Are visual astronomers a dying breed?

[bingevader]

A dying breed!?

I hope I have a few years in me yet!

[cajen2]

3 hours ago, Mike Q said:

What you said here is absolutely true.  My wife is looking at Stellina right now.  I asked why and her response was, it's astrophotography without the work.  I can't argue with her as it is basically a plug and play deal.  Then I asked the follow up...would you quit looking through the dob?  She said and I quote...."oh hell no".  So while the digital scopes are cool and do give almost instant gratification, there is still something to be said for standing there and practicing the art of visual astronomy.

How lucky you are to have a partner who shares your interest. Mine was oblivious to all things astronomical, until one evening when I persuaded her out to view the moon and then Jupiter, with all four Galilean moons strung out......"Wow, that's amazing!" she said, "but I'm freezing." She went inside and hasn't ventured out since. She uses my stargazing as a good excuse for watching wall-to-wall soap operas. Each to his own.....😄

Edited March 22, 2022 by cajen2
Typo

[mikeDnight]

I wouldn't read too much into the fact the visual posts are down compared to imaging posts. It's easier to post an image than to write a detailed report. Also, its easier to view and study an image than it is to read though a lengthy visual report. 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Jiggy 67 said:

As for posts, no disrespect to the OP for the What did you see tonight thread but it has killed observing reports as they previously were

That was always my concern about the thread. The problem is the reports are just there as comments effectively and then get superseded by the next, so there is little opportunity to discuss each observation. 

Personally I like to see individual reports with more detail so others can comment, and each one gets more focus. I think there is probably space for both, but I can only encourage people not to stop posting individual reports even if you do post in the ‘what did you see’ thread.

In general I think the may be more activity on imaging because there seem to be a lot more problems to discuss! To post a visual report takes some courage, imagination and effort to put together as you are trying to describe what you saw and it’s not easy. I know only too well that I over use the words ‘nice’ and ‘lovely’ in my reports which tells people nothing very much!! 🤪🤪🤣🤣

[Franklin]

41 minutes ago, cajen2 said:

She uses my stargazing as a good excuse for watching wall-to-wall soap operas. Each to his own.....

Snap.

[Franklin]

People will never stop looking up at the stars, the universe is amazing.

[Davesellars]

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

I wouldn't read too much into the fact the visual posts are down compared to imaging posts. It's easier to post an image than to write a detailed report. Also, its easier to view and study an image than it is to read though a lengthy visual report. 

I would agree with this 100%.  Report writing well (not saying i'm any good at it...) takes considerable effort of which many people either not have the time or prepared to to do.  It has to be something that you enjoy doing as well as the observation part itself of astronomy.  For me, reporting writing is enjoyable and helps me reflect on the session later and helps occasionally in the future to look back at previous observations.  I would put it that most imagers post results not just for show but also for advice on how to get better which is generally not going to happen in visual astronomy.

[Geoff Barnes]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

 I know only too well that I over use the words ‘nice’ and ‘lovely’ in my reports which tells people nothing very much!! 🤪🤪🤣🤣

Au contraire Stu, it reminds us that you are indeed a nice and lovely chap! 😀 xxx

Edited March 22, 2022 by Geoff Barnes

[Kon]

38 minutes ago, Davesellars said:

I would put it that most imagers post results not just for show but also for advice on how to get better which is generally not going to happen in visual astronomy.

I have personally, and I am sure others as well,  got great feedback in some of my full reports and comments such as 'Did you also see these features on this target?' or 'Try use this filter next time' etc from more experienced observers, so it kind of makes me better next time to try glimpse those extra details. Similarly, advise on filters or exit pupil to improve seeing of the faint fuzzies.

[Kon]

@Stuand @Jiggy 67the  What did you see tonight is a good quick reference on what others are seeing but most of us who post there do not go into much details (some observers are taking their time to write longer reports there but they  are unfortunately pushed back fairly quickly; i have missed several excellent reports like that). To these observers I would encourage to start a new thread with their report. I love reading everybody's observation either at my lunch break or at night.

[cajen2]

1 hour ago, Franklin said:

People will never stop looking up at the stars, the universe is amazing.

And so, apparently, are soap operas! 😝

[cajen2]

7 minutes ago, Kon said:

@Stuand @Jiggy 67the  What did you see tonight is a good quick reference on what others are seeing but most of us who post there do not go into much details (some observers are taking their time to write longer reports there but they  are unfortunately pushed back fairly quickly; i have missed several excellent reports like that). To these observers I would encourage to start a new thread with their report. I love reading everybody's observation either at my lunch break or at night.

I agree wholeheartedly. Please, people, post observing reports. I love reading them and learn so much from them.

[cajen2]

I note that several members have commented on the advanced ages of the people visiting the Free Astronomy Show! 🤣

[Ratlet]

I'm just getting started with imaging, largely because my eyesight is god awful and because I like image processing.  But it was visual that got me going when Aberdeen Astro Society did a night for people at Stonehaven after Stargazing Live in 2012 (life got in the way between now and then).

I can still remember the guy apologising and saying the seeing was rubbish but he'd lined up Saturn.  I was blown away.  You could see where the rings were!  It was weird.  You could feel the distance through the eye piece.  Incredible.

Imaging will draw in more people because it's easier to communicate, especially online.  But there is something magical about eyeballing it.

I might be biased since I'm learning so spend a lot of time looking at other posts looking for help, but quite a lot of the imaging posts seem to be people looking for advice or having issues getting component B to speak to the guide camera and the autofocus lol.

[paulastro]

Everyone who has contributed to this thread seems to be assuming that SGL contributors are somehow typical of the larger astronomical community.

I would think there are far more astronomers out there who have never even heard about SGL,  or if they have,  never contribute to it.  There are clearly many telescope owners who will be  casual telescope users, but they are still astronomers none  the less.  It is also probably true that more casual telescope users haven't the time or the inclination to become images.

Likewise, I know some enthusiastic astronomers, mostly visual, who don't feel the need to use SGL.  And of course, many people are not exclusively visual observers or imagers but are both to some degree.

Believe it or not, SGL members are a small minority of the telescope using community.  And imagers will be a small percentage of this larger community. 

Visual astronomers are alive and kicking, no need to worry about us 🙂.

Edited March 22, 2022 by paulastro

[Pixies]

I agree with a lot of the previous comments, that AP lends itself to more copious posts. Whether it's for technical advice or just down to the image-based nature of the hobby.

I love visual for the calm and meditative nature of it. It's a form of mindfulness, if you like - especially planetary observation. I doubt that many astrophotographers would say that! Now, I'm not a luddite in any way - I have a masters degree in computer graphics and spend my working life up to my ears in tech, but AP just doesn't appeal in the same way! I  must admit, I am considering dipping my toe into AP later this year, but only in as simple a way as I can find, so that I can have something running nearby while I observe visually.

As for the 'what did you see tonight' thread, I'd like to think it's a running list of observers' experiences and an overview of what has been seen, with fuller individual reports for detail. That's  certainly how I'd approach it.  I wonder if the drop in individual reports is just down to the rubbish weather recently!

[Guest]

19 hours ago, cajen2 said:

How lucky you are to have a partner who shares your interest. Mine was oblivious to all things astronomical, until one evening when I persuaded her out to view the moon and then Jupiter, with all four Galilean moons strung out......"Wow, that's amazing!" she said, "but I'm freezing." She went inside and hasn't ventured out since. She uses my stargazing as a good excuse for watching wall-to-wall soap operas. Each to his own.....😄

My wife is a bit of a different breed.  She is the whole reason we have a telescope.  I have always wanted one, but would never spend the money on myself.  One day she said I wish I could see the planets better.  That was like getting permission as far as I was concerned.  We have added 20x80 binoculars, at her request, she is looking hard at the Stellina and the iPad to make it all work, that will be close to 5 thousand USD just for that.  I told her if she gets it....she can't say anything when I go all in on a 16 inch truss with a go-to on it.  She was good with that.  What a woman.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Guest

[cajen2]

All I can say is wow! Has she got a sister? 😄

[Franklin]

1 hour ago, Pixies said:

It's a form of mindfulness, if you like - especially planetary observation.

Very true. Planetary observation is probably the most difficult of telescopic pursuits. The key to success is patience, patience and patience for a while longer, waiting for that moment when the sky becomes still and rewards you with what you were hoping to see. Giving plenty of time to reflect on what it is you're actually looking at.

[Franklin]

1 hour ago, Pixies said:

I doubt that many astrophotographers would say that!

STRESS

[Guest]

2 hours ago, cajen2 said:

All I can say is wow! Has she got a sister? 😄

Sorry pal...no sister

[ollypenrice]

Interesting. I think the high imaging post counts are partly due to the fact that the technology is ever-evolving, sparking the need for new exchanges of ideas on how to make it behave!     The good old visual telescope has a tendency just to work...  (When did you read, 'I went out to the Dob last night and when I pushed it west it went east, and then, when I left it alone, it started spinning round on its ground board and flew off into the hedge?') 🤣

Another perspective: a dark site is even more advantageous to visual observers than imagers (who can shoot in narrowband) yet, when I opened an astronomy-centred guest house at a dark site nearly twenty years ago, it was the imagers who did most of the booking.  The overwhelming predominance of imaging bookings has never changed.

Olly

Edited March 23, 2022 by ollypenrice
Typo

[Stu]

9 hours ago, Franklin said:

Very true. Planetary observation is probably the most difficult of telescopic pursuits. The key to success is patience, patience and patience for a while longer, waiting for that moment when the sky becomes still and rewards you with what you were hoping to see. Giving plenty of time to reflect on what it is you're actually looking at.

I completely agree with this! Planetary observing, and in particular Jupiter and Mars is one of the things I find most relaxing. By relaxing I mean not necessarily physically relaxing because it can be cold and a little uncomfortable sometimes, but mentally it just forever me to switch off from everything else, control my breathing (which slows the old ticker down) and concentrate on what you can see. Very little else does that for me.

[Paz]

14 hours ago, tomato said:

Based on the attendance at the recent Practical Astronomy Show, I think both visual and imaging is rapidly becoming a senior citizen pastime, but maybe the old timers (I’m in that category) like the hands on experience and face to face contact?

This is something I wonder about. I'm in my early 50's and I'm usually a couple of decades off the average age of fellow astronomers I see at astro clubs or events (except for outreach when it's usually a broad mix of all ages).

I wonder if this is the demographic or if it is just that younger enthusiasts might not have the time to go to certain events. I know for me most of my activity is short opportunistic observing sessions, I very rarely do anything planned as it then just feels like a other job to be done (and planning observing sessions more than a few hours in advance is usually is futile due to the weather) and I almost never do meets etc as getting a day to myself isn't going to happen. But if I make it to retirement age I would be going to lots of events.

[PeterStudz]

As has been pointed out by some for me it’s time. And it’s easier to post a quick picture. Eg I have spent a good 5 hours observing in one night, then taken a smartphone picture of something I’ve seen before I pack up, spending around 30 mins taking the images. Then posted one of those images on here. 

Sadly the observing report gets left. In fact I don’t think I’ve written one. I also find it difficult to write something like this but must give it a go. In fact I have a backlog of things I want to post/discuss.