Camera thoughts, mono or colour?

[heller792]

Hi all,

My name is Dave, I wanted to start imaging a few years ago but my work always got in the way, I now have some free time to enjoy the hobby. I know this question will of been asked before but I would appreciate some advice please, colour on mono basically? I am looking at the ZWO ASI183 Pro but not sure which one to go for. If I buy mono then it may be a while before I can buy the filters and filter wheel however if i buy colour then I'm basically set and ready to go but will this leave me wanting to change to a mono sooner rather than later?

 

The kit I've managed to build up so far is as below,

Redcat 51

Canon Mk 5d Mk iii

ZWO ASI120mm guide camera

ZWO Mini Scope

Asiair plus

Dew heater 

ZWO EAF

 

Appreciate any help and thanks in advance,

Dave

 

[scotty38]

I'll throw a spanner in the works and suggest you look at the 533 instead although that still leaves you deciding OSC versus colour but glad I could help.

[Rallemikken]

3 hours ago, heller792 said:

colour on mono basically?

This Redcat/Canon combo is a classic widefield setup, that don't even require a tracker, used in the right way. More than 8 degrees wide, most pictures of this kind I've seen has been done with color, and very often high-end DSLR's, like yours.

First thing to consider is where you live. England or the Nevada desert? With a color camera you always have a complete (but sometimes limited) dataset if you must abort because of clouds. And if only one in ten nights have clear skies, you don't want to spend that time fiddling with all kinds of fancy tech that don't work as intended.

I live in central Norway, not much clear skies due to the Golf stream. I've shot with DSLR's for two years, never considered mono. A dedicated color AP-camera perhaps, but never mono.

[newbie alert]

Higher light pollution would make me choose mono over colour

Mono isn't fancy tech..

When I first started I went directly mono and never had any reason to go colour.. still don't..

[Budgie1]

I have both Mono & OSC and use both, the mono I've only had a couple of months so I'm still getting used to it. From what I've done to date, the mono doesn't really use up that much more time when imaging, even though you need to capture with the different filters (SHO or LRGB), because each filter needs less integration time as it's using the whole sensor.

You've sort of limited yourself to a ZWO camera if you want use the ASIAir, if you didn't have this then I would have recommended looking at the older CCD cameras as these quite cheap at the moment, but still very good quality. The setup I've got is an Atik 428EX mono camera, Atik EFW2 filter wheel, Baader narrow band filters and ZWO LRGB filters. I bought everything on the second hand market and it cost me less than £750! So, that may be an option to save a little money.   

[astrohike]

4 hours ago, Budgie1 said:

I bought everything on the second hand market and it cost me less than £750! So, that may be an option to save a little money.

By 'second hand market', I assume eBay? Is there a preference to second hand markets for AP equipment?

Edit: Spelling.

Edited December 25, 2022 by astrohike

[Franklin]

Astrobuynsell UK and on here, I'd try and avoid Ebay, Facebook Marketplace and their kin.

[heller792]

11 hours ago, Rallemikken said:

This Redcat/Canon combo is a classic widefield setup, that don't even require a tracker, used in the right way. More than 8 degrees wide, most pictures of this kind I've seen has been done with color, and very often high-end DSLR's, like yours.

First thing to consider is where you live. England or the Nevada desert? With a color camera you always have a complete (but sometimes limited) dataset if you must abort because of clouds. And if only one in ten nights have clear skies, you don't want to spend that time fiddling with all kinds of fancy tech that don't work as intended.

I live in central Norway, not much clear skies due to the Golf stream. I've shot with DSLR's for two years, never considered mono. A dedicated color AP-camera perhaps, but never mono.

Thank you, Manchester UK is the same, not a lot of clear nights.

[Budgie1]

3 hours ago, astrohike said:

By 'second hand market', I assume eBay? Is there a preference to second hand markets for AP equipment?

Edit: Spelling.

Sadly eBay is more like a new market these days and even the second hand items are at "New" prices or more.

I got some of the items from another member of SGL and the rest came from ENS Optical, who specialise in second hand astro & photography equipment.

[Lee_P]

I've written an article here about Mono and OSC that you might find useful.

[heller792]

9 hours ago, Lee_P said:

I've written an article here about Mono and OSC that you might find useful.

That was a great read, thanks for sharing it with me. I do fall short in the categories of clear sky's, where I am is a very cloudy area most of the year, for this reason I am leaning towards OSC

[newbie alert]

2 hours ago, heller792 said:

That was a great read, thanks for sharing it with me. I do fall short in the categories of clear sky's, where I am is a very cloudy area most of the year, for this reason I am leaning towards OSC

Lots of people do this and end up going mono in the end... Weigh up the options.. .. mono is actually faster,and has been said more than just a few times..

From that article it gives the viewpoint that the duel narrowband filters are on par with the normal narrow band filter... I don't think so .. he says he can't tell the difference.... Really... Mono has and always will produce cleaner images because every pixel is assigned to the colour it's designed to.. not nearest neighbour values

[tooth_dr]

I’ve both mono and colour cameras, also have limited clear nights, but still find mono has an edge.

I’ve shot pure 3nm narrowband with OSC as well as the dual band filters eg NBZ, and whilst it is close, the mono camera is better at it (as expected).

[Lee_P]

44 minutes ago, newbie alert said:

Lots of people do this and end up going mono in the end... Weigh up the options.. .. mono is actually faster,and has been said more than just a few times..

From that article it gives the viewpoint that the duel narrowband filters are on par with the normal narrow band filter... I don't think so .. he says he can't tell the difference.... Really... Mono has and always will produce cleaner images because every pixel is assigned to the colour it's designed to.. not nearest neighbour values

I don’t say that dual narrowband is on par with normal narrowband filters. “To be clear, Mono plus filters has advantages over OSC plus dual-band in many cases, and dual-band filters aren’t effective for every telescope or every target.” And no, I generally can’t tell from a single image whether it was taken with a mono or OSC camera. There are plenty of imagers here on SGL taking really stunning images with OSC cameras.

I think that mono vs OSC debates tend to have laser focus on what will give the absolute best image quality. The answer to that is mono. But then the debate ignores a lot of important factors, including budget, complexity of set-up, and – vitally – what the imager would actually find most fun to use.

So, I don’t think there’s a single answer to “OSC or mono?” It depends on the astrophotographer in question. To simply dismiss either OSC or mono is to take a very limited viewpoint.

[Gerr]

I considered going mono put the price tag of this set-up put me off. OSC is a less complex imaging process. This you will fully appreciate after weeks of inactivity you suddenly have a clear weather window where you want to quickly aim and shoot at a target without having to remember how to do it right!!!

 

[Xsubmariner]

Hi Dave, I would always advise anyone new to AP to go OSC initially and recommend they buy used, to minimise financial loss were they to migrate to mono at a later date. While I noticed you have an ASIAir, were you content to run your system from a laptop with say Nina, the For Sale/Swap forum currently has an as new QHY268MC for a bargain price of £1200. This would give you an excellent wide field capability and the camera would be an ideal partner for any future refractor.

[heller792]

12 minutes ago, Xsubmariner said:

Hi Dave, I would always advise anyone new to AP to go OSC initially and recommend they buy used, to minimise financial loss were they to migrate to mono at a later date. While I noticed you have an ASIAir, were you content to run your system from a laptop with say Nina, the For Sale/Swap forum currently has an as new QHY268MC for a bargain price of £1200. This would give you an excellent wide field capability and the camera would be an ideal partner for any future refractor.

for ease of use I was trying to stick with compatibility with the zwo range, I will take a look in the sales forum.

[Ouroboros]

I really must try going mono someday then I can answer this question authoritatively.  I’ve been doing OSC for ten years or so, first with a DSLR and then with a dedicated ZWO OSC camera.   Nevertheless, despite having no mono experience, I don’t really consider it an “or” question. It strikes me that OSC and mono are different types of astrophotography, often achieving rather different things.   I think it’s more a matter of understanding the differences between the two and deciding what your interests are and what you want to spend your time doing.  

[ollypenrice]

I used to be wedded to mono and still would be if talking about CCD cameras. Mono is not slower, it is faster, because the luminance run captures all colours on all pixels, which an OSC cannot do. Mono also captures NB data on all pixels, which OSC cannot do.

However, CMOS OSC cameras are an awful lot more convincing than CCD OSC.  I'm currently using two 2600 OSC cameras with great enjoyment. The dual or tri-band filters have also narrowed the gap considerably, though we don't have any here as yet.

I think it's a much harder decision than it used to be, or maybe it's an easier one because the mono advantage is now much reduced and both options are great.

Olly

[Adam J]

On 25/12/2022 at 05:54, heller792 said:

Hi all,

My name is Dave, I wanted to start imaging a few years ago but my work always got in the way, I now have some free time to enjoy the hobby. I know this question will of been asked before but I would appreciate some advice please, colour on mono basically? I am looking at the ZWO ASI183 Pro but not sure which one to go for. If I buy mono then it may be a while before I can buy the filters and filter wheel however if i buy colour then I'm basically set and ready to go but will this leave me wanting to change to a mono sooner rather than later?

 

The kit I've managed to build up so far is as below,

Redcat 51

Canon Mk 5d Mk iii

ZWO ASI120mm guide camera

ZWO Mini Scope

Asiair plus

Dew heater 

ZWO EAF

 

Appreciate any help and thanks in advance,

Dave

 

Get a mono, no question in my mind about that. I am going to be controversial and say that I tend to enjoy OSC images less than equivalent Mono images even with the latest CMOS OSC offerings and duel band filters. Now that's not to say I don't enjoy osc images at all or find value in them, but if I made a list of my top 10 favourite images on astrobin all would be shot with a mono sensor. 

A OSC camera is a fantastic tool in many scenarios and makes sense on some scopes like a RASA. I would consider owning one as a second camera. But for me mono is still the king of DSO imaging by a none trivial margin. 

Adam

[Adam J]

On 26/12/2022 at 10:17, newbie alert said:

Lots of people do this and end up going mono in the end... Weigh up the options.. .. mono is actually faster,and has been said more than just a few times..

From that article it gives the viewpoint that the duel narrowband filters are on par with the normal narrow band filter... I don't think so .. he says he can't tell the difference.... Really... Mono has and always will produce cleaner images because every pixel is assigned to the colour it's designed to.. not nearest neighbour values

Yeah I can't agree that duel band are on par with mono narrow band filters either. I can certainly tell the difference. 

[bottletopburly]

If your light pollution is bad in Manchester then consider going  mono Chuck on a Ha filter capture that single band add on filter wheel and filter later on a look on astrobin will Chuck up images with this setup 

[CraigT82]

Yeah as above… if you live in the city with very light polluted skies I’d go mono with barrow band filters. You could just start off with Ha to begin with then add filter wheel and other bands as you go 

[900SL]

Off piste slightly.. why no OSC sensor that uses a Bayer matrix more suited to astro? Instead of RGGB why not a combo with less green? 

[ONIKKINEN]

Green makes sense for broadband where most of the signal is roughly neutral white so brightest in green. Also for daylight photography where sensors are designed to work best.

The AP market is probably pennies for Sony so doubt they want to design a bayer matrix with a different set of filters.