HELP, NEQ6 Alt bolt disaster!!

[KE400]

Hi Folks

Had a bad night out last night. I was doing the usual set up and polar alignment when the Alt bolt stuck. Tried for ages to free it up being very carefull not to damage the mount but it wouldn't budge at all. Then disaster struck with a jolt which didn't sound very good. I've managed to get the bolt out which was the upgraded astroimprovements type which I fitted soon as the mount arrived. However, it looks like a chunk of the mount has crumbled away and the bolt slipped under the cam resulting in bending the bolt. Luckily the thread is not crossed on removal of the bent bolt but that's the only plus point . Have to say that I'm not too impressed with the design of the adjustment and cam as this accident looks like it was waiting to happen using the UK's latitude settings at some point.

Took some pics of the resultant mess and have ordered a new replacement bolt again being the upgraded type, I also noticed that the mount was very very stiff so have tried to free that up a bit too and it seems to move more freely now with WD40. My only concern now is that with the piece of the cam now crumbled away, the new bolt will do exactly the same. Any suggestions on how to engineer a fix would be greatly appreciated, I'm thinking maybe a nut of some sort threaded to the end of the bolt in contact with the cam may do the job but not too sure. Hope it's not the end of the mount!

[r3i]

Hi Kevin,

I have an old post in this forum that gives links to a couple of threads on the Cloudy Nights forum, which you may find useful.

They discuss epoxing steel plates to the altitude adjustment cam.

Link to my old post here: http://stargazerslounge.com/member-equipment-reviews/118097-neq6-pro-synscan-one-persons-initial-thoughts-2.html#post1569249

[KE400]

Thank you, really appreciate it

[Gasman]

I do sympathise Kevin!! I too had the same `carry on` last week with the supplied SW bolts. Used it once and the south facing bolt bent with hardly any force on it. Seems a very bad design in that the bolts are pushing on a sloping surface so the slightest tension and it will try and go the in the direction of the slope????. It seems that the south facing bolt simply acts as a stop for the other one so I try not to put too much tension on that one and simply home in with the other. So far it seems to be the only flaw in what is an otherwise excellent mount. Hope you sort it ok!

Steve

[beamish]

ooh thanks for that cos I'm sure when I've adjusted mine I can feel it slipping

[Kai]

Just a question , were you adjusting the mount loaded up with counterweights / scopes etc or was it just a "bare" mount ?

[KE400]

Just a question , were you adjusting the mount loaded up with counterweights / scopes etc or was it just a "bare" mount ?

I was polar aligning with everything on (scope & counter weights), I've done this many times prior to this and not had a problem until last night but having read up a little now should polar align with them off.

[beamish]

I don't see how that should make a difference TBH, yeah PA without the kit, but good practice says adjust again with all the kit on, cos lets face -it will move ! The stnd adjustment screws are trash but what's really damaging is the scarring they inflict as they warp. I think for the money It's what you get but, not a difficult fix- some steel plate ,epoxy and some replacement st. steel screws

[JamesF]

I've had the same problem with my EQ3-2, but couldn't find a suitable replacement bolt. In the end I managed to remove it and straighten it pretty well. When I reassembled it I fiddled a brass end cap for some small bore (8mm or 10mm I think) copper tube onto the end of the bolt. It's not brilliant, but it does increase the area that bears on the cam and can rock slightly to help maintain the contact area.

James

[Kai]

It would be interesting to see if there are more instances of this failure the further North you go as you are having to wind the screw in further.

[m.tweedy]

Look on this thread MG1 (Mike) had a similar problem and see item 15 how he solved it. You could PM him

http://stargazerslounge.com/diy-astronomer/125788-neq6-strip-tune.html

[Slim]

I have encountered a similar problem. Last night during a polar align I noticed the south side altitude adjustment bolt felt a little strange. Took the scope back inside removed both bolts and moved the mount manually through it's full altitude range without out problem. Got a little torch and had a look inside to inspect where the bolts made contact with the mount. The south side, as you can see from the pic below is a mess. Looks like a large chunk is missing. I think the altitude bolt might even now slide under there rendering the mount useless. I've only had it a little over 3 months and used it maybe 15 - 20 times. Gutted. Have emailed FLO about them getting a replacement to me.

[hayju01]

Have I missed something here? Is it necessary to change the alt during PA? I may check its set to correct Lat when I put my mount outside just after levelling but I rarely have to alter it. I certainly don't alter it as part of the PA process. Should I be?

I can see it make sense if you travel to a different site with diff lat but otherwise it should be the same.

Did I miss something?

I have to agree though that the engineering leaves alot to be desired! I swapped out the original bolts due to horror stories like this.

[Slim]

Have I missed something here? Is it necessary to change the alt during PA? I may check its set to correct Lat when I put my mount outside just after levelling but I rarely have to alter it. I certainly don't alter it as part of the PA process. Should I be?

I can see it make sense if you travel to a different site with diff lat but otherwise it should be the same.

Did I miss something?

I have to agree though that the engineering leaves alot to be desired! I swapped out the original bolts due to horror stories like this.

I slacken off both my alt bolts when the sope is not in use to reduce the stress on them after reading about bending bolts. The alt position of the scope sometimes gets knocked when I'm moving the mount inside and outside.

[perfrej]

This is a classic. I re-threaded my hole at a slightly steeper angle. The reason for this is that the bolt actually slips off the cam when you pass about the latitude where I live (a little over 59°N). I had to grind some material off the base of the cam, like on the "hub" that the cam is attached to, in order for the bolt to get clear passage up to the cam.

That design is a mess.

/per

[Slim]

This is a classic. I re-threaded my hole at a slightly steeper angle. The reason for this is that the bolt actually slips off the cam when you pass about the latitude where I live (a little over 59°N). I had to grind some material off the base of the cam, like on the "hub" that the cam is attached to, in order for the bolt to get clear passage up to the cam.

That design is a mess.

/per

Wow, I guess the bit that broke off my cam turned my 54 degrees into your 59 degrees. How did you go about re threading the hole at a steeper angle?

[Peter Drew]

I think the cam was designed to operate at lower latitudes than the UK, the UK being near the maximum adjustment potential. Another problem seems to be that the latitude axis is generally too tight, this requires unnecessary force to make adjustments. It should be possible to adjust the mount relatively easily fully loaded as the system should be balanced provided that the scope is parked with the counterweights at their lowest position and the scope pointed at Polaris. At other positions there will be increased weight on the latitude axis which is a horizontal axis.

[r3i]

Another problem seems to be that the latitude axis is generally too tight, this requires unnecessary force to make adjustments.

Another mod that I recall from the CN forum addressed this by replacing 3 bolts that are hidden under the plastic latitude scale disk with bolts that can be easily adjusted, so that the tension on the latitude axis can be eased off whilst the altitude is adjusted, then locked back down again.

[Slim]

Another mod that I recall from the CN forum addressed this by replacing 3 bolts that are hidden under the plastic latitude scale disk with bolts that can be easily adjusted, so that the tension on the latitude axis can be eased off whilst the altitude is adjusted, then locked back down again.

That hasn't been a problem with mine but I can see how it would be beneficial to take all the tension of the bolts. I also reckon it may be beneficial along with a steel plate on either side of the cam to rethread the altitude bolt holes with stronger material.

Something like these Time Sert inserts Wrth UK Ltd. - Time-Sert would ideal and look very easy to install.

uP2Up_hG7rc

This would be beneficial for those who have damaged their threads as a result of bending bolts but also for new scopes as it massively reduces the chance of damaged threads and should keep the bolt running straight and true.

[r3i]

This post has a picture of what I was referring to: Telescope Reviews: Re: Is 40 lbs. too much for an Atlas EQ-G?

[Slim]

This post has a picture of what I was referring to: Telescope Reviews: Re: Is 40 lbs. too much for an Atlas EQ-G?

Looks like a good tidy job. Definitely something to consider.

Edit: I know I've read it somewhere on here but after a 10 minute search I can't find it again. What are the sizes of the altitude bolts on the EQ6?

[perfrej]

Wow, I guess the bit that broke off my cam turned my 54 degrees into your 59 degrees. How did you go about re threading the hole at a steeper angle?

Just use a larger hole and then larger bolts. I'm at M10 (or maybe it was M12). Drill it up at an angle to the original hole and thread it. Bolts are easy to come by.

To me, the whole cam business is poor design. Look at the "real" mounts, they all have a threaded screw to set the latitude. No cams, just threads.

/per

[Slim]

Just use a larger hole and then larger bolts. I'm at M10 (or maybe it was M12). Drill it up at an angle to the original hole and thread it. Bolts are easy to come by.

To me, the whole cam business is poor design. Look at the "real" mounts, they all have a threaded screw to set the latitude. No cams, just threads.

/per

Thanks for that Per, think I'm going to go with the Wurth Time_Sert method, if I can find them in the UK, ebay seems the only place to get them so far. And I think I'll also mount some 1.2 mm stainless steel on either side of the cam as MG1 has done. I think having a much tougher thread for the bolts and a tougher surface for them to contact will be beneficial in the long run.

I agree about the cam design. Seems to be very shoddy and destined to fail in this way.

[JamesF]

I guess what you really want is a toothed quadrant in place of the cam, co-axial with the alt pivot and meshing with a worm drive on the adjustment shaft -- just a heavier duty version of the slow-mo controls, really. Some sort of locking mechanism might be nice, too.

Alternatively it might really be neater to have the adjuster at the side so its axis is parallel to the alt axis. Have the adjuster coupled to a fixed gear on the mount body through a reduction gear.

Oh that I had time enough for lathes, to misquote Robert Heinlein.

James

[KE400]

I've emailed FLO to see if there is something they can do as a mount of this price shouldn't fail so easily after such a short period of time!