Eyepiece comparison

[Mr Spock]

Interesting eyepiece that's for sure, and gradually gaining popularity too. My concern is the image quality at the shorter end, which is where you need it. There are quite a few comments about it.

I think for my FC100, for which I have purchased a premium diagonal to get the very best image quality I can, I'll stick to the 3.3mm TOE for high power planetary. I want to eke out the very last ounce of performance and the eyepiece is a very important part of that.

[Franklin]

23 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

I think for my FC100, for which I have purchased a premium diagonal to get the very best image quality I can, I'll stick to the 3.3mm TOE for high power planetary. I want to eke out the very last ounce of performance and the eyepiece is a very important part of that.

Totally agree and I have the HR and SLV ranges for that but for those short, impromptu sessions the zoom is very convenient.

[JeremyS]

I did a comparison on the SvBony set at 4mm, TV NZ at 4 and Tak TOE 4 mm on Jupiter last night. The scope was a Tak FC 100DZ. The seeing was not the best, but decent at times. So I am not drawing final conclusions yet. These are therefore first impressions.

The most remarkable observation is there is very little difference between them. The TOE pulled very slightly ahead on fine detail.

At this point I concentrated on the two zooms, swapping backwards and forwards. I formed the conclusion that the SvBony was marginally preferable. But wait! I was doing this in the dark and it was darn cold with my fingertips exposed in my Astro gloves. On switching on the torch I realised the zoom I preferred was actually the TV NZ! The form factor of the two is very similar.

In spite of that, I am very impressed by the SvBony. I also discovered it complements my Leica Zoom well. In fact the two together could be the mainstay of an airline portable kit.

What didn’t I like about the SVBony? 

1. Adjusting the FL is a bit too stiff. Much stiffer than the TV (or the Leica). I experienced similar with the APM SZ when I first got it, but zooming multiple times loosened that up. Not so with the SvBony yet.

2. The eye lens cap is loose and falls off

3. it’s a Chinese product and I prefer to but EPs made in US, Japan or Taiwan (or Portugal in the case of Leica 😊)

4. The name. You would have thought they could have come up with something more suitable and less embarrassing????

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, JeremyS said:

4. The name. You would have thought they could have come up with something more suitable and less embarrassing????

Or at least be pronounceable.

[John]

I wonder how long it will take for someone to find a mod that will ease the zooming action of the Svbony 3-8mm ?

Rather like happened with Tele Vue's "Instajust" system on the Radians and T4 Naglers.

Edited December 2, 2023 by John

[JeremyS]

9 minutes ago, John said:

I wonder how long it will take for someone to find a mod that will ease the zooming action of the Svbony 3-8mm ?

Rather like happened with Tele Vue's "Instajust" system on the Radians and T4 Naglers.

Do you mean a post market mod to fix existing units, John, or a redesign?

[John]

2 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Do you mean a post market mod to fix existing units, John, or a redesign?

Something that owners work out. My experience is that flaws (minor or more significant) in equipment rarely get addressed by manufacturers. Look at the weak primary springs still fitted to GSO made newtonians, for example, which have been known about for over a decade.

[F15Rules]

On 01/12/2023 at 15:02, John said:

Good write up @Franklin 👍

I used the Svbony 3-8 zoom with my TMB/LZOS 130 F/9.2 last night. I did compare it casually with the Nagler 2-4 zoom and the 3.5mm Pentax XW but didn't notice any significant differences, apart from the AFoV.

With the somewhat variable and cold conditions for observing last night detailed comparisons, when using magnifications of 300x plus, were a little futile I felt. Perceived differences could be just as much caused by variations in seeing, local heat emissions, thin high clouds or even a watering observing eye (due to the cold).

I might also not be such a fussy observer these days, having not been able to notice any difference between a Tak TOE 4mm and the Nagler 2-4mm zoom on the occasions when I compared them back in the summer, despite a number of other folks assuring me that there is a noticeable difference 😉

 

I tend to agree John.

As I get older and my eyes aren't quite what they used to be, I value comfort in use more and more. 

I find I literally dont have the time, inclination or patience to nitpick over the very minutest of details about the performance  of scopes or eyepieces: for one thing, many of these claimed small "differences" are very subjective and might not be replicable from one night to another.

What with variables in the UK such as seeing, transparency, humidity, aircraft con trails, temperature, local light pollution, local air pollution, etc etc, (oh, and my eyes water more in cold weather too, John!😖), its no wonder that it can be very difficult to make really accurate, objective assessments of individual eyepieces, (or scopes)!

Another key consideration for me is the balance point of my scope.. my 5" Tak Fluorite doublet is quite front heavy (though not as much as a Triplet). I have settled for the past good while now on Maxbright II binoviewers for much of my observing: I use quite lightweight eyepiece pairs in these, which don't necessitate rebalancing of the scope when switching out eyepieces. But the BVs are quite heavy, and my scope is adjusted for most use with the Binoviewers installed.

Similarly, for Cyclops, I have settled on 3 main eyepieces, all of which are quite large and heavy: Pentax XL Zoom 8-24mm (also used if necessary with my Baader Zoom Barlow 2.25x ), turning the Pentax into a 3.55mm to 10.66mm zoom (giving me a total range of magnifications for both  zooms from a maximum of 292x down to a minimum of 43x in the Tak).

At all these powers the Pentax zoom is comfortable, very sharp, and ever-so-nearly as good as its XW/Morpheus equivalents (I've  owned several examples of both)..in fact good enough for my needs.

My other two lower power eyepieces are 23mm and 31mm Axiom LX 84 degree UWAs which I have decloaked to reduce their weight. Both of these ultra wide eyepieces are excellent performers, the 23mm being the equal ( and nearly 20 deg wider fov!), of the legendary Vixen LVW22mm, and the 31mm literally trouncing a brand new Pentax 30mm XW I bought, to the point that I kept the Axiom 31 and returned the XW30 to FLO.

All this now means that I rarely have to rebalance the scope, whether I'm observing with Binoviewers  or Cyclops formats.

That means more observing, less fiddling! And I feel I have all the eps I need - what I really want is the weather to use them all!🤦‍♂️😂

Finally, I only use a tracking EQ mount. I know I'm in a minority in doing this nowadays, but if I'm viewing an object for say 20 minutes or more, a simple line of sight alignment with Polaris will virtually eliminate the need for manual adjustments (although I can use manual slo mo's too, if I need to).

 

So, I'm unlikely to be tempted to buy a small high power zoom myself, however good it is. But it's good to know that these relatively  cheap new products are appearing on the market.

Dave

Edited December 2, 2023 by F15Rules
Typo

[John]

2 hours ago, John said:

Something that owners work out. My experience is that flaws (minor or more significant) in equipment rarely get addressed by manufacturers. Look at the weak primary springs still fitted to GSO made newtonians, for example, which have been known about for over a decade.

I've just seen this post on CN from someone who has owned the Svbony 3-8 zoom for 6 months. Maybe he has got used to the zoom action or maybe it has eased a little from use ?:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/864943-svbony-sv215-3-8-zoom-experience-and-thoughts/?p=13100701

[JeremyS]

6 minutes ago, John said:

I've just seen this post on CN from someone who has owned the Svbony 3-8 zoom for 6 months. Maybe he has got used to the zoom action or maybe it has eased a little from use ?:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/864943-svbony-sv215-3-8-zoom-experience-and-thoughts/?p=13100701

Interesting, John. Maybe I’ll spend an evening when there’s something good on tv sitting down and constantly zooming it to see if it loosens up.

They also reported needing to lock the EP tightly in the focuser. I found that easier said than done with the Tak diagonal as the side of the EP is quite tapered.

I see they had the loose cap problem. Though the 1.25-inch cap on mine was fine.

[John]

13 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Interesting, John. Maybe I’ll spend an evening when there’s something good on tv sitting down and constantly zooming it to see if it loosens up.

They also reported needing to lock the EP tightly in the focuser. I found that easier said than done with the Tak diagonal as the side of the EP is quite tapered.

I see they had the loose cap problem. Though the 1.25-inch cap on mine was fine.

I have been remembering to give the eyepiece clamp a little extra tension. I use one of these Baader 1.25 inch - T2 click locks on my Tak 100 which seem to handle any sort of undercut because the grip strips are longitudinal gripping down the length of the eyepiece barrel.

[Zermelo]

33 minutes ago, John said:

I've just seen this post on CN from someone who has owned the Svbony 3-8 zoom for 6 months. Maybe he has got used to the zoom action or maybe it has eased a little from use ?:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/864943-svbony-sv215-3-8-zoom-experience-and-thoughts/?p=13100701

When I did my review, the only other zoom I had to compare it with was an OVL Hyperflex 7.2-21.5mm, and the Svbony action was noticeably easier than the OVL.

I did note that the final 4mm-3mm adjustment was less smooth, probably because that change involves the most movement of the eye lens on the stalk. And I, like the CN reviewer, have gotten used to tightening the focuser screw a little more than I would for a fixed EP (but not more than for the OVL). My subsequent acquisition of a Clicklock took care of that.

More recently, I bought a Svbony 9-27mm, and the action on that is easier than on either of the other zooms. I think I've had the 3-8mm long enough now that it's not going to change, and I do get the feeling that the resistance is caused by the mechanics (velocity ratio?) inherent in the design, rather than friction or thick lubrication.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Zermelo

[Jim L]

3 hours ago, John said:

Something that owners work out. My experience is that flaws (minor or more significant) in equipment rarely get addressed by manufacturers. Look at the weak primary springs still fitted to GSO made newtonians, for example, which have been known about for over a decade.

And eyepiece barrel undercuts!

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, F15Rules said:

the 31mm literally trouncing a brand new Pentax 30mm XW I bought, to the point that I kept the Axiom 31 and returned the XW30 to FLO.

I have the original ES-82 30mm decloaked, and the APM UFF 30mm is sharper across the field, especially toward the edges.  The ES-82 splits red from blue, giving two images of planets in the last 15% as they drift across the field of view.  Point is, give the APM UFF 30mm a try if you were looking to improve the image quality over the Axiom 31mm at the expense of a bit of field of view.  It's much lighter and more compact as well.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Louis D

[F15Rules]

10 hours ago, Louis D said:

Point is, give the APM UFF 30mm a try if you were looking to improve the image quality over the Axiom 31mm at the expense of a bit of field of view.  It's much lighter and more compact as well.

Actually, I'm not looking to "improve the image quality over the Axiom 31mm". The Axiom 31 in my F8.1 scope is sharp across 95% of it's  84 degree field. That's at least 80 degrees of sharpness. Why would I want to swap an 80 degree wide sharp field for a 70 degree wide (assuming it IS 100% sharp across its field) for 10 degrees less of sharp field? And at a cost over here of about £230 shipped, versus half that I paid for my little used Axiom 31mm.

My Tak's focuser is a large 2.7" unit fully capable of holding the Axioms' weight and running smoothly, and with my (preferred) high quality driven eq mount,  I have no problems keeping my objects in the centre of the field of view, meaning that any minor edge of field issues are irrelevant to my observing style👍.

So I have no plans to disrupt a setup I've tested extensively and which works well for me.

Thanks 😊 

Dave

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by F15Rules

[Louis D]

In head to head comparisons with the 30mm APM UFF, 27mm Panoptic, and 35mm Baader Scopos Extreme at f/6 and faster, I found the ES-82 30mm to have slightly bloated stars across the entire field of view at best focus.  Enough so that I found it annoying.  If the bloat were confined to the field outside the TFOV of these other eyepieces, I'd be totally good with that, but it's there even in the central region.  I suppose if I had no frame of reference from never having tried those other eyepieces, I might not have ever noticed the central bloat.  I was in this situation for years before getting a coma corrector.  Once I knew what the field could look like with a CC, I could never go back to not having a CC in my Newts.

Why pay big bucks for an APO to have pinpoint stars only for those same stars to be bloated by your eyepiece?  That's why I have other eyepieces in this range, because no one eyepiece does it all (ultrawide field and pinpoint stars center to edge) in my experience at f/6 and faster.  Due to its prohibitive price, I haven't yet tried a Nagler T5 31mm to see if it manages to have pinpoint stars center to edge like the UFF, Panoptic, and BSE.

[Mr Spock]

I'm so impressed with the sharpness of the 30mm UFF I'm going to be using it with a x4 Powermate for x203 in the 12" 

[John]

15 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Why pay big bucks for an APO to have pinpoint stars only for those same stars to be bloated by your eyepiece?  That's why I have other eyepieces in this range, because no one eyepiece does it all (ultrawide field and pinpoint stars center to edge) in my experience at f/6 and faster.  Due to its prohibitive price, I haven't yet tried a Nagler T5 31mm to see if it manages to have pinpoint stars center to edge like the UFF, Panoptic, and BSE.

I think @F15Rules / Dave said that he was happy with his current eyepieces.

Why try and persuade him otherwise ?

Anyway, this thread is about a report on an eyepiece at the other end of the scale - the Svbony 3-8 zoom 🙂

 

[Naughty Neal]

Mine is  on a slow boat from China.

[melsmore]

I think (hope) that a Christmas Elf will be preparing my one for despatch shortly. Has anyone tried two of these BVed yet?

Edited December 3, 2023 by melsmore

[F15Rules]

37 minutes ago, melsmore said:

I think (hope) that a Christmas Elf will be preparing my one for despatch shortly. Has anyone tried two of these BVed yet?

Took the words right out of my mouth! That would be a very interesting comparison..

I have found that when using binoviewers (and binoculars), my "good" eye seems to somehow partly compensate for my "poorer" eye, so that the two eyes view is always better, not worse, than my one eyed view. 

Add to that the fact that viewing with two eyes is more natural than single eyed viewing (which IMHO is a learned behaviour, not a natural one), then it would be great to have available for a reasonable price a pair of good high power zooms for Lunar, Planetary and Double Star observing.

A pair of Nagler Zooms would be a significant investment for most: a pair of the Svbony zooms would equate to one decent single eyepiece..

Dave

[Telescope40]

14 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

Took the words right out of my mouth! That would be a very interesting comparison..

I have found that when using binoviewers (and binoculars), my "good" eye seems to somehow partly compensate for my "poorer" eye, so that the two eyes view is always better, not worse, than my one eyed view. 

Add to that the fact that viewing with two eyes is more natural than single eyed viewing (which IMHO is a learned behaviour, not a natural one), then it would be great to have available for a reasonable price a pair of good high power zooms for Lunar, Planetary and Double Star observing.

A pair of Nagler Zooms would be a significant investment for most: a pair of the Svbony zooms would equate to one decent single eyepiece..

Dave

Ta - Daa !!  Arrived yesterday with the return of the clouds. 
Looking to try in my Maxbright BV’s and Tak FS128. No GPC. Thought was worth a try. If not workout, I can pass one forward.   John  

John 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Telescope40
spelling

[F15Rules]

Great timing, John!

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this pairing.

A great feature with the Maxbright IIs is their individual fine focus capability. I find this very helpful now that my eyes are not both the same these days.. I can get the sharpest focus my eyes can deliver with this facility, and maximum viewing comfort.

I find the same is true with my Vixen Japan 7x50 Independent Focus binoculars, which I often tripod mount due to their weight. Superb bins though!👍

Dave

[Telescope40]

Just now, F15Rules said:

Great timing, John!

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this pairing.

A great feature with the Maxbright IIs is their individual fine focus capability. I find this very helpful now that my eyes are not both the same these days.. I can get the sharpest focus my eyes can deliver with this facility, and maximum viewing comfort.

I find the same is true with my Vixen Japan 7x50 Independent Focus binoculars, which I often tripod mount due to their weight. Superb bins though!👍

Dave

Hey Dave. Trust you are all good fella ??  Yes. The focus option on the Maxbrights are a complete winner aren't they. I'm hopeful the SV zooms will work nicely. I've really no idea what sort of magnification they will provide if used without any GPC. You may have done the math - I have not !!  The eyepiece pairs I have   ( 20mm and 15 mm ) are used in a way that give the best view to me rather than actual size. Detail soon drops away as everyone knows. I have got a 1.7x GPC that I do use as well but I'm sure that will be a crazy mag level through the FS 128 with these zooms in place. 

I had to join the Black Friday SVBony zoom train, as too good an offer as I've seen for quite a while. Good reports too on here as well. Be funny to know how many units they have shifted just to SGL members over the last 10 days or so. 🤣

I will update once I get outside under a clear sky. My comments will be rather short and sweet. I do not consider myself any sort of expert when it comes to reviews and alike. Much rather read a few posts on here from chaps who know their mustard.

As noted by a few on here. The zooms seem to be a well made item for sure. The FL adjustment seem solid and will hopefully work in tandem once in the BV's. The diopter adjustment on the Maxbrights will correct for any slight misalignment. 

ATB   John 

[Roy Challen]

1 hour ago, Naughty Neal said:

Mine is  on a slow boat from China.

It'll be on a fast boat if you got it from ali express. Mine only took a week.