my Skyliner 250 with a 32mm SW Panaview eyepiece giving 37.5x but never managed to see the hydrogen regions that others have mentioned seeing. It's worth having a go for it in the binos I reckon - the views from the scope and bins from my location are very similar actually - just smaller and not just as prominent in the bins.

[andrew63]

i actually prefer the views through my 15x70's than i do for my scope,they are just darker and better quality.is this down to the wider field of view?

I'm wondering if it has something to do with looking through a lens rather than a mirror. I have a refractor - lens based again of course - but would be interested to get some views on those with reflectors in relation to the 'quality of view' in comparison to a lens.

andrew

[greglloyd]

re: Darker and better quality: I was thinking it had something to do with the fact that the big scopes pull in lots of light - therefore the sky brightness through the eyepiece is increased too. Also, I agree that possibly because it's a lens and the fact it is a closed optical system in the binos helps with the view (no tube currents, no cool down required, sharp refracted image through the lens, etc).

[Chris]

Also less folding of the light path with a frac hence less scattered light thus darker background, well this is what I've heard:)

[crashtestdummy]

both ideas(lense rather than mirror,and light scattering) make sense actually.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Last night was very clear and transparent so out came the 15x70 binos and the recliner chair.

The Milky Way was so clear so I knew it was going to be a good night for observing. First objects was M101 and it was very easy to find by star hopping from Mizar and there it was 'a hazy glow' - so thanks Greg for your initial report.

I then spent a wonderful time viewing the Messier objects especially in Sagittarius.

Mark

[greglloyd]

Sounds good Mark.

Of course, now that my Opticron mount has arrived it has been cloudy here the past few evenings and I've been unable to try it out! Hoping for some clearer slots this evening but it's generally been cloudier than forecast for the pasts four nights so not holding out too much hope.

[Marki]

Great report!

I've had pretty much no time to take advantage of the few observing opportunties I;ve had recently (very busy with work and a move to a new house). Saturday I night I set a scope out to cool down and 30 mins later it completely clouded over. But last night, after spending all day unpacking boxes, I was able to nip outside for 30mins before bedtime and take some advantage of some of the best seeing I've had since winter. In some ways its a shame I had to get up early and couldn't get a scope out, but the great thing about having the bins is that the opportunity didn't go to waste.

Your report really sums it up for me - as I get more expereinced I am seeing messiers and other things I would not have believed possible 6 months ago. I spent a lovely 30 mins in and around Cassipeia, Andromeda and Perseus, and have significantly added to my "M" collection. I probably ticked off more in one night last night than for the last four months using scopes put together...actually since the last time I went out for any length of time with my bins now I think of it (some sort of lesson here.... ).

[greglloyd]

Skies were clearer last night so I managed to get the Pentax PCF's out again with the new opticron mount I had bought. Unfortunately as the sun went down the sky went from perfectly clear (no contrails from high altitude aircraft and clear blue sky) to quite a lot of high based cirrus once it got dark - and eventually almost totally cloudy at mid to upper levels.

I did manage to get a few views of some DSOs before it became too poor and the steady view provided by the new mount gave me a great view of the Double Cluster (as well as the other open clusters nearby in Cassiopeia. Got a nice view of the Sagitta region with the dumbell sitting prominently in view as well as a great view of the 'coathanger' as skies were still particularly clear in this part of the sky when I looked. Also had success with M13, M15, M2 globulars and viewed a couple of double stars last night to test the optics now that they were mounted.

Sagittarius was disappointing last night as the high cloud formed to the south early in the observing session and really obscurred any DSOs in that area. Could really only see the star clusters from the Omega and Eagle nebulas as well as M18 - no actual nebula seen as such in either the Eagle or Omega. Other objects in that part of the sky were pretty much unobservable.

So, all in all it was good to test the new bins on a mount to get that extra sharpness but the sky ended up being a dissapointment last night given how well it had looked just before and after the sun had set!

[spaceboy]

A great report Greg.

I had a 10" dob and sold it after 12 months because I found I was using a 60mm refractor far more often than I ever did the dob. While there is no doubting the views through the 10" dob were amazing I often left the dob sat gathering dust in the corner as it all seemed too much hassle setting it up and waiting for it to cool when I could grab the 60mm frak and be out observing between clouds in a matter of seconds. Realizing this I got a 6" newt in the hope to add aperture to grabbing and going but find I'm still using the 60mm frak. While there's no mind blowing detail I can make out most the messier objects and it works perfectly fine on the moon & sun. What I enjoy the most is the fact I'm getting out every chance I get and even when the skies are less than ideal.

The irony though is that I still have several other scopes 4" to 8" which have cost me a pretty penny, yet I use a 60mm frak that basically came free with a mount that I'd wanted for another scope. The 60mm frak cost me nothing yet gets used more than all my other scope put together.

As they say the best scope is one your going to use.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Very nice report. I use both scope and bins, but my kids are a bit older, so I can get them to join in.

[greglloyd]

Thought I'd post another report on the Pentax PCF WP ii 10x50's...

Just back in from another observing session in the garden with these bins. Tonight's sky is crystal clear with very vivid Milky Way visible and I must say that tonight the bins delivered the best views since I got them!

First an foremost, the highlight of the night for me - the North American Nebula!! Never seen it before (and certainly not with any scope) but tonight Cygnus is really shining overhead and without referencing any charts (even though I knew where it should be I deliberately stayed away from any charts so that I couldn't just guess it's orientation) I could clearly see it through the bins.

With the naked eye it was a 50/50 thing as to whether I could see it. The nebula has relatively bright stars in the foreground which mean themselves shine like a cloud to my naked eye. However with the bins there was absolutely not a shadow of a doubt I was looking at it. Mexico part seemed the brightest, but could see the whole fan shape with the stars then superimposed on top. It's large! It took up easily a 60% or more of the field of view in the binos. Really chuffed to bag this one!

To give you an idea of the sky quality tonight, I also easily bagged M51 and M101 galaxies in Ursa Major even though they were only at 25 - 30 degrees altitude in the North West sky.

M31 showed up nicely with M110 and M32 seen with averted and sometimes direct vision. M33 in Triangulum was clearly seen as a large smudge with adverted / direct vision.

M57 (Ring Nebula) was very bright tonight in the bins - but obviously just stellar looking.

M27 (Dumbell Nebula) stood out very bright tonight - the best view yet with the bins and great to see it in the wide field context.

M13 (Hercules Globular) was a very bright fuzzy ball - and again the best view yet.

Even had a nice clear view off to the south this evening although Sagittarius was setting by the time I went outside. Still managed some nice views of the Wild Duck Cluster, and the area around the Eagle and Omega nebulas, as well as bagging M22 right down at the horizon just before it set.

The highlights tonight though have most certainly been the Northern American Neb and the galaxies. Superb views and it just goes to show that sky conditions (darkness and transparency) are the ultimate ticket to great DSO views rather than just large equipment!!

Finally wrapped up this evening with deciding to hunt to Uranus and Neptune for the first time. Located both by referencing Stellarium, Was surprised just how inconspicuous these planets both look amongst the star fields! Never bothered hunting them down with the Dob, but the binos just beg you to have a go!

As you can see I'm loving these Pentax's!!

[greglloyd]

Just checked the Ursa Minor limiting magnitude chart as I noted the stars in that constellation for this purpose before coming back in to the house. Can confirm that it is at least 6.5 tonight (near the zenith).

[SteveNickolls]

What a great report-thanks greglloyd. I share your enthusiasm for binoculars but haven't sold my 'scope as I really also enjoy the views from my SCT. It was when the SCT was recently 'poorly' (the on-off power switch had stopped working) that I started using my binoculars and was bowled over at the wide angle views, the immersive 3-D effect and how much I saw each evening compared to the half degree views (or less) through the SCT. I also came to ralise that I had spent a lot of money on astrophotography items that had produced far less return than my 10x50's as we don't get enough clear nights in the UK to get conversant with hardware and software and I realise astronomy for me is viewing the sky with my own eyes and becoming more conversant with what I learn. The binoculars can be taken outside on their tripod and I can be up and viewing in a minute or so!

Thanks again,

Steve

[8472]

Nice report.

Good to hear you have seen M57 through your binos. For the life of me, i certainly can't!

I'm not giving up, though!

[greglloyd]

Sorry for the late reply. Regarding M57... I can only say I've seen it for sure because I know exactly where it is located (due to viewing it many times with a scope). In the 10x50's it simply looks stellar in appearance (with it and two other small stars nearby forming a small triangle midway between Beta and Gamma Lyrae) - albeit I find it to be just ever so slightly fuzzier than the neighbouring stars giving away it's true nature (Then again, maybe I think like that just because I know what it really is!).

The Ring Neb is a nice object in a larger scope. Was always one of my targets with the 10" during the summer