SW 120ed v Starfield 102

[Flame Nebula]

5 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

News Flash…..

You are a refractor man 🤣

🤣, yes I may need to visit Refractors Anonymous, and stand up and say "My name's Mark, and I'm a refractaholic" 😁

(no offence intended to any of you who are alcoholics, or thinking about becoming one). 

Edited March 27 by Flame Nebula

[John]

I've had an ED120 for ages now (over a decade I think ?) and I think it's a really excellent telescope. I never tried the stock focuser because mine arrived (pre-owned) with a William Optics dual speed focuser on it which I later changed for a Moonlite dual speed. 

When I purchased my Tak FC100-DL and TMB/LZOS 130 F/9.2 a few years back I thought the ED120 might be overwhelmed by it's premium room mates but it holds it's place in my scope fleet very well and I still have it and use it a lot. I'm told that I must have a particularly good example but obviously I can only talk about the one that I have 🙂

 

[Flame Nebula]

I'm beginning to wonder if something like a used quattro 250mm F4 might be an option for planetary AP. I've seen these for sale at very low prices and some good images of Saturn. It would also be OK for visual, with coma corrector. 

[dweller25]

10 hours ago, Flame Nebula said:

I'm beginning to wonder if something like a used quattro 250mm F4 might be an option for planetary AP. I've seen these for sale at very low prices and some good images of Saturn. It would also be OK for visual, with coma corrector. 

Are you going round and round in circles ? 🤣

Too much choice these days 🤷🏻

BTW - checkout the planetary images posted by @Kon, he used a standard SW 8” F/6 Newtonian.

Edited March 28 by dweller25

[Elp]

There isn't really a wrong choice, but you have to make a choice regardless.

[Mr Spock]

I'd suggest taking a step back. You are moving between choices so rapidly at the moment you will end up making a mistake. Most people, when they buy a scope, will have had that scope in mind for quite a while.

[fwm891]

Although not for visual I've just got a pair of Askar 120 APO's I like that (if I ever go back to visual I can remove the back end and fit a bino viewer to one...) superb optics.

[Flame Nebula]

2 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

I'd suggest taking a step back. You are moving between choices so rapidly at the moment you will end up making a mistake. Most people, when they buy a scope, will have had that scope in mind for quite a while.

Indeed. I'm in a quantum state where I have both decided and not decided on the scope(s) I'm getting. 

[Flame Nebula]

6 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

Indeed. I'm in a quantum state where I have both decided and not decided on the scope(s) I'm getting. 

Three years ago, I'd decided it was going to be the C9.25. But some reviews concern me. 

[Space Hopper]

Aperture fever showing several symptoms here i think.......

[dweller25]

Hello Mark @Flame Nebula,

Perhaps you need to break things down a bit….

1. What is your total budget ?

2. What is your mount/scope kit list at the moment ?

3. What are you trying to achieve ?

4. Where do you live and what are your seeing conditions like ?

5. Do you need to move your kit around for an observing session ?
 

Edited March 28 by dweller25

[Flame Nebula]

25 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

Hello Mark @Flame Nebula,

Perhaps you need to break things down a bit….

1. What is your total budget ?

2. What is your mount/scope kit list at the moment ?

3. What are you trying to achieve ?

4. Where do you live and what are your seeing conditions like ?

5. Do you need to move your kit around for an observing session ?
 

Hi Dweller, 

1. In the region of £4K

2. Ed80, 127mm Mak. Az - Gti, D7000 dslr

3. DSO AP with ed80; planetary AP with good resolution ; splitting difficult doubles, including sirius. Planetary obs. Sharp clean views important. 

4. Nottingham area. Seeing varies, usually max out at 140 x with ed80,wrt sharpness. Naked eye limit about mag 4.5. 

5. Yes. Either from garage or house, depending on scope. Can't store it outside. Would need setting up each time. 

Oyher details : 59 yrs old, I'm told I have very early signs of cataracts (but I can't see any symptoms yet, that pleasure awaits). Reasonably strong when not having back issues (which randomly appear every so often) but in latter case, even setting up a tasco would be off the list.

Hope this helps paint a clearer picture. ☺️

Thanks 

Mark 

Edited March 28 by Flame Nebula

[mikeDnight]

An SCT may prove to be off-putting if you have to wait for it to cool each time you want to use it. With your budget I'd be looking to get the best scope for the money, and this is where we all differ. Whats best for one isn't necessarily best for another. Personally I'd grab myself a TSA120 for visual, and a no skill needed SeeStar 50 for DSO imaging. Slightly pushing your budget I know, but good stuff is worth fighting for!

Edited March 28 by mikeDnight

[dweller25]

54 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

Hi Dweller, 

1. In the region of £4K

2. Ed80, 127mm Mak. Az - Gti, D7000 dslr

3. DSO AP with ed80; planetary AP with good resolution ; splitting difficult doubles, including sirius. Planetary obs. Sharp clean views important. 

4. Nottingham area. Seeing varies, usually max out at 140 x with ed80,wrt sharpness. Naked eye limit about mag 4.5. 

5. Yes. Either from garage or house, depending on scope. Can't store it outside. Would need setting up each time. 

Oyher details : 59 yrs old, I'm told I have very early signs of cataracts (but I can't see any symptoms yet, that pleasure awaits). Reasonably strong when not having back issues (which randomly appear every so often) but in latter case, even setting up a tasco would be off the list.

Hope this helps paint a clearer picture. ☺️

Thanks 

Mark 

Ok, thanks.

You have a good budget but like me you like sharp clean views, have early cataract development, a bad back and move all your kit in and out for astro sessions.

It sounds like you have DSO AP covered with your ED80.

You can probably sell the 127 Mak to add funds to the kitty.

Your first choice probably needs to be the mount as that dictates what weight of scope you can use, You have mentioned an EQ6 in the past but they are heavy so would suggest you pay a visit to Rother Valley Optics and or your local astro club to see if you can manage one. 

Possibly the easiest choice for planetary and double star observing is a refractor but the OTA size depends on the mount. Refractors are less affected by the poor seeing we can get in the UK. Binoviewers are highly recommended for this.

I don’t do Planetary AP but would suggest a Newtonian with a rear mounted fan for quicker cool down, again the size is mount dependant.

Suggestion 1 : Heavy option (new prices)

SW EQ6 PRO: £1500

Askar 120 APO triplet: £1500

SW 10” F/5 Newtonian: £530

 

Suggestion 2 : Lighter option (new prices)

SW EQ5 PRO: £699

Starfield ED102: £899

SW 8” F/5 Newtonian: £349

Many other options are available 🙂

Hope that helps.

 

 

 

Edited March 28 by dweller25

[bosun21]

2 hours ago, Flame Nebula said:

Three years ago, I'd decided it was going to be the C9.25. But some reviews concern me. 

Three years! And you still haven't decided. If I were you I would narrow it down to the serious contenders, then list their pros and cons. Any reviews you read for the said telescopes try and ensure that they are from experienced observers. Even on this forum while I read every comment on equipment purchase and observing results etc, I only ingest and allow myself to be guided by those comments coming from experienced members whose many years at the eyepiece with different scopes forms the basis of their knowledge. I'll say it once again. If you can allow for the cool down time of an 180mm Maksutov then you will have the closest to apo refractor performance in my experience. They are sharper both for visual and planetary imaging than an SCT. They are also good for doubles. They are also compact and easy to transport. The other choice you mention is the ED120 or the SM125. Buying new then the 125 would be my choice simply for the extra 5mm aperture and the better 2.5" R&P focuser fitted as standard. When I'm personally deciding on buying a new telescope  it's on the particular model I'm purchasing, as I have decided on scope design and manufacturer some time prior. I also am a planetary enthusiast and have viewed and imaged the planets with refractors (both apo & achro), reflectors, SCT's as well as Maksutovs. The best views were from my 4" apo refractor with lovely colours and sharpness all round. The Maksutovs (once cooled) were snapping at the heels of the refractors along with the Newtonians. Slightly behind the Newts came the SCT's solely due to the views being softer. As you increase aperture the playing field changes in my opinion. Ideally we would just want to increase the size of our apo refractor scope but cost throws a proverbial spanner in the works. For planetary imaging then it's all about resolution to tease out the details on the planets surface which means aperture basically. For this reason it's large Newts and SCT's that are the scopes of choice. As you are already aware the seeing conditions here in the UK hinders the performance we can achieve with larger apertures. So I have found it to be something of a balancing act between conditions and equipment regarding the planets. I have captured images of the planets with a 180 Mak that I haven't beaten with a 300mm Newt. I know that this is solely due to the seeing conditions not being conducive to the larger scope.But I have started asking myself am I getting more enjoyment from several nice images with the smaller scope or perhaps the one excellent image (if any at all) from the larger scope. I am now in the smaller scope camp. I think I will settle on my existing 10" go to dobsonian and I will add a 180mm Maksutov onto my AZ-EQ6 for the nights of poorer seeing. Either that or a SM25 apo and I can then open the sky up to a multitude of amazing views and targets. The only thing that I do know for sure at this second is that it won't take me three years to decide. Good luck with whichever avenue you decide to venture down.

Edited March 28 by bosun21

[Nakedgun]

23 hours ago, russ said:

 the ED120 Pro is not heavy. If I can't be bothered lugging out the NEQ6, I'll use the CG5 and it works well for visual.

~

Agreed.

For outreach, I mount my SW120ED on a CG5, and it works fine.

 

.

[Flame Nebula]

13 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Three years! And you still haven't decided. If I were you I would narrow it down to the serious contenders, then list their pros and cons. Any reviews you read for the said telescopes try and ensure that they are from experienced observers. Even on this forum while I read every comment on equipment purchase and observing results etc, I only ingest and allow myself to be guided by those comments coming from experienced members whose many years at the eyepiece with different scopes forms the basis of their knowledge. I'll say it once again. If you can allow for the cool down time of an 180mm Maksutov then you will have the closest to apo refractor performance in my experience. They are sharper both for visual and planetary imaging than an SCT. They are also good for doubles. They are also compact and easy to transport. The other choice you mention is the ED120 or the SM125. Buying new then the 125 would be my choice simply for the extra 5mm aperture and the better 2.5" R&P focuser fitted as standard. When I'm personally deciding on buying a new telescope  it's on the particular model I'm purchasing, as I have decided on scope design and manufacturer some time prior. I also am a planetary enthusiast and have viewed and imaged the planets with refractors (both apo & achro), reflectors, SCT's as well as Maksutovs. The best views were from my 4" apo refractor with lovely colours and sharpness all round. The Maksutovs (once cooled) were snapping at the heels of the refractors along with the Newtonians. Slightly behind the Newts came the SCT's solely due to the views being softer. As you increase aperture the playing field changes in my opinion. Ideally we would just want to increase the size of our apo refractor scope but cost throws a proverbial spanner in the works. For planetary imaging then it's all about resolution to tease out the details on the planets surface which means aperture basically. For this reason it's large Newts and SCT's that are the scopes of choice. As you are already aware the seeing conditions here in the UK hinders the performance we can achieve with larger apertures. So I have found it to be something of a balancing act between conditions and equipment regarding the planets. I have captured images of the planets with a 180 Mak that I haven't beaten with a 300mm Newt. I know that this is solely due to the seeing conditions not being conducive to the larger scope.But I have started asking myself am I getting more enjoyment from several nice images with the smaller scope or perhaps the one excellent image (if any at all) from the larger scope. I am now in the smaller scope camp. I think I will settle on my existing 10" go to dobsonian and I will add a 180mm Maksutov onto my AZ-EQ6 for the nights of poorer seeing. Either that or a SM25 apo and I can then open the sky up to a multitude of amazing views and targets. The only thing that I do know for sure at this second is that it won't take me three years to decide. Good luck with whichever avenue you decide to venture down.

🤪, well, I've had the luxury of time, in that I have been slowly saving, but the day of final decision is 6 months away. As mentioned, I had really decided on the C9.25, but too many reports of mushiness have put me off. So, forcing a rethink now. 

[Flame Nebula]

23 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

Ok, thanks.

You have a good budget but like me you like sharp clean views, have early cataract development, a bad back and move all your kit in and out for astro sessions.

Your first choice probably needs to be the mount, you have mentioned an EQ6 in the past but they are heavy so would suggest you pay a visit to Rother Valley Optics and or your local astro club to see if you can manage one. 

Possibly the easiest choice for planetary and double star observing is a refractor but the OTA size depends on the mount. Refractors are less affected by the poor seeing we can get in the UK. Binoviewers are highly recommended for this.

I don’t do Planetary AP but would suggest a Newtonian with a rear mounted fan for quicker cool down, again the size is mount dependant.

Suggestion 1 : Heavy option (new prices)

SW EQ6 PRO: £1500

Askar 120 APO triplet: £1500

SW 10” F/5 Newtonian: £530

 

Suggestion 2 : Lighter option (new prices)

SW EQ5 PRO: £699

Starfield ED102: £899

SW 8” F/5 Newtonian: £349

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

 

Thanks Dweller, it seems we have been on similar trajectories. The mount I have been considering, and that has been a constant compared to scope choice 😁, is the az-eq6, due to its az ability, in addition to eq. It is a bit more expensive than Eq6, but potentially more flexible, especially if I was to mount a 10inch Newtonian on it. I suspect the latter can give better planetary AP than the C8 I had in mind. I might swap the Askar scope for the StellaMira 125 though at similar cost. 

Thanks for taking the time to come up with these suggestions 👍

[Nakedgun]

10 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

🤪, well, I've had the luxury of time, in that I have been slowly saving, but the day of final decision is 6 months away. As mentioned, I had really decided on the C9.25, but too many reports of mushiness have put me off. So, forcing a rethink now. 

~

I do no imaging so cannot comment on that aspect, but the best views of Jupiter I've had were through my C-Nine-Two-Five.

Which means seeing is everything.

 

 

.

[russ]

5 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

Thanks Dweller, it seems we have been on similar trajectories. The mount I have been considering, and that has been a constant compared to scope choice 😁, is the az-eq6, due to its az ability, in addition to eq. It is a bit more expensive than Eq6, but potentially more flexible, especially if I was to mount a 10inch Newtonian on it. I suspect the latter can give better planetary AP than the C8 I had in mind. I might swap the Askar scope for the StellaMira 125 though at similar cost. 

Thanks for taking the time to come up with these suggestions 👍

Also remember, what ever you decide to go with, it will be the wrong choice. It's a given. A couple of months or year down the road, you're start getting niggling doubts that you should have taken a different route. Then it starts all over again. It happens to us all.  

[John]

3 minutes ago, russ said:

Also remember, what ever you decide to go with, it will be the wrong choice. It's a given. A couple of months or year down the road, you're start getting niggling doubts that you should have taken a different route. Then it starts all over again. It happens to us all.  

Yep - that's certainly how I've found things, several times 🙂

[Flame Nebula]

30 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

Three years! And you still haven't decided. If I were you I would narrow it down to the serious contenders, then list their pros and cons. Any reviews you read for the said telescopes try and ensure that they are from experienced observers. Even on this forum while I read every comment on equipment purchase and observing results etc, I only ingest and allow myself to be guided by those comments coming from experienced members whose many years at the eyepiece with different scopes forms the basis of their knowledge. I'll say it once again. If you can allow for the cool down time of an 180mm Maksutov then you will have the closest to apo refractor performance in my experience. They are sharper both for visual and planetary imaging than an SCT. They are also good for doubles. They are also compact and easy to transport. The other choice you mention is the ED120 or the SM125. Buying new then the 125 would be my choice simply for the extra 5mm aperture and the better 2.5" R&P focuser fitted as standard. When I'm personally deciding on buying a new telescope  it's on the particular model I'm purchasing, as I have decided on scope design and manufacturer some time prior. I also am a planetary enthusiast and have viewed and imaged the planets with refractors (both apo & achro), reflectors, SCT's as well as Maksutovs. The best views were from my 4" apo refractor with lovely colours and sharpness all round. The Maksutovs (once cooled) were snapping at the heels of the refractors along with the Newtonians. Slightly behind the Newts came the SCT's solely due to the views being softer. As you increase aperture the playing field changes in my opinion. Ideally we would just want to increase the size of our apo refractor scope but cost throws a proverbial spanner in the works. For planetary imaging then it's all about resolution to tease out the details on the planets surface which means aperture basically. For this reason it's large Newts and SCT's that are the scopes of choice. As you are already aware the seeing conditions here in the UK hinders the performance we can achieve with larger apertures. So I have found it to be something of a balancing act between conditions and equipment regarding the planets. I have captured images of the planets with a 180 Mak that I haven't beaten with a 300mm Newt. I know that this is solely due to the seeing conditions not being conducive to the larger scope.But I have started asking myself am I getting more enjoyment from several nice images with the smaller scope or perhaps the one excellent image (if any at all) from the larger scope. I am now in the smaller scope camp. I think I will settle on my existing 10" go to dobsonian and I will add a 180mm Maksutov onto my AZ-EQ6 for the nights of poorer seeing. Either that or a SM25 apo and I can then open the sky up to a multitude of amazing views and targets. The only thing that I do know for sure at this second is that it won't take me three years to decide. Good luck with whichever avenue you decide to venture down.

Thanks Bosun, 

A very interesting post. Have you tried your 10" dobsonian on your az-eq6, or is it a flextube one? I had considered the 180mm mak, but could never find images of jupiter or saturn that matched those in sct or equivalent Newts. But, I note your comment about it in relation to a 300 mm Newtonian. I have been trying to avoid the dobsonian /newt path but primarily for visual observation. With planetary AP, I wouldn't be looking through it. Obviously the odd visual observation through it would be nice too. 

[Elp]

If you want to lighten the setup in this day and age consider a ZWO am3 or am5. The lack of needing counterweights is a godsend, with the ZWO you also don't need to spend time balancing ra and Dec because it has hd on both axis. The zwo also operates in EQ and alt az. Other options from ioptron are available.

[Flame Nebula]

8 minutes ago, Nakedgun said:

~

I do no imaging so cannot comment on that aspect, but the best views of Jupiter I've had were through my C-Nine-Two-Five.

Which means seeing is everything.

 

 

.

Hi, your not the first person who's said that about the C9.25 and Jupiter. But, I can't be sure if I'll end up in the mushy or Sharp view camp if I get one. 

[Elp]

You should attend an astro meet and look through a few scopes if you can.