Brand loyalty

[JTEC]

Not to a name but to quality - a matter of opinion, of course, but at least one arrived at through experience that has included some costly but ultimately informative blunders.  As a result, I have come to favour certain brands, though not to the exclusion of trying anything  else.  Those are Televue and Takahashi for eyepieces, Baader for mirror and prism diagonals and Televue/Astronomik for visual filters (also have a couple of Baaders and DGM NPBs).  Cost constrains choices around mounts and scopes. I understand the commitment some observers have to Taks. I own a TEC and I would love to step out and show a nice big slice of fresh ‘brand loyalty’ to the men in Golden Colorado, but that isn’t going to happen any time soon or, for that matter, any time later either!

That said, there is a lot of fun and interest to be had from exploring the field with relatively affordable things like eyepieces, as the popularity of some of the Svbony offerings shows, and not allowing brand loyalty to limit enjoyment and even perhaps functionality.  And because not every eyepiece, for example, in a single brand and set is necessarily ‘the best’ at a given spec (say, Pentax XW 10mm vs Delos … you choose 🙂), it might make sense, if you want the ‘best’, to be prepared to mix and match a bit.

As a case in point, here’s what the guys - specifically Yuri Petrunin - at TEC choose to use with the binoviewer in their refractors. Presumably they could choose whatever they want and made these choices for reasons of functionality - there’s not much adherence to brand consistency here.

Edited July 14 by JTEC

[CraigT82]

I’m loyal to whoever has a sale on  

No particular affinity for any brand, I’m always on the lookout for the best bang for my buck and always function over form. 
Like an earlier poster said about Paramount products, if there is a less pretty competitor who offers the same performance for less money then that’s the one I’m buying. 

[Second Time Around]

I seem to be in the minority as I have no brand loyalty whatsoever.  I buy whatever is best of a particular type of item, and no one company is the best for everything.

I do a lot of research first (aren't forums great!) to work out what best fits my particular needs.  I then buy everything purely on performance, although I will pay extra for good after sales service.  The latter also determines where I buy from, with FLO being my first port of call.  This is because they've earned my loyalty for exceptional after sales service.

On so many products (not just astro) certain makes charge a higher price even if they're no better.  In fact, in some cases they may be almost or even totally identical except for the label - often boldly emblazoned on the product.

Talking of labels, I was shopping for a car once and the salesman tried to sweeten the deal by saying he'd throw in putting the name of the dealership on metal lettering at the rear of the car.

He didn't appreciate my asking how much extra discount I'd get for advertising his company!

Edited July 14 by Second Time Around

[John]

I have owned astro equipment for 40 plus years now and I have developed an affection and respect for certain brands over those years so they are usually my "first port of call" when considering adding something to my equipment collection.

I try not to be blinded by such loyalties though. I have had a few disappointments even from my favoured brands and I have also been sometimes very pleasantly surprised by a product from an alternative brand.  

My current inventory has become quite cosmopolitan in terms of brands now. 

As the years have gone by I've noticed that the differences in terms of performance and build quality between the so called premium brands and other brands (some relatively new to the scene) have slimmed down more and more to the point where they are wafer thin often or even occasionally simply not there, or at least not there to my eyes (which is what counts 😉)

Today we read of big names such as Meade and Orion (USA) looking very uncertain. I do often wonder which names will be the "movers and shakers" in tomorrows astro equipment world. Quite possibly not the ones that we might expect ? 

We live in interesting times !

 

 

 

[JeremyS]

38 minutes ago, John said:

Today we read of big names such as Meade and Orion (USA) looking very uncertain. I do often wonder which names will be the "movers and shakers" in tomorrows astro equipment world. Quite possibly not the ones that we might expect ? 

Or even pronounce 🤔

[dweller25]

6 hours ago, CraigT82 said:

I’m loyal to whoever has a sale on  

eeh bye gum, spoken like a true Yorkshire man 🤣👍

[Elp]

One of the things about brand loyalty nowadays, unless you buy from those that manufacture in house, a lot of the other stuff is made by one supplier (there are a handful that supply the industry) that the vast majority are unaware of, then brands stamp their name on the stuff and buyers may be unaware of the hard work done by the actual manufacturers. It's a trait not just specific to astro goods.

[saac]

15 minutes ago, Elp said:

One of the things about brand loyalty nowadays, unless you buy from those that manufacture in house, a lot of the other stuff is made by one supplier (there are a handful that supply the industry) that the vast majority are unaware of, then brands stamp their name on the stuff and buyers may be unaware of the hard work done by the actual manufacturers. It's a trait not just specific to astro goods.

You mean ASDA don't actually make digestive biscuits, or even corn flakes !

Jim 

[Elp]

11 minutes ago, saac said:

You mean ASDA don't actually make digestive biscuits, or even corn flakes !

Jim 

Fortunately not.

[CraigT82]

1 hour ago, dweller25 said:

eeh bye gum, spoken like a true Yorkshire man 🤣👍

I blame my Dad, a man who one day came home with a petrol lawnmower (we didn’t have any grass in the garden) and when questioned as to why he’d bought it his response was “it was half price”! 

[pipnina]

4 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

I seem to be in the minority as I have no brand loyalty whatsoever.  I buy whatever is best of a particular type of item, and no one company is the best for everything.

I do a lot of research first (aren't forums great!) to work out what best fits my particular needs.  I then buy everything purely on performance, although I will pay extra for good after sales service.  The latter also determines where I buy from, with FLO being my first port of call.  This is because they've earned my loyalty for exceptional after sales service.

On so many products (not just astro) certain makes charge a higher price even if they're no better.  In fact, in some cases they may be almost or even totally identical except for the label - often boldly emblazoned on the product.

Talking of labels, I was shopping for a car once and the salesman tried to sweeten the deal by saying he'd throw in putting the name of the dealership on metal lettering at the rear of the car.

He didn't appreciate my asking how much extra discount I'd get for advertising his company!

I think I'm in the same boat as you, I don't feel any attachment to a brand of kit whatsoever.

I'm far too picky about the performance and price to worry about who's name is on it.

However I would probably say in terms of *where* I get my stuff, I'd have to self-report as being a bit attached to FLO. When they answer basically any question even if they can't sell me something, while other retailers can't reply to me at all... I guess it's going to happen.

[John]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

One of the things about brand loyalty nowadays, unless you buy from those that manufacture in house, a lot of the other stuff is made by one supplier (there are a handful that supply the industry) that the vast majority are unaware of, then brands stamp their name on the stuff and buyers may be unaware of the hard work done by the actual manufacturers. It's a trait not just specific to astro goods.

In many cases, I think the manufacturers will apply any branding requested, provided that the brand orders enough units.

Exclusive agreements with a manufacturer (ie: they will only supply the item with your branding) cost quite a lot more. Sometimes these are time limited agreements (I think APM use these) and sometimes (eg: Tele Vue) they are exclusive sole brand agreements in perpetuity (even more expensive).

With brands such as APM and Tele Vue, the brand takes a very active or the leading role in design, materials and quality specification. With less exclusive agreements, brands can have choice of physical design elements such as body form, eye cup, colour scheme, maybe even optical coating specifications.

Where a design is available under a multitude of brandings and sometimes with only minor cosmetic differences, it is surprising that the eventual retail cost can vary quite substantially. I guess the brand makes a commercial decision on how much value / desirability their branding will add to the item for the consumer.

Forums such as SGL and others are one of the few ways that potential customers can get an insight into the likely source of a product and other brandings it may be available under.

Like others here, I put quite a bit of faith into the choices that FLO make on lines that they carry. IMHO they have been sensibly selective over the years and usually offer an item at a very competitive price with excellent pre and post sales service. A safe haven in the sometimes choppy and confused seas of equipment choices 🙂

 

 

Edited July 14 by John

[Captain Scarlet]

4 minutes ago, John said:

… Forums such as SGL and others are one of the few ways that potential customers can get an insight into the likely source of a product and other brandings it may be available …

I wonder to what extent some companies find this annoying. Or even, others might find it useful.

[Alan White]

I have no brand loyalty, but I do have a taste for excellent performance and good value.
Brand loyalty in many walls of life equates to mediocre performance at an inflated price.

Astro wise I do find a lean toward Japan made items,  but even that has drifted of late. 

I think to sum up my Astro kit is a broad church.

Edited July 14 by Alan White

[VNA]

Hello, always try to keep an open mind-I am always weary of overly popular brands which does not mean much.
Brand loyalty is a one way street. A certain brand is popular, for a while and then somebody comes up with a better mouse trap!
Also when it is popular it can become very expensive!

So, whatever floats your boat!

[Captain Scarlet]

I find the whole brand/marketing topic fascinating. A cynic would describe marketing and branding as varying levels of deception. At one end you have companies that sell products that are 100% pure re-branding of stuff that others produce, accompanied by a marketing story often including some sort of epiphany (and often a tissue of lies). At the other end you have companies, usually small and family-run, that produce the very best, do no marketing and survive on reputation deriving solely from high quality.

In the former category I won’t name names. But the latter I’ll happily mention names like Starlight Instruments, Televue, ADM, AP, TEC, Tak (do they market?). And close to them Baader, APM, Vixen.

Stellarvue is an interesting one. They started out as a re-brander, though doing their own testing thereby filtering out the bad’ns to justify their higher prices, and have “gone backwards” in the typical marketing path by simultaneously getting bigger and bringing everything in house, now manufacturing their own optics (disclosure: my own one-year-old Stellarvue 140mm refractor remains the most jaw-dropping telescope I’ve ever looked through).

Outside our own world, there are brands that started out small-and-excellent, acquired a cult-style reputation, then got big and/or bought and got pumped and ramped into huge brands, even fashion statements. Ray-Ban and Canada Goose spring to mind. I have an old Canada Goose Expedition parka that I’m embarrassed to wear now, I’ve even cut off the labels.

Sorry, late-night stream-of-consciousness rambles

Magnus

Edited July 14 by Captain Scarlet

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

My takeaway is that brand loyalty mainly afflicts those who have observed through a Takahashi.

 

 

 

😉😇🙃

[Saganite]

I once owned an FC100DC, very fine telescope, but I sold it because I am a Vixen man....

Edited July 15 by Saganite

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

10 minutes ago, Saganite said:

I once owned an FC100DC, very fine telescope, but I sold it because I am a Vixen man....

I suppose if it happened to Anakin Skywalker, it could happen to any of us.

[Elp]

8 minutes ago, Emperor!Takahashi! said:

I suppose if it happened to Anakin Skywalker, it could happen to any of us.

Would have thought that was a Coronado/Lunt/Quark switch to...

Any long term options usually lead to a black hole for finances anyhow.

Edited July 15 by Elp

[Saganite]

20 minutes ago, Emperor!Takahashi! said:

I suppose if it happened to Anakin Skywalker, it could happen to any of us.

The dark side ?

Maybe, but I can see the light just as well...

[John]

1 hour ago, Emperor!Takahashi! said:

My takeaway is that brand loyalty mainly afflicts those who have observed through a Takahashi.

 

 

 

😉😇🙃

I have owned an excellent Takahashi for 7 years now. 

I could have bought, and could still buy, more Tak's but personally I am enjoying owning and using other good brands of telescopes  as well - "variety is the spice of life" 🙂

 

 

Edited July 15 by John

[josefk]

10 hours ago, Captain Scarlet said:

I have an old Canada Goose Expedition parka that I’m embarrassed to wear now, I’ve even cut off the labels

Standing amongst a younger crowd on the terrace at Leicester Tigers all winter I recognise and respect the sentiment 😂. When/if you find it's time to replace the coat the answer is Woolrich - same grass roots in arctic industries (you can channel your inner MacReady from "The Thing" should you wish too), fabulous quality and only tiny discreet external marketing. 👍

[josefk]

10 hours ago, Captain Scarlet said:

I find the whole brand/marketing topic fascinating

I'm a Product Manager by profession and i too find the whole field of why and how we choose to supplement ourselves and our identity with material objects utterly fascinating. I'm in B2B so other buying criteria are stronger than branding in my field but i read a lot about it still - i read a fascinating paper a while ago that discussed how even marketing professionals who understand the emotional/psychological constructs of marketing (i.e brand story telling and why we are attracted or not by particular stories) are still themselves susceptible to those forces - i.e even knowing how the magic trick works they are not immunised.

Edited July 15 by josefk

[PeterStudz]

10 hours ago, Captain Scarlet said:

I find the whole brand/marketing topic fascinating.

Same here!

Although not my job I use to work with marketers and can well remember going to a conference about marketing and technology. It was around 2007/2008 and there was all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas about marketing new or possible near future tech. Out of interest I was taken by how young most of the marketers were. In comparison I was old.

At one point I held up my then very new first generation iPhone and suggested that maybe take a look at this, as to me this was the future of mobile. This brought smiles with replies along the lines of… “it’ll never catch on”, “it’s a toy”, “Apple will only ever capture a tiny amount of the mobile market”, “you need to look towards Nokia & BlackBerry”, “there’s no money in Apple”. All so wrong! Now, whatever you think of Apple they do some great marketing, but it was all very much “follow the money” and then Apple were the small guys. 

And for some reason this reminds me of pilchards and how rebranding pilchards to Cornish sardines massively helped to increase sales. Pilchards did, for some reason, have an image problem. Eg when I was younger a friend would only feed them to her cat. Although maybe it was the cat who had more taste!