What a difference a dark sky makes

[Matthew.Blake]

So last Sunday morning I was tinkering with my mount because it had been making some "Grrrk" noises as it slewed. Come the evening and a very clear sky I didn't have the heart to then align everything and set it back up so I went for a drive with my wife 20 miles south of Coventry (somewhere round Essington I think) where there was little light pollution. My word. Through some 10x50 binoculars with ruby coating for added lameness I got a better view of M42 than I ever have through my 200p! Even my wife was impressed, romantic and awe inspiring!

[russ]

A truly dark sky and a small aperture scope knocks spot off a large aperture scope in a poor LP location.

Given the choice of:

1/ 18" Obsession with Feathertouch focuser, full set of Ethos eyepieces and a full set of Zeiss Orthos as a backup plus my poo skies back home

or

2/ 102mm Startravel on AZ3 with full set of Skywatcher cheapy Ultrawide 66's but with mindblowingly good skies

I'd take option 2 thanks

My 50mm finderscope at Kelling ran circles around the views i got through the main scope back home.

[Matthew.Blake]

I've just got to find the time to get my scope down there now new baby has arrived!

[Brett]

Congrats on the new arrival Matthew

Ive yet to see a proper dark sky, I live in W/London and as you can imagine LP is rough here with heathrow round the corner and C/London only 15 mins away. Im off to the isle of wight in july and cant wait to see the milky way for the first time with my 130p. Even the kids are in awe of the pics ive shown them and are eager to look themselves !!!

Regards

Brett

[Capricorn]

Brett, if dark then you won't need or want a 130p for the milky way.

Eyes will be more then adaquate.

It is the scale that impresses, all a scope will do is pick out a small piece of it.

[PeterW]

Just back from the Isle of Wight myself.... the western coast region, so the mainland is shielded and got an SQM reading of 21.4mag/arcsec^2.... translated as some of the darkest you'll get from the UK. Only trouble with July is that you won't have long to enjoy it!

All the best

PEterW

[acey]

Totally agree - the most important thing for deep-sky observing is not the equipment, it's the quality of the sky. My back garden gets to limiting mag 4.5 at best, so I drive 45 minutes to a place where it's mag 6. It's equivalent to doubling my aperture. M42 through the 12-inch is just amazing.

[Doc]

I also agree but if someone wanted to give me a 18" Obsession with Feathertouch focuser, full set of Ethos eyepieces and a full set of Zeiss Orthos as a backup plus my poo skies back home I might be tempted

[F15Rules]

When you think about it, it's bloomin obvious, really!..if we can see so much more with the naked eye from a dark site than we can from our back garden, the same MUST apply to our scopes and binoculars..

...so, the "sell" to the wife is..."let's move to the country, dear..yes, the house will cost more, but I won't need to keep trawling Ebay, SGL, UK Astro etc etc for more and more kit that I simply must have to help me cope with these urban skies...in the new country house I'll be happy with a Skywatcher 70mm refractor!!!"...yeah, right!!:D

[acey]

Been trying it for years, mate. "Too far from the shops.":(

[russ]

I also agree but if someone wanted to give me a 18" Obsession with Feathertouch focuser, full set of Ethos eyepieces and a full set of Zeiss Orthos as a backup plus my poo skies back home I might be tempted

It does sound rather nice that setup and more than tempting..

Just need a lottery win, can have it all then.

[Adrian Condon]

Interesting comments, I am planning a trip to the West coast of Scotland in mid-May through to mid-June to get dark skies. A number of questions arise,

1) Given a clear night how many hours of darkness I am likely to get?

2) How many clear nights am I likely to get in the month?

3) Is it worth taking my 10" Dob or would I be better off just using my birding scope?

I will be using the birding scope during the day for the seabirds and eagles.

4) I have been to Scotland on numerous occasions to climb mountains and play golf,

usually mid July to September and the nights are usually workable for these

activities till 22:30 or even later.

5) How active are the midgies in May, I was camping on Skye last June and got

eaten alive on a number of mornings.

6) Would I be better advised going to the east coast north of Inverness instead as

the East of Scotland is usually drier?

Answers and suggestions please............

Thanks

Adrian

[Casus belli]

Answers to Adrian

1. None from mid may to august.

2. Clouds in Scotland? I dont know, we never see clouds for all the rain we get.

3. I never use my 10" dob in summer.

4. See answer 1.

5. Its (fervently) hoped that the cold winter we have just had has killed most hibernating midgies

6. Scotlands weather is predictable in its un-predictability. Try either a lucky rabbits foot, sacrificing a small animal to the weather gods or trusting in sheer blind luck. The west coast does get more rain but the east coast does suffer from the famous "Haar" (sea fog) during the early summer.

[acey]

Ditto to all that. I live in NE England and do no deep-sky observing mid-May to mid-August, sky just doesn't get dark enough. For dark skies at that time of year you need to head south, not north.

[russ]

The Isle of Wight maybe your best bet for summer observing. We still get 'workable' dark skies right through the summer on the extreme south coast. But the workable time shrinks to approx 90mins long (12.00am - 1.30am). Maybe a tad longer at a push.

But i'm guessing you are also hoping for that stunning Scottish scenery.

[Adrian Condon]

Hi,

Thanks for such great answers, I will be leaving the Dob at home..........

Incidentally, I have done the final section of the Welsh 3000s for the DAG group http://dag4hills.org.uk around 21st June on a number of occasions and on the clear nights we did not use torches. One night it was raining freezing rain and torches were used from about 22:45 pm.

I must admit that last summer on Skye, I walked the mile from the pub in Portree back to the campsite at 23.30 and got into the tent without any need for a torch. I could even see the Cullin Hills from the campsite. I nearly got up at 3:00am one morning as it was bright!!

Maybe the answer is to head for a Spanish mountain village.

Yes, I love Scotland, great scenery, birds, plants and mountains.

Thanks

Adrian

[skye at night]

Points 2-6 are irrelevant as ...

Point 1 - NONE....

The lack of an end to astronomical twilight means that here any astronomy is pretty much 'shelved' intil end August/September....

Plus.... Midges are active at low light levels, so can be 'out' all night as well.

Skye is Midge HQ.. although the general forecast for the W highlands is that the unusually cold and long winter will have 'culled' them a bit...

all we need is a dry spring and it could be a pretty midge free year...

Steve

[AndyH]

Planets can still be observed, but forget deep sky from May til July.

I also hope the very cold winter has culled the midge scum off. I'll believe it when I see it. I think the survivors will be out for blood revenge.

Andy.

[Adrian Condon]

Thanks, so the considered advise is forget the Dob and astro gear, bring loads of midgy oil, and a good book to read through the twilight hours.

I will weight myself before going and again afterwards to establish weight loss owing to midgy blood sucking.

Incidentally, about 20-25 years ago we used to go to the Haugh of Urr in Dumfries and Galloway on an annual basis for the October mid-term holiday and skies on a clear night were incredible, it was very cold. The night sky by the river was usual very dark by 20:00 each evening and there was no light pollution to speak of.

Unfortunately, I was not interested in astronomy then, used to spend most days playing golf at Southerness.

Maybe, I should consult her who decides, that it would be nice to go back for old times sake!! The kids have now grown up.

Cheers

Adrian

[themos]

Plenty of opportunities for wildlife spotting, though.

[Adrian Condon]

Hi,

After receiving your interesting comments, I went on to Starry Night and put Fort William in as a location.

Results for 21 June 2010 are:

Sunrise 04:22 am and sunset 22:22 pm.

Add the twilight of about 2 hours at each end if not more as the twilight in Scotland seems to last forever during the summer months.

I am glad I found out before arriving with the Dob and gear and looking stupid!

I will be bird watching instead..........

Incidentally, the readings for Malaga in Spain for the same date is:

Sunrise 05:59 am

Sunset 20:40 pm

plus from experience it is a short twilight... so could be looking at 5 to 6 hours of darkness in June.

Still going to Scotland.

Thanks

Adrian

[acey]

The crucial thing is Astronomical Twilight: various websites give it, I use timeanddate.com

Aberdeen has zero astronomical twilight in June:

Sunrise and Sunset for U.K. – Scotland – Aberdeen – June 2010

Madrid has about 5 hours:

Sunrise and Sunset for Spain – Madrid – June 2010

Morocco has over 6:

Sunrise and Sunset for Morocco – Casablanca – June 2010

And south of the equator you're into winter. But astro aside (and, er, weather), you can't beat Scotland any time of year! The birding scope will come in very handy - I'm sure you'll have a great trip.

[laser_jock99]

Hi,

Thanks for such great answers, I will be leaving the Dob at home..........

Incidentally, I have done the final section of the Welsh 3000s for the DAG group http://dag4hills.org.uk around 21st June on a number of occasions and on the clear nights we did not use torches. One night it was raining freezing rain and torches were used from about 22:45 pm.

I must admit that last summer on Skye, I walked the mile from the pub in Portree back to the campsite at 23.30 and got into the tent without any need for a torch. I could even see the Cullin Hills from the campsite. I nearly got up at 3:00am one morning as it was bright!!

Maybe the answer is to head for a Spanish mountain village.

Yes, I love Scotland, great scenery, birds, plants and mountains.

Thanks

Adrian

At that time of year heading south is the answer. If you want to fit in a bit of climbing then there are posibilities like the Sierra Nevada, Mount Tiede on Tenerriffe (Spains highest sumit) or even the High Atlas in Morrocco. Jbel Toubkal at 4167m (13,670 feet) is well worth the climb- although we did this in winter to avoid the summer screes. But you're guarenteed a few sparlking clear nights, totaly free of light pollution in the High Atlas mountains, plus much better views of southern sky objects as your'e only 31 deg North.

Jbel Toubkal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the slopes of Jbel Toubkal