Honest question about Takahashi

[SwiMatt]

This question might or might not be triggered by me maybe or maybe not considering actually buying the Takahashi FS-60CB...

Many people agree that this is one of the best optics ever produced for a telescope of this size. But I want to ask, are there any disadvantages or caveats when going the Takahashi way? 

For example, I read in several places that Takahashi has a bit of its own way of "doing stuff", so my fear is that going in this direction would make astronomy significantly more expensive after investing in such an expensive machine to start with. Does it become more expensive to buy any significant upgrade? Would I need to  Is it a telescope that comes with a commitment to the brand? 

[Elp]

See price of accessories.

[Mr Spock]

Standard finder shoes don't fit, you need a special Takahashi fit. More Blue do one.
Focusers are nasty - I had to spend a load on an FT for my 100. The 60 isn't too bad though.

The optics are great. If only they would bring the rest into line with modern scopes. The FS-60CB I have, has bitingly sharp optics. You can push it to the point where the image becomes too dark to see and it's still sharp.

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

2 hours ago, SwiMatt said:

This question might or might not be triggered by me maybe or maybe not considering actually buying the Takahashi FS-60CB...

Many people agree that this is one of the best optics ever produced for a telescope of this size. But I want to ask, are there any disadvantages or caveats when going the Takahashi way? 

For example, I read in several places that Takahashi has a bit of its own way of "doing stuff", so my fear is that going in this direction would make astronomy significantly more expensive after investing in such an expensive machine to start with. Does it become more expensive to buy any significant upgrade? Would I need to  Is it a telescope that comes with a commitment to the brand? 

Here are some of the potential disadvantages, as I see them... The focuser has limited travel, so you may or may not need to use adapters to accomplish your goals. The holes used to attach the finder are spaced at a distance unique to Takahashi, so you would need to use the Tak finder or use an adapter that enables attaching a typical finder. The focuser is single-speed, and not everyone like Takahashi focusers. Tube rings (e.g., More Blue) and the Takahashi tube cradle tend to be comparatively expensive. The visual back that comes with the FS-60CB is for 1.25" accessories, so you would need to buy an additional thing or two to use 2" accessories. And while the FS-60CB is a very nice telescope, I think that there are other, less expensive telescopes of that size that will offer nearly the same optical quality.

Here are some of the potential advantages, as I see them... The FS-60CB is a very nice telescope, which will offer views that, in my experience, are visibly sharper and more contrasty than other, less expensive telescopes of that size. You can use the extender to make it into the FS-60Q, which is an even better (in my opinion) visual observing instrument, and being able to switch between CB mode and Q mode gives you versatility. Takahashis are beautifully made, and so are their relatively expensive accessories.

I think choosing an FS-60CB may require buying a couple of accessesories that you might not buy otherwise, but I don't think it requires a lifelong commitment to Takahashi. That's what an FS-102 is for 😉 

Edited 9 hours ago by Emperor!Takahashi!

[Earl]

Adapters are sometimes an Issue.

[Stuart1971]

2 hours ago, SwiMatt said:

This question might or might not be triggered by me maybe or maybe not considering actually buying the Takahashi FS-60CB...

Many people agree that this is one of the best optics ever produced for a telescope of this size. But I want to ask, are there any disadvantages or caveats when going the Takahashi way? 

For example, I read in several places that Takahashi has a bit of its own way of "doing stuff", so my fear is that going in this direction would make astronomy significantly more expensive after investing in such an expensive machine to start with. Does it become more expensive to buy any significant upgrade? Would I need to  Is it a telescope that comes with a commitment to the brand? 

Be very careful if you want to image through it, or some of the bigger Taks, as they are not so good with modern small pixel cameras, I had the FSQ85 and it was awful with my QHY268, to the point where Takahashi saw the issue and had to develop a second flattener to use on the FSQ85, ( now included with any new FSQ85) which is by design a flat-filed petzval designed  scope with a flattener built in, it’s the only scope in the world that needs 2 field flatteners to work, and even then it’s not great at all, so yes, they can be very quirky…👍🏻

[Roy Challen]

I've recently been asked this very question by another member so I'll just copy and paste my response here. Much of it echoes the above.

Obviously, optical quality is superb. The difficulty with this scope is what to use it for.

As a lightweight grab and go scope, it is one of the best. I use it with an Altair Mini AZ (aka TS Optics T6) and a Horizon aluminium tripod. Mainly, I use an Explore Scientific 16mm 68° eyepiece and SvBony 3-8 zoom. I use it for Jupiter, Saturn, sometimes the moon, and very rarely DSOs (but not so much due to light pollution).

 

 Now, due to its very short focal length, you need sub-3mm eyepieces to get high power for planetary observation, but with only 60mm aperture, you're never going to resolve the fine detail. What you can see is very sharp and clear, no CA etc, but even an 80mm scope will show more. As an example, my f/16 76mm aperture achro can see Iapetus, Titan and Rhea simultaneously, but the FS60-CB cannot see Rhea or Iapetus at all, at least not from my garden.

 

 It can see barges and festoons on Jupiter's cloud belts, GRS, transits, it can show the Cassini division on nights of good seeing. I haven't used it on Mars yet. It is no good for Venus - too much CA without a filter. It is good for splitting double stars, Izar, Epsilon Lyrae etc. Also good for open clusters. It is good on the moon, but my achro achieves higher magnification more easily so I prefer to use that most of the time for lunar observation, even with the CA.

 

 What else? I don't bother with a finder, the ES 16mm is wide enough - 3°. I also use a Herschel wedge for solar white light observation. One thing to be aware of is that the focuser has very limited travel, so some diagonal/eyepiece combinations won't work. For example , the SvBony zoom 3-8 does not focus with a Herschel wedge in this telescope. For night time, toI use a Tal diagonal, which has a very short light path. Also, Takahashi accessories are very expensive, if you need adaptors or whatever, make sure they'll work before buying!

 

 With regards to terrestrial observing, yes, it could do that. The closest focus I can achieve is around 15 metres, and have used to observe birds in my garden. I would suggest a 45° diagonal to make things easier, but as mentioned above, you'll need to be sure it works before buying.

 My opinion is that if you have a good 80mm, then this will not really improve things, unless weight and portability are priorities. I bought mine second hand from a member here, and because of years of pestering my wife, she finally approved the purchase 😀. I do love this telescope, but it doesn't do anything that my achro doesn't, and if I had to sell one telescope tomorrow, it would be the Tak (not gonna happen though!).

Having said all that, I do love it, and it gets used just as much as my other scopes.

Hope that helps.

Edited 9 hours ago by Roy Challen

[tico]

What telescopes similar in quality and uses but at a lower price could be compared to the FS 60CB? Has anyone been able to compare?

[SwiMatt]

Thank you for all the answers so far.

I didn't put much context as I wanted general answers and not just answers related to my context

Long story short, I have the intention of buying a small apo, mainly because I travel a lot to better skies and I would like to have a good travel set up - that then I would use for widefield at home, for sure. So the current choice is between 70-ish (larger aperture) or 60-ish (better mobility). Since in these discussions the Tak always comes up, I wanted to have a real discussion about it, since I could stretch my budget there - but looking at some of these answers, I don't think I will.

[Jim L]

You will not be disappointed with a FS-60. The optics are superb, and therefore so are the views; it’s tiny and light, and has a huge field of view.

Are there downsides? No. I’m not sure what accessories our friends are concerned about, but a Hercules finder shoe is $18.50, and it’s the same as the More Blue shoe:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251801784877842.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller.1.6f0cLtTaLtTaoO&gps-id=pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.354490.0&scm_id=1007.40050.354490.0&scm-url=1007.40050.354490.0&pvid=e231f2dd-a507-44c6-b800-39bd415a05fd&_t=gps-id:pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.354490.0,pvid:e231f2dd-a507-44c6-b800-39bd415a05fd,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238112%231997&pdp_npi=4%40dis!USD!18.50!18.50!!!18.50!18.50!%402101e83017220942789117572e953c!66342267757!rec!US!2861702980!XZ&utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller|query_from%3A

Rings cost the same for a FS-60 as they do for any other scope. As for the rest of the ”accessories”, again, it’s no different from any other scope you might purchase, so unless you’re put off by the need for a finder shoe I can’t see any downside.

I do see plenty of upside, and particularly so for a travel scope. You’ll always be impressed at the what this beautiful scope will show you through the eyepiece. I am.

Stretch your budget if you’re able. The likelihood is that you’ll have many scopes over the years - some will come and some will go - but a FS-60 is a scope you will almost certainly keep forever.

 

Don’t let it’s diminutive size mislead you. It’s only tiny on the outside and performs as well or better than larger, but lesser, scopes. That’s what I always find most fascinating about the FS-60

Edited 6 hours ago by Jim L

[John]

I have not been disappointed in any way with the Takahashi that I bought 8 years ago - an FC100. I recently acquired a Tele Vue 85mm which does have a better focuser than the stock Takahashi one (which was itself pretty good once properly adjusted). 

I'm just a visual astronomer though so perhaps not as particular as imagers ?

For visual use (solely) I don't feel inclined to own a scope below 70mm in aperture, very nice though I'm sure the Tak 60's are.

[dweller25]

I like Taks, every one of the 4 Tak refractors I have owned had superb optics.

I tend to not use Tak tube cradles or finders as they are expensive.

The focusers are standard rack and pinion and are fine, the full size Feathertouch focuser I fitted to my FS128 was much better than the supplied Tak focuser but cost a small fortune. I have not tried a Tak MEF microfocuser yet.

To me it’s all about the optics and Tak optics are top tier.

 

[Captain Scarlet]

A left-field suggestion. Consider a used Leica Televid 62 APO spotting scope. Yes, it has a 45 degree diagonal which makes high altitudes awkward but not impossible. Optics are superb, as you’d expect from Leica. They are waterproof nitrogen-purged. You can get them for £5-600. That gives you astro and terrestrial possibilities in one unit.

I had one until a few weeks ago, but sold it to a friend as I’ve lately rarely used it, having now an 88mm spotter. He LOVES it.

[JeremyS]

5 hours ago, SwiMatt said:

Thank you for all the answers so far.

I didn't put much context as I wanted general answers and not just answers related to my context

Long story short, I have the intention of buying a small apo, mainly because I travel a lot to better skies and I would like to have a good travel set up - that then I would use for widefield at home, for sure. So the current choice is between 70-ish (larger aperture) or 60-ish (better mobility). Since in these discussions the Tak always comes up, I wanted to have a real discussion about it, since I could stretch my budget there - but looking at some of these answers, I don't think I will.

Or 76mm easily portable. Not sure how mobile you need it to be, but the Tak FC 76DCU is worth considering. The tube splits into two, too, if you want.

[dweller25]

8 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Or 76mm easily portable. Not sure how mobile you need it to be, but the Tak FC 76DCU is worth considering. The tube splits into two, too, if you want.

This looks like the perfect small portable scope to me 👍

[JeremyS]

Fits in backpack too.

[SwiMatt]

Once again, thank you all for these answers. I'm not sure it made my choice easier, but for sure better informed.

When it comes to the "unicity" of the Tak world, even if it's true that the scope itself comes as a bundle - i.e. doesn't need much more really - it still is a turn off for me. After one year in the hobby I am still expanding my collection of accessories for astro: it seems to me that Tak is a commitment, since various options of accessories become unaccessible on a Tak (typically: focuser shenanigans, were I not among those who like the focuser, or have problems with focus travel). Just expanding to 2" eyepieces - a step I might want to take eventually - comes with an extra price tag on it, which after buying a Tak will only be steeper as I only have so many kidneys to sell. Maybe these are false fears, but I'm sure you can understand them. 

@JeremyS I did consider the 76DCU! But the price is unaccessible for me at the moment. I put money away slowly (with a family to feed and all). But the 60mm does come with the chance of buying the 76 extension later, so that is part of my thought process too. 

[SwiMatt]

5 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Fits in backpack too.

Why does it have to look so nice and clean and beautiful though 🥲

[Highburymark]

I cannot fault this little fella. £300 new a couple of years ago, though they’re more expensive these days. Very sharp optics. Focuser is in a different league to the stock Tak focuser I had with the FC-100DC. Accessorising easy and cheap. FPL-53 glass etc.
But I don’t think I’d recommend any 60mm scope for serious observing. They are great for easy double stars and open clusters. Nice for medium powers on the Moon - I have a 2.5mm eyepiece that gives sharp views at 144x, but I haven’t taken it much higher. Wonderful as a daytime spotter. But there are many great options between 70mm and 80mm that will reward you with richer views, particularly in dark skies.

[Highburymark]

I should have said it’s an F/6 60ED, available under lots of brands.

[Mr Spock]

Other choices are available.

WO at £579 no accessories required https://www.firstlightoptics.com/william-optics/william-optics-zenithstar-61-ii-apo.html

[Elp]

16 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Other choices are available.

WO at £579 no accessories required https://www.firstlightoptics.com/william-optics/william-optics-zenithstar-61-ii-apo.html

This thing is sharp as anything, I'd be interested if/how much better an FC60 would be. Oh, and it works for photographic (with additional flattener of course), 2 inch or 1.25 accessories out of the box, places to mount additional affordable finder brackets, a two stage focuser...

Edited 42 minutes ago by Elp

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Appropriately, I got off the plane from Gothenburg exactly 24 hours ago.  A short, busy visit that co-incided with my being ill and also getting the sleeper train to Umeå and back the next day so sorry that I didn't say anything!  Still managed to clamber around the rocks at Saltholmen so if you saw an overweight, long-haired chap looking like he was about to fall over, now you know...

I've been seriously impressed with my Altair Starwave Ascent 70ED.  I've owned it for about seven months and whilst it's not in the same 'class' as the Takahashi, it is very portable, light, has good optics (although I will admit to being a relative beginner) and can be picked up second hand for less than 300GBP. 

My one is an older generation and does display a little CA on very bright objects but with the vast majority of viewing, doesn't.  I've seen clear cloud features and a transit shadow on Jupiter at relatively low magnification, too.  It's spectacular on the moon.

It also has a decent two-speed, two-inch rack and pinion focuser, with adjustable tension.  The whole thing is well put together.

No, it's not a Takahashi but if you want something grab-and-go that's inexpensive and decent quality, I would put it forward.

https://www.altairastro.com/altair-starwave-ascent-70ed-telescope---visual-and-astrophotography-bundle-464-p.asp