Zwo 183mm pro cooled camera disconnecting disconnects from asiair pro while imaging

[Elp]

I've tried searching for this issue, it was suggested to get a better usb 3 cable which I've done but the issue persists. It's annoying because if I can't sit there monitoring it it could take minutes or hours before the camera disconnects (or turns off) from the asiair hence stopping the plan, it's usually minutes. The stupid thing is all I have to do is switch it back on in the app and reselect the camera (no physical intervention).

Config:

Asiair pro powered via mains, all four usbs used (usb3 main cam 183mm pro, usb3 guidecam, usb2 eqdir cable, usb2 WiFi extender), 12v out to azgti, 12v out to 183mm pro cooling. Cooling is set to -10 Deg C.

Any suggestions?

Edited March 20, 2022 by Elp

[Elp]

Update: I tried an external 12v to power the 183mm cooling, lasted longer without disconnecting but it still did twice over an 8 hour session, so I've still got the problem. I may be a bit paranoid here but as the WiFi connection is poor even with an extender I've found it coincidental I find it tends to disconnect after I've lost WiFi connection to the asiair app for a while and try to re-establish connection, and see the main camera is off and the plan has stopped. The WiFi extender also lost power once. Really need to resolve this as I can't trust to leave it running untended.

[Adam J]

9 minutes ago, Elp said:

Update: I tried an external 12v to power the 183mm cooling, lasted longer without disconnecting but it still did twice over an 8 hour session, so I've still got the problem. I may be a bit paranoid here but as the WiFi connection is poor even with an extender I've found it coincidental I find it tends to disconnect after I've lost WiFi connection to the asiair app for a while and try to re-establish connection, and see the main camera is off and the plan has stopped. The WiFi extender also lost power once. Really need to resolve this as I can't trust to leave it running untended.

It wont be the power supply the 12 volts only powers the cooler, the camera itself is powered from the USB 5Volts. If its disconnecting it really is almost certainly a USB cable quality issue resulting in insufficient voltage at the camera. The WIFI on the ASI Air is famous for being a bit rubbish. Could it be that power is being interrupted to the ASI AIR itself? 

Adam

Edited March 23, 2022 by Adam J

[scotty38]

I've seen issues with USB3/USB2 shenanigans so as well as testing cables I'd be tempted to try the camera in a USB2 port, just for giggles but you never know.

[Elp]

17 minutes ago, Adam J said:

It wont be the power supply the 12 volts only powers the cooler, the camera itself is powered from the USB 5Volts. If its disconnecting it really is almost certainly a USB cable quality issue resulting in insufficient voltage at the camera. The WIFI on the ASI Air is famous for being a bit rubbish. Could it be that power is being interrupted to the ASI AIR itself? 

Adam

Was thinking it's maybe more a load draw issue on the asiair itself hence why I tried the external cooling 12v connection to see if it helped, it was better but still occurred. I'm even using a shielded 0.5m usb cable to eliminate length of and quality of cable.

[Elp]

14 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

I've seen issues with USB3/USB2 shenanigans so as well as testing cables I'd be tempted to try the camera in a USB2 port, just for giggles but you never know.

Maybe worth a shot but as it's a high resolution camera wouldn't want to rely on usb2 long term. Guess subs won't be updating quickly anyway so maybe okay.

[scotty38]

Agreed, sort of, but unless you're doing planetary type stuff I can't imagine the download speed being too much of an issue. Anyway I'm suggesting it just as fault finding even though I don't think it'd cause you any bother for long exposures anyway.

[Varavall]

Hi

Is whatever device you are using to connect to the wifi on the asiair always awake or is it set to go to sleep when not being used, including turning the screen off after so long? Maybe it is doing something else such as auto updating/backing up in the background? Those are a couple of issues that caused my set up to have connection problems, albeit not with an asiair. 

[Elp]

I'm using my mobile so it's not always on. When I'm outside I'm always locking and unlocking it and no issues, problem tends to occur when I go inside and I usually keep the phone screen on as I want to keep an eye on what it's doing, but then the WiFi signal is poor. What setup do you have out of interest?

[knobby]

Might be worth a tiny squeeze of the usb connection, my laptop used to have issues with connections (possibly contracting when getting cold) - squeezed ever so carefully with pliers and now all good.

[Varavall]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

I'm using my mobile so it's not always on. When I'm outside I'm always locking and unlocking it and no issues, problem tends to occur when I go inside and I usually keep the phone screen on as I want to keep an eye on what it's doing, but then the WiFi signal is poor. What setup do you have out of interest?

For a start I don't use wifi as my walls are 2ft thick. I run a 10m StarTech active USB3 cable (expensive) to my ASI1600MM, to which are EAF and EFW connected via the USB hub, and a 10m powered USB2 cable to a hub to connect the less demanding bits of kit. All run by N.I.N.A on a Windows 10 laptop.

I notice you are using a wireless extender; as that is connected to 2 networks simultaneously it will halve the bandwidth to your mobile.  Perhaps run a cable from the asiair to a computer and see if the problem persists.

[Elp]

Think I'll have to try the ethernet cable method next, updated the asiair to v1.9 upon zwos advice, issue is worse. Tried my 224mc as the main camera and it disconnected many times. The WiFi extender also rebooted a few times. Caused my plan to fail as the loss of WiFi connection to the app is what I believe is causing the main camera to turn off, why it should do this I don't know as the hardware should continue to run regardless. Gave up for the night.

[Varavall]

8 hours ago, Elp said:

Think I'll have to try the ethernet cable method next, updated the asiair to v1.9 upon zwos advice, issue is worse. Tried my 224mc as the main camera and it disconnected many times. The WiFi extender also rebooted a few times. Caused my plan to fail as the loss of WiFi connection to the app is what I believe is causing the main camera to turn off, why it should do this I don't know as the hardware should continue to run regardless. Gave up for the night.

Just a  thought, have you analysed your wifi environment with something like this app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.signalmonitoring.wifimonitoring

There maybe interference from a neighbouring router and a change of channel may help.

[Elp]

I'll have a look, still doesn't explain why breaking the network connection causes the camera to turn off as the asiair should continue running regardless. Usually the guide camera still remains connected when this happens to the main camera.

[GrampyG]

I don't know if this is related but I purchased the Plus. It occasionally connected to the Wi-Fi and appeared fine, but tried again and it did not connect the camera. Touched the camera icon and the Wi-Fi fell out. This happened time and time again even though I tried changing every cable including the one to the camera which was USB 3, and even tried USB 2 cable--still had the same problem. The ASI Plus was returned for checking. In the meantime my ASI Pro was working fine and has done since I had it; this was fitted with a USB 2 cable between my cameras (294s) and the Pro. These were connected to the USB 3 Port of the pro. Tried the USB 3 cable, the Pro showed the Wi-Fi was fine but it was not picked up by the app. Tried unplugging cables, etc, and no difference. Replaced with the USB 2 cable to the usb 3 port of the Pro and all work fine again. Curious.

[Elp]

Any input is valuable to be honest as I've missed out on a lot of imaging the past week due to not being able to leave it running. I've ordered yet more high gauge shielded usb cables to try, and also longer usb and ethernet cable for the extender so I can place it on the ground to see if it's reception improves. If this fails I'll try a fixed ethernet cable to a laptop.

[Elp]

Update: Updated the asiair to the official 1.9 release (31st march), plugged in my shorter 28 awg shielded usb3 cables, used ethernet and usb extension cables so the WiFi extender can lay on the ground away from the asiair, did a 2 hour test indoors all rigged up just taking darks, manually switching off WiFi on my phone being disconnected for long stretches and reconnecting to the asiair. It worked fine no issue, so hopefully this issue is resolved. Will have to wait until another few actual sessions to confirm.

[Elp]

Update: One more 5 odd hour session, main camera disconnected during a plan which initially took 5 odd images fine, as soon as I went indoors it disconnected and caused the plan to pause. It ran okay otherwise on another 2 times I went indoors and also when I manually disconnected from the asiair a few times. When I checked the log a few days later it had actually disconnected twice, the second time my guide camera also disconnected. Could be cable flex but the scope was hardly moving as it was imaging the same target all night so effectively didn't move at all enough to cause the cables to flex. More testing needed, maybe next I'll stress relieve the cables to the cameras and asiair.

[Elp]

Update: another session different imaging setup, with the asiair pro running off mains power the WiFi extender wasn't used and it was connected to a DSLR, ran fine for around 5 hours no disconnection of camera whatsoever. The 183 was connected to a gen1 asiair with a power tank providing the power to the asiair and another power tank providing the cooling power to the 183, this again ran for around 4.5 hours no disconnection whatsoever. This leads me to suspect as it was originally something to do with the WiFi, either in the asiair pro or via the extender.

[KP82]

ASIAIR is essentially a RPi4 with additional psu and custom software. The USB ports on the RPi4 have a cap on the total current draw. The WiFi extender must be drawing too much current causing the other USB powered devices (both your main and guide cams) to temporarily lose power hence the disconnection. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by KP82

[Elp]

I had my suspicions on this also. Might have to live with the poor WiFi distance, don't know if the plus is any better. The reception and transfer speed of the plastic gen1 is so much better in comparison.

[Carbon Brush]

Some good ideas already put forward.
There is another possibility. One device involved is temperature sensitive.

Leave everything indoors where it is reasonably constant temperature, and does not get physically disturbed, and a wired network connection to a dedicated device.
This keeps thing simple and constant for you.
Establish that you can get 100% operation for several very long runs. Like 24h total without error.

Once you have this, you can start to introduce variables, one at a time under controlled conditions, and wait for it to break.
For example gently touching USB connectors.
Put the ASIAIR in the fridge and see if it works when removed. The RPi inside is after all kitchen table/hobby piece of kit without formal specifications.
Next camera in the fridge and see if it works immediately on removal.
Then go to a wireless connection. If it works OK, then put the ASIAIR in the fridge again and try wireless.
Do you have a different camera available for tests? Can you swap camera with someone?

I think you get the idea of establishing a reliable working setup then changing one thing at a time under controlled conditions.

Unfortunately USB & Wifi debugging to find low level errors is hidden from us mere mortals. We have to stick to module level!

As an example recently at work we had a few overseas systems failing intermittently - months after installation.
It was a USB port stopping working. Fixed by cycling the power.
As more faults got reported, from Alaska to the Middle East, we realised it was only happening in cold places and soon after power up.
We set up a rack of 10 CPU boards with USB power monitors because of the intermittent nature of the fault.
Fridge overnight. AM remove and power up. Quickly established a pattern that certain boards failed with ramping temperature.
OK you don't have 10 sets of equipment, but you get the idea of working through things one at a time.

HTH, David.

[Elp]

Update: tried my normal configuration barring the WiFi extender was usb connected to an external usb power bank. Ran for 4 hours+ no issue, hopefully I've found the cause.

[AstroNebulee]

13 minutes ago, Elp said:

Update: tried my normal configuration barring the WiFi extender was usb connected to an external usb power bank. Ran for 4 hours+ no issue, hopefully I've found the cause.

Good to hear, hopefully can he sorted now 👍