Musings on Time Travel

[saac]

26 minutes ago, George Jones said:

I have my own personal time machine - pop music. Listening to the old songs takes me back to a time decades earlier.

My personal time machine is my inner picture of myself that I  carry in my head. In there, I see myself as I was when in my 20s.  Sadly, one look in the mirror brings me back to the present .

[KenG]

So if we build a time machine and set it for 500 years in the past, I assume we arrive at the same geographical point as it was 500 years ago. We have to hope therefore, that there wasn't a large oak tree growing in that exact spot at that time. If we successfully navigate that hurdle, and our time machine has the ability to travel from the point of transfer so that we end up a considerable distance from it, if we return to what was our present from that point, where would we arrive? At our original departure point or the place we have travelled to?

[vlaiv]

6 minutes ago, KenG said:

So if we build a time machine and set it for 500 years in the past, I assume we arrive at the same geographical point as it was 500 years ago. We have to hope therefore, that there wasn't a large oak tree growing in that exact spot at that time. If we successfully navigate that hurdle, and our time machine has the ability to travel from the point of transfer so that we end up a considerable distance from it, if we return to what was our present from that point, where would we arrive? At our original departure point or the place we have travelled to?

Why do you think we should travel with earth being reference point? How about Sun?

Maybe we will jump 500 years in past only to find ourselves floating in space as Earth moved on its trajectory around the Sun.

Maybe our reference point is largest center of mass near by - so we will be located in interstellar medium as Sun also moved away on its trajectory rotating around galaxy center.

Ok, so I'm guessing earth is reference then, but if you travel in time only - you are very likely to end up on some other place on earth  - as earth rotates with respect to its center of gravity, In just 12h one is located on opposite side of earth.

I think that oak tree is the least of our worries

[Ouroboros]

Isn’t that why it’s called a Time and Relative Dimension in Space?  

[andrew s]

19 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Isn’t that why it’s called a Time and Relative Dimension in Space?  

Indeed and science fiction! 😊

[Zermelo]

39 minutes ago, KenG said:

If we successfully navigate that hurdle, and our time machine has the ability to travel from the point of transfer so that we end up a considerable distance from it, if we return to what was our present from that point, where would we arrive? At our original departure point or the place we have travelled to?

 

Rod Taylor opted for the latter ...

 

 

[KenG]

I suggested earth as presumably that's where we'd be starting from - can't see the advantage in getting fried before we start. So let's keep it simple. If our time machine only has the ability to go forwards or backwards from a fixed start position i.e., we have to return to our starting point, then the question is what our time does whilst we're in a different time. And the second question is, in what state do we travel - I don't mean drunk or sober - do we travel as ourselves or a disassembled collection of atoms/photons/bits or something else altogether?

 

[vlaiv]

3 hours ago, KenG said:

I don't mean drunk or sober

O, I'm gonna travel drunk, that is for sure!

 

[saac]

We need "geostationary time travel".  Here is a thought  - when one is in the interval of time travelling (assuming it is not instantaneous) are you gravitationally bound !  In the movie Interstellar (scientific adviser Kip Thorne)  Murph's dad was able to communicate across time using gravitational waves, strings, thingies ,  

Jim  

[Ouroboros]

5 hours ago, andrew s said:

Indeed and science fiction! 😊

How very dare you!!! 🤭 😉

[saac]

So  the photon experiences no time in crossing infinity, and by SR's slight of hand it also takes a little bit of  time like 13 billion years    This was posted elsewhere (way to go Hubble)  just goes to show frames of reference are everything when it comes to time travel and careful interpretation of what those pesky photons are actually doing    I think we have found our time machine  - HST. 

https://news.sky.com/story/scientists-discover-what-might-be-the-farthest-possible-star-ever-seen-12578253

Jim 

Edited March 30, 2022 by saac

[Kev M]

43 minutes ago, saac said:

So  the photon experiences no time in crossing infinity, and by SR's slight of hand it also takes a little bit of  time like 13 billion years    This was posted elsewhere (way to go Hubble)  just goes to show frames of reference are everything when it comes to time travel and careful interpretation of what those pesky photons are actually doing    I think we have found our time machine  - HST. 

https://news.sky.com/story/scientists-discover-what-might-be-the-farthest-possible-star-ever-seen-12578253

Jim 

Personally I would be giving my objective lens a wipe looking at that one.....

[KenG]

Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but as I understand it, the same photon can exist on either side of the universe in the same instant. If that were the case, then time travel may be possible by avoiding the tedious business of long distance space/time travel and instead, via the photon (and some infernal yet-to-be-invented machine), arrive instantly at wherever we would want to be.

Now for heaven's sake don't ask me to justify or explain this, I'm simply entering into the spirit of the thread and musing 🍷.

[saac]

5 minutes ago, Kev M said:

Personally I would be giving my objective lens a wipe looking at that one.....

If my objective delivered that I'd mount it in a light grey aluminium tube and label it Takahashi  

Jim 

[saac]

4 minutes ago, KenG said:

Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but as I understand it, the same photon can exist on either side of the universe in the same instant. If that were the case, then time travel may be possible by avoiding the tedious business of long distance space/time travel and instead, via the photon (and some infernal yet-to-be-invented machine), arrive instantly at wherever we would want to be.

Now for heaven's sake don't ask me to justify or explain this, I'm simply entering into the spirit of the thread and musing 🍷.

That's about it Ken, good summation.  Reminds me of this

Jim

[KenG]

Very funny 🤣

[Olsin]

On 27/03/2022 at 18:27, vlaiv said:

I'm not really comfortable with this assertion.

Can you point out things that are proven incorrect in past 5 years? I certainly feel that out of volume of my knowledge - 7% was not proven to be wrong.

 

I meant it in a casual and light hearted provocative way without really thinking about it. The actual quote that 7% of present knowledge will be shown to be incorrect in 5 years, comes from Steven Fry during one of his QI programs. I'm reasonably sure he did actually give a couple of examples but i can't remember them now. I don't recall if it was said that the 7% was accumulative. I wrote it out so just as i was following the provocative line.
Saying that, i do actually agree with the gist of the quote although i don't believe 100% of present knowledge will be shown to be incorrect in under 100 years. There are numerous examples showing that plenty of knowledge today was also true 100, 200, 300 und so weiter years ago.
However there are many examples of mainstream knowledge, defended by tooth and claw by the leading experts of the day, that eventually turned out to be totally incorrect.
In none of those examples was the change from one state of knowledge to another state, overnight. In many cases the leading experts of any given scientific discipline had to die or be totally overwhelmed with irrefutable proof, collected over many years before change occurred. Just look to USA and read up on their "Clovis First" dogma that held it's ground for decades despite proof trickling in through many years. Many researchers had their careers shattered simply because they wanted to keep looking instead of simply accepting the Clovis First dogma.
My point.
#1 We have no way of knowing what parts of our present knowledge are incorrect so we assume it's all correct until the opposite is proven. Even when we know something is not quite right, we carry on believing until absolute proof, preferably from many different sources is delivered.
This means that at any given moment in time we find ourselves in a flux position. The correctness of mainstream knowledge in flux with the considered yet unaccepted and unproven.
#2 Paradigm shifts have been leading contributors to human social and technological advancement throughout history. We have to consider that the future will come. The sun will rise every morning for many many millions of years yet. Throughout those years, how many new paradigm shifts will occur, how many super Einsteins are waiting to be born, how many technologies are yet to come that we don't even have the imagination yet to conceive. How many new words will need to be invented to allow discussion on future subjects.
These things lead me to an accept that nothing is impossible. What seems impossible today maybe just needs a new bit of tech to open it up.
Is time travel into the future possible.....maybe
The past.....maybe
Will humans embrace having their brains removed at birth and placed into a tech host that can live for thousands of years.....maybe
Basically if you can imagine it and you think the technology will one day be available, then the only answer to any question relating to the future is.....maybe....everything else is monologue designed to show others our depth of thought..

 

[Alien 13]

On 30/03/2022 at 23:21, KenG said:

Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but as I understand it, the same photon can exist on either side of the universe in the same instant. If that were the case, then time travel may be possible by avoiding the tedious business of long distance space/time travel and instead, via the photon (and some infernal yet-to-be-invented machine), arrive instantly at wherever we would want to be.

Now for heaven's sake don't ask me to justify or explain this, I'm simply entering into the spirit of the thread and musing 🍷.

What if there was only ever a single photon created and its everywhere and every time at once 🙂

Alan

[KenG]

The more we know, the less we know. Who would be bold enough to say this is not the case?

On 01/04/2022 at 17:24, Alien 13 said:

What if there was only ever a single photon created and its everywhere and every time at once 🙂

Alan

 

[saac]

On 02/04/2022 at 20:16, KenG said:

The more we know, the less we know. Who would be bold enough to say this is not the case?

 

We don't know that for certain; most likely be proved wrong in the future  

Jim 

[Mr Spock]

Timeline! This is no time to argue about time, we don't have the time...

[jjohnson3803]

On 24/03/2022 at 16:05, Mike Q said:

Time is a bunch of wibbily wobbly timey wimey....stuff.  You need a TARDIS to travel in it then you are good to go

Time is an illusion.  Lunchtime doubly so.

[DarkAntimatter]

Been reading this thread with interest and it just occurred to me that Mr Spock from an alternate timeline started this discussion.  This is spooky.

[Mr Spock]

The Vulcan Science Directorate has concluded that time travel is impossible. Therefore it does not exist.

[dweller25]

53 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

The Vulcan Science Directorate has concluded that time travel is impossible. Therefore it does not exist.

BUT……

Old Spock met young Spock 🙂

Edited April 6, 2022 by dweller25