Pass it on scheme

[deepsky]

I guess I am just a bit wary of direct marketing on public forums and the ethics of that

Its funny you should say that Deepsky.. BECAUSE........

If memory serves me correctly FLO's marketing and prolific involvement within SGL got you

a £50 discount last week.

Well that worked out good for them and me at the same time then, so no need for an apology really!

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Not meant to be cynical, just a reasoned observation! Astronomy is certainly in decline as an interest amongst youngsters, like so many other sciences, and any way to encourage an interest is to be welcomed. I guess I am just a bit wary of direct marketing on public forums and the ethics of that, FLO are certainly very prolific on this forum you have to admit!

But it did come over as deeply cynical, from here at least, just so you know.

Astronomy is not in decline in my household, just because my boy likes saying "Pollux". He can get his butt motivated to look at stuff that I like to look at and drags our neighbours (plus their kids) out to watch the ISS passing. He was the first out when the recent lunar eclipse happened, and was the most enthusiastic when it actually happened. So locally you are wrong in stating that astronomy is in decline.

Steve is in no better position to sell me stuff than any other retailer of astro stuff, but he is a participant here and I know that if I criticise him here he will see it and respond (and feel hurt personally) because he joins in with us. I don't see that as a bad thing, in fact its quite the reverse, Steve has been here where I am now and struggled with the retailers. This gives him a valuable insight into what WE want from retailers and he is able to modify the standard business model to suit. Give me a pile of MBA business managers in one corner and somebody who is one of the gang and I'll bet on the MBAs losing their shirts.

Steve has offered to basically give stuff away, in order to further the hobby, end of! He hasn't suggested that anybody who borrows the stuff signs a form saying that they will only ever buy stuff from FLO, nor has he suggested that the borrowed stuff has to be rented by the hour.

I think that Steve is spot on with his marketing budget, I know that I will buy from FLO if there is a quid or two difference betweeen retailers, but if its twenty or fifty quid I will put my order elsewhere. What he is doing is keeping his prices competitive and luring people in with a taster. For goodness sake, its not a new idea in the world as a whole, but in astro terms its a great plan. I'm among the "great unwashed" who wanted to get into astronomy less than two years ago, and, but for the great advice on this forum, I'd have bought the wrong thing. Steve has the enviable position of being party to all the discussions on this forum and tailoring his business to suit, why not let him cast some bait around? It is his cash that he is risking after all.

Kaptain Klevtsov

[GazOC]

I for one would much rather see Steve spend his advertising budget on helping beginners get started than magazine adverts

Good point Grant. I always flick through the ads anyway. Its seems to me everyone wins this way..

[FLO]

No need for an apology. Deepsky is a new member and is just being outspoken. Others might share his thoughts so I am glad of the opportunity to explain myself.

So, back on topic, eh

Besides, its late and I'm supposed to be at SGL 3.5 tomorrow

Goodnight!

[deepsky]

Fair enough, if it was taken as a deeply cynical comment then I have to tender an apology because that is distinctly not how I meant it to come across, so apologies Steve and all who might have been likewise offended. As Steve said I am very new on here, although not to amateur astronomy, and just getting used to how the forum works in terms of sponsorship and marketing in particular.

[Jamie]

Hmmm.

You see i now have another problem Deepsky maybe you can help me out with it.

As i am also a member of UKAI and read a lot of what is posted over there i came across this

maybe you can shed some light on the meaning of THIS???

As someone who has recently got back into amateur astronomy after a 25 year lapse one of the first things I did was to check out the main UK forums for some current kit advice, gauge what the current interests were amongst amateurs these days and generally communicate with like minded people.

There seem to be two main very active forums for amateurs who concentrate on imaging/observation, unless I have missed some major ones (I have seen the SPA and S@N forums), which include UKAI and Stargazers Lounge. On UKAI although there are a wide range of sponsors the involvement of those sponsors in direct marketing terms on the forums is minimal. Most regulars on UKAI might recommend Modern Astronomy and Bernie as a prime source for equipmemt, but, to his credit, he very rarely directly intervenes in a thread and advertises his wares.

By comparison I was quite shocked on joining the Stargazers Lounge forum at the high level of marketing that is pushed by First Light Optics. If you didn't know otherwise you might think the forum was an offshoot of their trading website! You may only happen to mention, as a throwaway remark, that a certain bit of kit was envied or looked interesting and - WHAM - in comes a link to some kit on the FLO website. Most of the longstanding forum users also seem to push FLO on a regular basis, indeed the cult of FLO worship amongst users on that forum is quite disturbing. Personally I find this blatant use of a public forum as a marketing outlet to be quite unethical and it puts me off wanting to be part of that community, which is a shame because they seem like a nice helpful bunch of people and certainly know a lot about amateur astronomy.

Anyone else got any views on the role of marketing and sponsorship in astronomy forums ?

I have no words to explain my feelings for people like you. (But if pushed i WILL find a few)

[FLO]

Can't say that FLO's marketing has ever been called 'unethical' before! I would have appreciated some communication from you before making such antagonistic comments on a public forum. I will cancel your order Monday and refund your card in full. I am sure you understand.

[GazOC]

http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?topic=16162.msg167366#new

Very unethical.....

[prasadka]

Phew..it's always got to be me ..I would not have bought my etx 90PE had this come sooner :? .. well.. Steve..great thought much appreciated..I

wish some one 'd told me this when I wanted to start out..

Better late than never...

aperture is indeed king..

Cheers,

Prasad

[GazOC]

aperture is indeed king..

Cheers,

Prasad

"Aperture isn't everything, but it sure beats whatevers in second place"

[FLO]

Phew..it's always got to be me ..I would not have bought my etx 90PE had this come sooner :? .. well.. Steve..great thought much appreciated..

You are in good company Prasad, most of us after hindsight would have started with a different scope. How long have you had your ETX90? If its still new and hardly used your dealer might exchange it?

[prasadka]

mates..there isn't a night that passes by when I don't think "why I did not join this forum before I bought my meade". Steve's comments "we've all been teher and done that mistake" comforted me a great deal plus,I've spoken to him a few times till now -not once has he tried to market his stuff ahead of "ethics". I am sure most of you know what I mean. I am looking forward to meet you lot tomorrow, rain, sun or snow..

I dont think a chap that wants to market his stuff would post discounts from a different vendor- I am referring to the celestron discount which I would have missed otherwise..

Thanks Steve, we are proud of your professionalism..

Cheers,

Prasad

[prasadka]

You are in good company Prasad, most of us after hindsight would have started with a different scope. How long have you had your ETX90? If its still new and hardly used your dealer might exchange it?

Tried that one Steve, I was told that a telescope store isn't a lending library. Though I wasn't happy about the comment, I surely empathize with the chap that said this- it takes time,money and effort to run a shop. I probably would have said the same if I sold telescopes..

Cheers,

Prasad

[prasadka]

Does any one on this forum know how this word is pronounced..

"sleep"

I am not very convinced..

Prasad

[Cloudwatcher]

Just been catching up on latest post and once again I'm reminded of what makes this Forum a notch above the rest.

It reminds me of the sea. You read an interesting thread that is of a calm and benign nature,go away for a while and when you return squalls and mast high waves abound! Turn in for the night and next time you look all is again calm and bright.

Fascinating.

CW

PS. Does SGL practice the public crushing of offending keyboards?

[blinky]

OK Back on topic again (Though I dont share any critisism of FLO, Steve is the most helpfull professional salesman(dunno if salesman is the correct word but you know what I mean!) I have ever deat with).

Anyway I think the idea of the loan kit is very commendable BUT... Remember this is a forum open to all members of the public and we really dont know who any of them are. The beginer loan kit by its very name would be for new members who dont have a scope already and so likely have not made many posts/been members for long. I am not convinced that we would not get some person on here who took the kit and then never returned it. I know all of the regulars in here would never consider it but a newby who has not got into the spirit of the SGL may not feel the same, especially given the cost of decent kit, which this is starting to look like.

Not saying it's a bad idea but I think you have to consider it. Maybe since Steve is looking after it all, could a deposit not be taken of some kind? I would just hate this to backfire, as one of the best (If not the best) things about this forum is the friendly folks who go out of their way to help out new folks. I would not like to see that spirit lost. thats all.

Well thats my 2 pennies worth

[dogfish]

Blinky,

I think that a fully refundable deposit is very sensible. It doesn't have to be the full price, just enough to deter. Mind you if the 'scope was being delivered to them, Steve would have their address.

Good thinking.

Martin

[blinky]

Thats true about Steve havingthe address, but what would Steve/SGL do? Sent a minibus full of thugs I suppose we need to wait for Steve's input.

[Kai]

He is away at SGL 3.5 at the moment

[blinky]

was going to say luck git, but looking at the weather maybe not! Still I am sure everybody is enjoying it

[Kain]

Brilliant idea Steve - And if it is a marketing promo thing - Who cares, stores do it all the time! If it promotes the hobby to newbies then fantastic, and if Steve gets a profit/sale out of it, good look to him. It's win win in my opinion.

I wish something like this was going on when I started, having the the dob now makes me realise how Rubbish the Tasco was, and tbh, having seeing everything slightly out of focus and poor I almost said 'sod it'

Steve when I get into this imaging lark, I will be coming to you for advice on a cheapish imaging scope - As you can understand, I can't afford alot in my position atm.

Good on ya mate. I'm still relatively new to the hobby, and doesn't have alot of equipment, but when I get to replace bits and bobs, anything I don't need will be donated to the cause.

Kain

[AstroTiger]

OK steve this is a great idea

now i am considering something similar along these lines, but will not divulge what i am up to here ;-)

but it is worth pointing out that some sort of disclaimer needs to be signed, proof of address.

and though ur doing it for free might i suggest a returnable deposit for the use of it?

not delegrating ne one here but honesty is a key ingredient necessary for this to work. sadly not all are.

Just a few things foru all to consider chap

Alf garnet out

[barkis]

Steve, I've though about it, and now I am convinced, you are trying to do poor old Santa Claus out of a job.

It's a great Idea, and you are going to make a lot of folks very happy.

Also well done everyone else who are contributing to this wonderful scheme, I don't have much in the way of hardware to donate, but I have books coming out of my ears. I will compile list and class it as library. Anyone wishing to borrow one may do so. It can then be mailed by the borrower to anyone else who fancies reading it. After a reasonable amount of time of course.

I shall compile the list as soon as possible.

Ron.

[FLO]

Nice one Ron

The pass it forward scheme is in the hands of ADMIN. I think they plan to discuss it when they meet at Kelling.