The game changer

[SwiMatt]

Yesterday was a bit windy but finally the weather allowed for a great session. A few sparce clouds came in and out, but I got 2 good hours of observation in, between 8.20pm and 10.20pm.

It was the first time observing with a red dot finder, and additionally the first time using a proper atlas for orientation (Pocket Sky Atlas). I had a long list of objects I wanted to look for mostly DSOs and double stars as reserve. But besides Albireo, the DSOs were more than enough to fill my evening!

I started by tracking down something I thought would be easy: M103, in Cassiopeia. It was indeed easy, about 1 degree away from Delta Cassiopeiae, and I really enjoyed looking at it. Being quite small and bright (6.0', 7.4 mag), it gave more and more detail with higher magnitudes. I could distinguish 4 or 5 distinct stars, giving the cluster the shape of an arrow head. It confirms to me how much I enjoy looking at open clusters, compared to other DSOs objects and I will be less scared to put them in my observing lists from now on.

The next object I observed was M13 - unmistakable but not at all that glorious from my Bortle 7-8 skies. But it was the first time that I could put some magnification on it, arriving to 200x and still being able to barely focus the stars around it, and having the cluster filling my eyepiece. I moved my attention to search for M27, and found it after 5-10 minutes of panning at the imaginary corner that forms a rectangle with the stars of Cygnus. It would have been terribly hard without the atlas, but there I had it, my first observation of the dumbbell nebula. It was probably the ghost of the object I heard described on SGL and other outlets, but there I had it in the telescope, and I couldn't complain. I suspect that most objects I saw so far are but a faint version of what they really could be in skies even only slightly darker.

Some clouds on that side of the sky led me to focus my attention on Pegasus, a side of the sky that I tend to ignore for many reasons (mostly, it was always covered in my observation spots, either by trees or clouds). I found M15 and was very surprised by how definite it was - especially after M13. While M13 is definitely larger, the center of M15 was brighter and showed more to the eye. There too, I pushed magnification finding 100x a very comfortable view. It was interesting to compare with the Hercules cluster and I plan to spend more time between the two in the future.

I also spent some time on M31, blaming light pollution for the poor spectacle. One would never believe that, when at it's magnificence, it wouldn't fit in the eyepiece: but Andromeda too is the sickly ghost of itself in these city skies.

Towards the end I saw the clouds closing in. I gave a quick look to Jupiter, which was very hazy and not showing great detail, and then looked at Saturn which was incredibly sharp. I tried to take my time on it, but the clouds were faster, and I decided to get back home.

Thanks to the RDF I could find so many objects that were elusive to me before. It helped me immensely to know with certainty that I was in the right part of the sky - which in my old finder could only be achieved by identifying the flipped star field. For example, when I focused my attention on the Dipper, neither M81/82 nor M51 became apparent to me, but I knew I was around the right place. I saw some fuzziness where the Bode's galaxy is supposed to be, but nothing conclusive. But being confident I was in the right place made the process less frustrating - even with a miss.

Now I can't wait to get out again, and especially I can't wait to observe the winter constellations!

[Nik271]

You've done very well for a first DSO session! A lot of these objects  look glorious in dark skies and just a grey smudge in city skies. Though the gobular clusters respond well to magnification.

I also use RDF for rough pointing. Often I know the area well enough to find my way from there using a widefiled EP in thr Skymax, which gives barely 1 degree view of the sky.

Another solution is to use a RACI 9 x 50 finder. Even in city skies this will show you the stars up to 7-th magnitude in a 5 degree circle in the correct orientation.

When exploring an unfamiliar area of the sky, I first use the RDF to point roughly in the direction, then I swap the RDF with the RACI and star hop using it with a star map. This is slower bit the success rate is higher.

Be careful with M51, it  is very hard or near impossible to see in heavy light pollution. M81 and M82 should be possible.

[SwiMatt]

37 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

You've done very well for a first DSO session! A lot of these objects  look glorious in dark skies and just a grey smudge in city skies. Though the gobular clusters respond well to magnification.

I also use RDF for rough pointing. Often I know the area well enough to find my way from there using a widefiled EP in thr Skymax, which gives barely 1 degree view of the sky.

Another solution is to use a RACI 9 x 50 finder. Even in city skies this will show you the stars up to 7-th magnitude in a 5 degree circle in the correct orientation.

When exploring an unfamiliar area of the sky, I first use the RDF to point roughly in the direction, then I swap the RDF with the RACI and star hop using it with a star map. This is slower bit the success rate is higher.

That's a great suggestion with the RACI finder! I had not considered to have it along with the RDF. I found the RDF rough indeed, but it also happened with M13 to just fall on it perfectly centered because of how familiar I am with that bit of the sky (spent lots of time on it with my binoculars). However, the RACI finder will have to compete with other upgrades on my limited money - such as a new eyepiece (either a 8-9 mm or a >32mm)

Quote

Be careful with M51, it  is very hard or near impossible to see in heavy light pollution. M81 and M82 should be possible.

I knew M51 would be very tough, even more considering how low in the sky it is now (and there is a lot of glow low on the horizon). I like to have 1-2 objects every session that are difficult (or borderline impossible), I just don't waste too much time on them. But M81/82 are starting to get at me, since every source I found (and you confirm it) suggest that it should be feasible

[RobertI]

Great report and nice description of the objects you saw. Somehow Saturn always looks so sharp, not sure why. Nik’s  suggestion of a RACI finder is a good one. I don’t know why a manufacturer has not created a 2x finder or red dot finder for light polluted skies where not many stars are visible, I think it would be a winner.  

[josefk]

Sounds like a lot of fun. Navigating around like that is like a treasure hunt!

The dumbbell is one of my favourites and its worth checking frequently to really enjoy it on the clearest darkest nights. Sometimes its just a potato shaped smudge but sometimes it really lives up to one of its other names (the apple core). UHC or O-III can help for contrast but they're not "mission critical" to a good view.

 

[SwiMatt]

21 minutes ago, RobertI said:

Great report and nice description of the objects you saw. Somehow Saturn always looks so sharp, not sure why. Nik’s  suggestion of a RACI finder is a good one. I don’t know why a manufacturer has not created a 2x finder or red dot finder for light polluted skies where not many stars are visible, I think it would be a winner.  

Saturn is so incredible, even when the transparency isn't all that amazing... I was surprised to see it so crisp after all the haze around Jupiter!

20 minutes ago, josefk said:

Sounds like a lot of fun. Navigating around like that is like a treasure hunt!

The dumbbell is one of my favourites and its worth checking frequently to really enjoy it on the clearest darkest nights. Sometimes its just a potato shaped smudge but sometimes it really lives up to one of its other names (the apple core). UHC or O-III can help for contrast but they're not "mission critical" to a good view.

 

Yesterday it did show SOME of its shape, but mostly I suspect because I knew what to look for. It was a very fuzzy smudge. I will keep looking at it, and investing on a UHC/O-III filter (or a light pollution filter) is something I am considering too. Christmas is coming up...

Edited October 13, 2023 by SwiMatt

[badhex]

Great report, and some excellent targets there! Clusters, both open and globular, are some of my favourite objects to observe. I've also resolved (hah!) to get more PNs under my belt as they are also fascinating. As previously mentioned, Oiii and UHC filters will definitely help there, but darker skies will help more if you get the opportunity. 

Unpopular opinion, perhaps, but I have always found M31 to be quite underwhelming - however, I have always lived in cities. A few years ago I was on a tiny, dark island, and saw M31 naked eye which truly is a sight to behold!

[SwiMatt]

37 minutes ago, badhex said:

Unpopular opinion, perhaps, but I have always found M31 to be quite underwhelming - however, I have always lived in cities. A few years ago I was on a tiny, dark island, and saw M31 naked eye which truly is a sight to behold!

I don't think it's unpopular - or, to the very least, I agree with you. I saw M31 twice from here, and both times it was less interesting than other objects. I saw M31 first in Bortle 4 with binoculars, and it was quite an exciting view. As you say, when you spot it by the naked eye it must be quite amazing!

I am starting to comprehend how much light pollution is a barrier to observation much more than aperture is - you can see wonderful stuff with 4-5 inches under dark skies, but the largest telescope will give you only fuzzy views in Bortle 9. It's sad.

[woldsman]

+1 for a RACI. M31 & Jupiter both reward patience. You see more detail on M31 if you keep looking while moments of clarity on Jupiter are superb. Make the most of the mild conditions before the biter cold observing sessions kick in!
 

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Great report of a lovely session. I have never used a red-dot finder, I prefer using a RACI (either an 8x50 or a big 14x70 DIY job).

[SwiMatt]

17 minutes ago, woldsman said:

+1 for a RACI. M31 & Jupiter both reward patience. You see more detail on M31 if you keep looking while moments of clarity on Jupiter are superb. Make the most of the mild conditions before the biter cold observing sessions kick in!
 

I'm doing my best, the clouds aren't helping

2 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Great report of a lovely session. I have never used a red-dot finder, I prefer using a RACI (either an 8x50 or a big 14x70 DIY job).

Thanks! Considered how cheap the RDF is compared to a good RACI, I went with the former, but I briefly considered the latter.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

2 minutes ago, SwiMatt said:

Thanks! Considered how cheap the RDF is compared to a good RACI, I went with the former, but I briefly considered the latter.

My 50mm was just 59 pounds, so hardly breaks the bank.

[SwiMatt]

23 minutes ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

My 50mm was just 59 pounds, so hardly breaks the bank.

It depends on the bank! but the RDF was less than half that, meaning that I get to buy an additional filter or book with the same money. I'm at that initial stage when I invest little by little...

[Mr Spock]

What I use depends on the scope. For my refractors I use a Baader RDF then switch to a low power eyepiece. So in the 4" my 42mm gives me 3.7° and the 30mm 2.84°. No need for any other finder though I do use a 6x30 to frame brighter stars.

For the 12" I have both a Telrad and a 9x50 RACI. Even the 42mm gives me only 1.8° so not much use for low power star hopping.