Atik Titan yes/no?

[SteveT]

Hi, I have an Equinox ED80 and soon will have a C9.25 to partner it on a CGEM mount. I have a modded 350d for imaging, just starting out so it will do me for a while. Question is, I will soon require some guiding, so my shopping list has turned to looking for a guide cam which I could also use as a lunar/planetary webcam.

I was looking at the widely used QHY but may set my sights higher to something like an ATIK Titan which would give me a better camera for lunar/planet work (even some basic DSO).

So I could use the Titan as a very good guide cam whilst imaging with my DSLR, also use it unguided for moon imaging etc. I understand they are more reliable than the QHYs as well. If I could pick a second hand one up for about 60% price of a new one would this be a good move. Also, I'm looking at the OSC version, on the basis that I will turn to mono CCDs when I mature from the DSLR later on and get something better. Is the OSC version as good as the mono one and does it have any disadvantages to the mono one?

Thanks for any advice.

[NickK]

I got to use my mono Titan in anger at SGL7 imaging Jupiter, here's my first unguided Jupiter at 1340mm fl after about 700 frames in registax 5.1:

I started with just a 16IC which I bought second hand and then moved to an OAG with 16IC guiding and a 383L performing imaging. The 16IC shares same sensor IIRC.

The Titan is a good little camera. It's USB2.0 which results in a good frame rate. It's a Sony sensor so the noise is low will happily take long exposures of DSOs too. The obvious down side is the small chip. The 7.4um resolution is good but for me lacks a little detail compared to the 383L's 5.4um - the benefit for 7.4um pixels is it's good sensitivity and well depth. However resolution depends on your scope too.

The last point is that the Titan doesn't have a physical shutter so you can feed it extremely short exposure times (solar, planets) through to longer DSO exposures.

I did take some whitelight solar images with the Titan of sunspots - I'll try to dig a frame out too.

For me the Titan fits nicely. I have a guide cam (16IC), the 383L has a minimum exposure time of 3 seconds and longer (~12sec) download due to the 17MByte image, but the Titan fits in the fast exposure upwards. So I have an option when it comes to DSOs based on the time I have (Sony sensor is faster than the Kodak as it's more sensitive).

[ollypenrice]

As far as guiding goes, I have both mono and colour 16ic Atiks and they perform equally well.

Olly

[SteveT]

Regarding planetary and moon imaging with the Titan, presumably the mono version is good for the moon but would i be disappointed with the lack of colour on planets, i presume i would need to use filters to introduce colour which kind of defeats the object of a 'cheap' setup.

[Earl]

I personally feel Atik have missed the mark with a Guide Camera, the Titan is overkill and overpriced for that roll.

They are saying that Artemis will possibly support Dither Guiding this year (Atik only cams however), so a realistically priced guide cam really does need to be in there stable.

[Steve 1962]

How's this for a suggestion...

Buy a DMK21AU618 mono for £390 and save yourself £100 odd. This will give you a very sensitive high frame rate lunar and planetary camera which is better than a Titan and also works really well as a guide camera (albeit without an ST4 guide port but I'm sure this would work with your CGEM mount using PHD and the mount ASCOM driver). The DMK also allows exposure times >60mins but is uncooled, so in this respect the Titan is better for DSOs.

Then add a filter wheel and filters when funds allow - this will give you colour lunar and planetary capability, which will also come in useful when (if) you make the jump to mono CCD.

Steve

[SteveT]

Interesting views and suggestions, it really is a minefield isn't it, I like the ST4 direct cable to the mount idea which would lean towards the Atik, my priority is I need a guide cam, any secondary uses is an advantage but I'm not ready for mono, filter wheels and all that yet.....one step at a time......which means my main decision is mono/OSC, a long standing dilemma I understand.

I agree a sub £300 Atik guide only cam would fill a gap.

[NickK]

I agree a sub £300 Atik guide only cam would fill a gap.

I picked up my 16IC for £250 well worn secondhand.

Dither guiding needs control of both cameras - essentially it moves the reference point between main images so that the image moves one pixel at a time. Any hot pixel and repeatable noise pattern then follows the camera and not the reference point.

Using sigma noise can then remove it.

[Gina]

To me it seems the Titan is neither one thing nor the other. If you want a guide camera the QHY5 is much cheaper.

[Tinker1947]

I know next to nothing about CCD's so if this is any good or not i can't say, will leave to those that know.....

First Light Optics - Starlight Xpress CoStar CMOS Autoguider

[Sp@ce_d]

I know next to nothing about CCD's so if this is any good or not i can't say, will leave to those that know.....

First Light Optics - Starlight Xpress CoStar CMOS Autoguider

Yup I've got one.. has a wider FOV than the qhy5 I also have. I got it as it also works on the Macs. Works great with the 9x50 finder.

[NickK]

Only thing I would add about the Titan vs webcams:

* the image is not compressed

* it has cooling which helps noise with OAG at f/12 for example

* uk based company if it needs attention

I think the advent of webcams into planetary imaging has changed the game.

[Sammyb]

Hello - just a comment but I have a colour Atik Titan and found it to be lacking on planetary imaging. I really struggled to get anything close to what I could achieve with an SPC 900NC which only cost me £30. The image and colour was very poor, and is much more faff to process loads of single images instead of an avi. I also struggled with debayering and processing all the files in registax. Can also only achieve 15fps. I gave up trying to use it for planetary.

I tried a little bit of lunar with the Titan but not enough to comment fully.

It is OK as a starter introductory CCD for DSOs but the chip is small.

[mindburner]

i hadn't a clue about guiding and got a QHY5, ST80 and PHD. I must say the combo is fantastic. It just works!

I use a modded webcam for planetary

[x6gas]

I have a QHY IMG0H as my requirements were exactly the same as yours.

Astrolumina ALccdIMG0H Farb-Kamera, gekühlt

It has the same SONY 618 chip as the very popular DMK21AU618 but has built in ST-4 guiding capability and TEC cooling to 30 degrees below ambient (not set-point cooling though unfortunately).

I've used it for planetary imaging with some success (though my planetary images are more limited by my ability rather than the camera to be honest!) it will do 30 fps in 14 bit mode, 56 fps in 8 bit and will produce a range of file formats including AVI. It guides using PHD without a problem. It is also advertised as being capable of DSO stuff (due to cooling and unlimited exposure time) but I haven't tried that...

I'm impressed with the hardware, but the software with this cam isn't great and QHY have a reputation for unfriendly SDKs so these cameras are not supported by SharpCap and probably never will be.

However, FireCapture now does have support which looks really encouraging and could be a break through for this platform. If it ever stops raining I'll try it out.

I don't own an Imaging Source camera, but people speak highly of them and there are loads of great results on the imaging forum, but the IMG0H does just what I want - capable planetary imaging and guiding via ST-4.

Ian

[riklaunim]

For planetary imaging - DMK21AU618. It can also be used as a guider via direct mount connection (as it doesn't has ST4). For guiding "only" - second hand QHY5 is a good option.

[Zakalwe]

I was looking at the widely used QHY but may set my sights higher to something like an ATIK Titan which would give me a better camera for lunar/planet work (even some basic DSO).

So I could use the Titan as a very good guide cam whilst imaging with my DSLR, also use it unguided for moon imaging etc. I understand they are more reliable than the QHYs as well.

Why do you say that the QHYs aren't reliable?

The QHY5 is pretty close to being the "standard" for guiding at that price range. It also makes for a good planetary camera too.

[riklaunim]

Why do you say that the QHYs aren't reliable?

QHY is cool when it works... and QHY cams don't work always - some have bad experience with those cams and that's why not everyone likes them... even now you can't use QHY5* in SharpCap or Nebulosity due to unknown problem with the ASCOM driver or it usage...

[Zakalwe]

QHY is cool when it works... and QHY cams don't work always - some have bad experience with those cams and that's why not everyone likes them... even now you can't use QHY5* in SharpCap or Nebulosity due to unknown problem with the ASCOM driver or it usage...

If you go looking, then you will find stories where ANY camera has given bad experiences (yes, even the mighty Atik).

The QHY5 guides very well with PHD, which integrates well with Neb.

The supplied software (QVideo) works fine for imaging too.

I can only go on what I have experienced, rather than rehashing rumours (and I am not implying that your post was based on rumours.) I have 3 QHY cameras (the 5, the 8L and the IMG132e) and they have all worked extremely well.

[riklaunim]

QHY5 in PHD works for me too but not in other apps.

This brand has just worse marketing than for example Atik and that is also backed by some software issues they had and sometimes still have.