How things have changed.

[Nigella Bryant]

I was taken by an image of Mars taken with the 60-inch (1.5-meter) reflecting telescope at the Mt. Wilson Observatory used by Hale to photograph Mars in the fall of 1909. 

Fast forward to 2022/3 with my 11inch C11 and Zwo Asi 462MC. Just crazy technology and what's feasible today in amateur astronomers today. 

[andrew s]

Yes instrumentation has taken astronomy to a whole new level.  While still too expensive for most of us the latest sCMOS cameras have close to 100% quantum efficiency and ridiculous good noise performance. 

Long gone are the days of alchemy to enhance photographic film.

Great image by the way.

Regards Andrew 

[Nigella Bryant]

3 minutes ago, andrew s said:

Yes instrumentation has taken astronomy to a whole new level.  While still too expensive for most of us the latest sCMOS cameras have close to 100% quantum efficiency and ridiculous good noise performance. 

Long gone are the days of alchemy to enhance photographic film.

Great image by the way.

Regards Andrew 

And you can see almost straight away if it's a decent imaging session. 

[Ratlet]

I wonder if anyone detonated their imaging rig while hypersensitizing the film with hydrogen.

[windjammer]

Ah, but Hale's pic clearly has canals !

[Sunshine]

That depends on who is behind the telescope, with my imaging knowledge if you gave me your C11 and your laptop for a night I would utilize my button mashing skills and end up with an image just like the first one! but I'd still be pumped enough to post it here 🤣 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Sunshine

[RobertI]

 Nice comparison Nigella. I wonder what amateurs will be capable of in another 100 years? Will the concept of telescopes and cameras seem rather quaint!

[teoria_del_big_bang]

I am pretty new to this game but I would think this hobby really opened up to most hobbyists with the introduction of digital photography.
Personally, I found some fair challenges taking imaging when I first started, around 2018, and even though going back to my early 20's (some 40 years ago) having done some colour photography and developing my own images I think the challenge of imaging with non digital equipment would have been too much of a challenge for myself and would not have done so.

I am guessing it wasnt until towards the 80's digital cameras were widely used in AP and so I take my hat off even to those hobbyists that with some great optical equipment still had so struggle with real photographic film.

Steve 

[Nigella Bryant]

9 hours ago, RobertI said:

 Nice comparison Nigella. I wonder what amateurs will be capable of in another 100 years? Will the concept of telescopes and cameras seem rather quaint!

My thoughts exactly. 

[ollypenrice]

This is an interesting topic for all sorts of reasons. I think you could take your point still further by noting that, until quite recently, the best images of Jupiter ever taken from the earth were taken by an amateur with a C14. Take a bow, Damian Peach. Mr Peach now has access to larger telescopes but the point remains. This is remarkable.

In the mid 1990s, when I discovered astronomy, I was in awe of the deep sky images made by David Malin using a large professional reflector. With the exception, perhaps, of certain very small targets requiring large-scope resolution, I and thousands of other amateurs can now take better ones using three inch refractors.

Surely it's the existence of this astonishing technology which has triggered the present level of participation in astrophotography. People do it because they can.  Far fewer people wanted to spend 40 minutes glued to a manual guidescope after hypersensitizing their roll of Tech Pan in order to end up with a monochromatic smudge.

Cycling can only become popular once someone has invented the bicycle. Ditto astrophotography.

Olly

[GalaxyGael]

20 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

This is an interesting topic for all sorts of reasons. I think you could take your point still further by noting that, until quite recently, the best images of Jupiter ever taken from the earth were taken by an amateur with a C14. Take a bow, Damian Peach. Mr Peach now has access to larger telescopes but the point remains. This is remarkable.

In the mid 1990s, when I discovered astronomy, I was in awe of the deep sky images made by David Malin using a large professional reflector. With the exception, perhaps, of certain very small targets requiring large-scope resolution, I and thousands of other amateurs can now take better ones using three inch refractors.

Surely it's the existence of this astonishing technology which has triggered the present level of participation in astrophotography. People do it because they can.  Far fewer people wanted to spend 40 minutes glued to a manual guidescope after hypersensitizing their roll of Tech Pan in order to end up with a monochromatic smudge.

Cycling can only become popular once someone has invented the bicycle. Ditto astrophotography.

Olly

True, it has entered the pug'n'play era with automation and the advancements in CMOS are astounding. Less need for more complicated new optical designs for scopes to a certain extent. Add to that, new algorithms for processing that are becoming single click and will later be (my future prediction) integrated into real-time EAA.

I still use slit CCDs with 28 um pixel cooled to -60C in the lab because it was bought 10 years ago, but is astonishingly linear and the noise, while high, is very precise and consistent when calibrating spectral data. For imaging the new backlit, high QE sensors (even OSC) have changed the game. I still love a CCD, havent used one in anger for years since I like my autofocus to finish on the same night as I image But I like them emotionally as they are the closest digital imaging tech to the Bell Labs era of discovery with physical twist knobs rather than keyboards.....I digress

New CMOS being developed at the moment will remain zero electroluminscence that some older CMOS (like the amp glow when reading CCDs), a little higher QE, deeper wells, reduced power requirements for cooling from transistor design and the possibility for photon counting. CMOS have a lot of future capabilities for deep IR and hyperspectral imaging beyond insgle line scans, doubt they will make headway from ground based astroimagers. But the combination of new imaging capabilities, open source full capability capture and processing software, complete integrated travel rigs that are sublime as imaging setups have (thankfully for folks like me) removed the need to be out there for hours in the night. 10 minutes setup, press play and go back inside and that includes lifting the whole rig out and plugging in. Amazing

[Nigella Bryant]

I think technology is moving so fast that in three years what was possible by the few will be possible by the many and bang for buck cheaper in comparison to what equipment was forty year's ago. I'm looking forward to the next ten years (well, excluding any crisis). 

[Mick J]

Interesting post from Darryl Milika on cloudynights, always great pictures & info :  https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/858274-more-asi462mm-images-low-elevation-poor-seeing-but-nice-mars/

nice to see still at it 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Nigella Bryant said:

I was taken by an image of Mars taken with the 60-inch (1.5-meter) reflecting telescope at the Mt. Wilson Observatory used by Hale to photograph Mars in the fall of 1909. 

Fast forward to 2022/3 with my 11inch C11 and Zwo Asi 462MC. Just crazy technology and what's feasible today in amateur astronomers today. 

Isnt that amazing

[Nigella Bryant]

12 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

Isnt that amazing

It certainly is Mike, makes you think what next. 

[Guest]

I remember my first telescope..... If you can call it that.  I believe it was a Tasco and what a piece of junk it was.  You could see the moon.....sort of.  I dont remember what happened to it but it was no great loss. Now I have my 10 inch and 16 inch dobs.  Either of which is infinitely better then anything made just a few decades ago and beyond anything Newton could have dreamed off. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Nigella Bryant said:

It certainly is Mike, makes you think what next. 

Whats next....for some reason I think you will see some sort of blending of technology happening.  Take the best of and mix them together.  

[cajen2]

I can see computerised scopes such as the Stellina improving as newer / more efficient auto- processing software is developed and also getting cheaper.

[Nigella Bryant]

What about a crowd funded amateur space telescope? 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Nigella Bryant said:

What about a crowd funded amateur space telescope? 

That will require quite the crowd to fund.  A single launch from SpaceX is 67 million dollars according to Google 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Mike Q

[Nigella Bryant]

6 hours ago, Mike Q said:

That will require quite the crowd to fund.  A single launch from SpaceX is 67 million dollars according to Google 

I know at present but in the future like all things price should come down in comparison to salary. What is for government's, rich and famous now maybe will be like travelling abroad now for ordinary people. Once going abroad was just for the rich, etc now most people can go and do once in a life time thing's. It is possible one day. 

Perhaps one day someone will read this and say yep, they were right, lol. An interesting thought, lol. 

[saac]

On 11/01/2023 at 00:53, Nigella Bryant said:

What about a crowd funded amateur space telescope? 

Aww man that would be a remote imaging rig for sure - count me in. Do you think FLO would deliver upgrades  

Jim 

[Ratlet]

1 minute ago, saac said:

Aww man that would be a remote imaging rig for sure - count me in. Do you think FLO would deliver upgrades  

Jim 

Hopefully not.  Knowing our luck, they'd deliver clouds along with the upgrades!

[saac]

On 11/01/2023 at 08:06, Nigella Bryant said:

I know at present but in the future like all things price should come down in comparison to salary. What is for government's, rich and famous now maybe will be like travelling abroad now for ordinary people. Once going abroad was just for the rich, etc now most people can go and do once in a life time thing's. It is possible one day. 

Perhaps one day someone will read this and say yep, they were right, lol. An interesting thought, lol. 

You know in all seriousness the idea is not that far fetched. Look at current satellite technology and the proliferation of so called "shoe box" satellites.  It would not be too far fetched to conceive of one of these carrying a few suitably designed and configured imaging cameras.  Satellite technology that used to be the preserve of governments (military, scientific) are already within easy reach of commercial organisations now and it is only going to increase as launch costs come down. 

Jim 

[Marvin Jenkins]

On 10/01/2023 at 12:06, Nigella Bryant said:

I think technology is moving so fast that in three years what was possible by the few will be possible by the many and bang for buck cheaper in comparison to what equipment was forty year's ago. I'm looking forward to the next ten years (well, excluding any crisis). 

I am super happy with that as I miss out on buying any cameras due to being skint. I can just ride out the tech wave and save up for three years when the old tech is being chucked out for fiver.

Just a thought. All those SBIG ccds that cost a house are going to be worthless soon.