Ha, Solar Wedge?

[Carbon Brush]

Some years ago I went straight from a wrinkly Baader film filter over the objective to a PST. More recently to an LS60.
Obviously completely different viewing, and I have enjoyed the Ha experience.

When I went for the PST (over 10 years ago) I don't remember Herschel wedges being popular.
Or maybe I was fixated on Ha, and thought a wedge was only a posh filter. It was a long time ago so I'm not sure.

I have never tried a solar wedge. Is it visually just like a decent film/filter over the objective?
But a wedge is almost 2nd hand PST money and a glass filter over the objective is cheaper than a wedge.
What about 'Brewster angle' vs conventional wedges? Popular with Lacerta, but not it seems with Baader & Lunt.

I would be interested to hear members experiences with wedges.
Do you see things in white light your Ha scope doesn't show?
I realise the prominences aren't there in white light.
Is it just easier than trying to tweak the etalon?

Looking forward to receiving comments.

David.

[Stu]

19 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

But a wedge is almost 2nd hand PST money and a glass filter over the objective is cheaper than a wedge.

I don’t think that’s correct. You can pick up a used Lunt 1.25” wedge with filters for somewhere between £100 and £150. Glass filters are not optical glass, so do not give as good views as Baader AstroSolar film, and a Wedge gives better views again. The contrast, brightness and detail are better in the wedge, and they are also more robust and in my book, safer than front filters.

To me, Ha viewing is incredible, but there is something about white light solar which I find mesmerising. With a good setup on a good day, the detail to be seen can be quite breathtaking. Granulation can be very vivid, and detail in the spots and active regions almost photographic. It is nothing like just detuning the etalon on a PST.

This rather long post of mine may be of interest and relevance.

 

[johninderby]

Basically the wedge will give sharper images than any front mounted filter. The Baader film is the best film and better than any currently available glass filter I’ve found. 

You may have noticed that many with an HA scope also use a wedge for white light. They compliment each other. The wedge may only be white light but I prefer it for sunspots.And much simpler than tuning as with an Ha scope. Rotating the polarising filter on the wedge allows adjusting the brightness and is a usefull option.

I have the Lacerta wedge and find it gives very similar results to the the Baader cool wedge. Just a step better than the basic Lunt wedge. Given the height of the sun in the UK find no problem with the Brewster angle. 

[Highburymark]

Sunspots are fundamentally photospheric features, which is why they are far better resolved through a wedge than an Ha scope/filter.
Compared with solar film, wedges are a little sharper and allow higher magnification I find - you need excellent seeing and a well figured scope to really study spots up close, but the detail can be wonderful as mentioned above - a real step up from solar film. Agree that Ha and WL complement each other. Nothing better than a dual mounted set up on a clear day, particularly as the new solar cycle revs up.

[Carbon Brush]

Thank you all for your very helpful replies. Lots of very good information to overload the grey cells!
Importantly, both white and Ha offer complementary views. One is not better than the other.
Looking the manufacturers different offerings, the mixture of included/recommended/extra cost filters needs a bit of thought.

I just hope I don't get the feeling that I need a 2nd Solarquest mount for a white light scope!
Trees and buildings mean I tend to move the LS60 around with time of day and year.

Thanks, David.

 

[RT65CB-SWL]

When used with a Baader Solar Continuum filter... get used to seeing the Sun in green.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Philip R

[Pete Presland]

I have a 1.25" Lunt wedge, the view is completely different to the Lunt H/A scope i own.  I prefer to see a highly detailed white light views, over a H/A image of the same area to be honest. 

I don't whether it is because back in the day the first Solar images i saw were just images of the Umbra/Penumbra of spots. But i still find them fascinating now, despite owning a H/A scope. That said though, when there are no spots, there is always plenty to see in H/A 🙂 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Pete Presland

[Rusted]

I have both a Lacerta 2" wedge and a Lunt 1.25".
Both give excellent views and are also used for imaging.
The Brewster angle can be a problem for visual use in tight spaces.
I can't get my head behind the Lacerta wedge at certain solar altitudes.
Because my dome base ring gets in the way. Others won't suffer from this problem.

A solar foil filter protects the telescope's innards.
While a wedge allows the full, focused heat of the sun to pass right through the telescope.
This requires much greater care at the eyepiece end to avoid injury or even fire.

For example: A plastic, focuser dust plug will readily burn if you have removed the wedge for safe storage.
As I did only recently. When I safeguarded the instruments due to a dangerous storm warning.
It is safer to have a cap for the dewshield until you are certain you have the wedge properly fitted.
A secure, opaque cap for the finder too!

The rotating polarizing filter is a great wedge accessory. Well worthwhile to set comfortable viewing brightness.
Just remember to minimize the light cut if you decide to image. Or your exposures could get very, very long!

[Carbon Brush]

Thank you again to everyone who has contributed.
After much thought I am ready (well almost ready) to buy a wedge.
But, another question.....

Considering 2" wedges, I can pay (in round figures) £200 for Lacerta, and around double for Lunt & Baader.
I didn't read anything in the earlier posts to suggest I would be better saving up for the Baader/Lunt.
Or anyone who said they wished they had gone for the Lacerta instead of spending more.

So unless I get told otherwise, it looks like being a Lacerta.
I already own 2" polarising & solar continuum filters so there is (apparently) nothing more to buy.
The Brewster angle doesn't sound to be a problem. My solar setup is always in the garden.

First use will be with my Equinox 80. This being within handling range of my Solarquest mount.
After that I will see how things go.

Looking forward to receiving comments on my wisdom, or stupidity, or failing to account for.......

David.

[johninderby]

Having  pwned the Baader Cool Wedge in the past and now have the Lacerta and can’t tell the difference performance wise. Didn't want to pay the price  pf the Baader when buying another wedge and haven’t regretted my choice for a second. 

BTW can really recommend getting a solar filter for a 9x50 finder . Makes a great solar finder setup.

[Paz]

I have a 1.25" Lacerta wedge and am happy with it, but it is the only wedge I have owned. The brewster angle I actually prefer as it makes the viewing angle closer to horizonal most of the time compared to a 90 degree angle and I observe seated and preferably looking as straight ahead as possible rather than looking down. It is robustly made and is T2 compatible. I now mostly use it with T2 adapters for the solidity they provide. I always use a polarising filter and almost always solar continuum filter. The brewster angle polarises more strongly but I don't think that makes a difference in practice, - I would imaging a 90 degree wedge can provide more than enough enough dimming adjustability for visual, I never use maximum dimming or anywhere near it with the Lacerta wedge. Note that the light path is slightly longer in this wedge compared to a 90 degree wedge, but I've always been fine with having enough focus in the scopes I use with it (which 4 different refractors).

[Carbon Brush]

Thanks again for your input.

I have pushed the 'buy' button on a 2" Lacerta wedge from 365Astronomy and will report in due course.
If we have daytime solid cloud for a month - sorry in advance.

 

 

[Roy Challen]

1 hour ago, Carbon Brush said:

Thanks again for your input.

I have pushed the 'buy' button on a 2" Lacerta wedge from 365Astronomy and will report in due course.
If we have daytime solid cloud for a month - sorry in advance.

 

 

I'd be interested in how you find it. I'm thinking of buying either 1.25" or 2" - not sure which yet, so if you tell us how much focus the 2" uses up, that'd be great.

[johninderby]

Like most wedges infocus can be a problem. However with the Lacerta you can use a shortish eyepiece holder to save a few mm which may be enough to help if you  have a problem. The Lacerta has a T2 thread on the rotator so any eyepiece holder with a T2 thread will fit.

Fortunately my 125 APO has a removable section on the front of the  focuser which sorts any potential problem out.

Edited May 13, 2022 by johninderby

[Carbon Brush]

31 minutes ago, Roy Challen said:

I'd be interested in how you find it. I'm thinking of buying either 1.25" or 2" - not sure which yet, so if you tell us how much focus the 2" uses up, that'd be great.

First use will be on the Equinox 80, which I'm sure will be fine. I will measure the focus position with wedge and without any 'diagonal' looking elsewhere of course!

Looking at the helpful replies and interest this thread has generated I will post some results/findings.

[Highburymark]

2 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

Thanks again for your input.

I have pushed the 'buy' button on a 2" Lacerta wedge from 365Astronomy and will report in due course.
If we have daytime solid cloud for a month - sorry in advance.

 

 

Good choice - I had the smaller 1.25” Lacerta wedge for a while with an Equinox 80, and they were great together. The 2” Lunt wedge, in comparison, has shot up in price recently and is now an expensive item. Am sure the Lacerta is just as good. 95% of the time, your main issue will be seeing anyway. Nice thing about an 80ED is that it copes with average seeing well.

[badhex]

Watching with interest. I have a pre-made Baader film filter for a 70 or 80mm scope, but have been thinking about solar with my 102ED, and if I'm going to buy something I'm also considering a wedge. 

Please let us know how you get on! 

[BGazing]

I was considering moving away from Baader film to wedge but instead went on a splurge and am waiting for Lunt 80 to replace my Quark. H-alpha is addictive. Still interested to hear how you find it compares to film. To me, moving from mono to bino in white light was a huge leap and, I understand, going from film to wedge is more subtle.

[badhex]

Have you had chance to use the wedge much @Carbon Brush?

I've had a few hours with my solar film filter again recently which reminded me of this thread - wondering if you've found there to be a noticeable improvement (I'd assume so). 

[Carbon Brush]

Sorry - a bit rushed.

The Lacerta wedge is here. I have used it on Bresser '102 achro scopes.

Views are really sharp (if the sky allows) compared to solar film on the objective.
I haven't had a camera on there to try to show how good the resolution can be when the atmospheric turbulence is frozen.

The open heatsink area is a good place to look for alignment. Though a conventional little solar finder works better.
Or maybe I should mark a target in the wedge heatsink?

Without an additional polarising or solar continuum filter, it is a bit bright for comfort. But not harmful.
Virtually all my viewing has used a solar continuum filter, removing any CA issues resulting from the achro scope.

The long light path of the 2" wedge may be a problem for some scopes.
A '102s has about 10-15mm focus travel remaining using most eyepieces.
A '102xs won't quite reach focus. Maybe hacksaw 10mm off the tube?
I haven't tried my Equinox yet.

In terms of money spent, I am very happy.
If anyone is thinking of the 2" wedge for mechanical reasons, look carefully at the light path length.

All for now.
 

 

 

[johninderby]

A very solidly built bit of kit and great views as well. 👍🏻

[badhex]

1 hour ago, Carbon Brush said:

Sorry - a bit rushed.

The Lacerta wedge is here. I have used it on Bresser '102 achro scopes.

Views are really sharp (if the sky allows) compared to solar film on the objective.
I haven't had a camera on there to try to show how good the resolution can be when the atmospheric turbulence is frozen.

The open heatsink area is a good place to look for alignment. Though a conventional little solar finder works better.
Or maybe I should mark a target in the wedge heatsink?

Without an additional polarising or solar continuum filter, it is a bit bright for comfort. But not harmful.
Virtually all my viewing has used a solar continuum filter, removing any CA issues resulting from the achro scope.

The long light path of the 2" wedge may be a problem for some scopes.
A '102s has about 10-15mm focus travel remaining using most eyepieces.
A '102xs won't quite reach focus. Maybe hacksaw 10mm off the tube?
I haven't tried my Equinox yet.

In terms of money spent, I am very happy.
If anyone is thinking of the 2" wedge for mechanical reasons, look carefully at the light path length.

All for now.
 

 

 

Thanks! Good to hear you have got on well with it. Maybe one to put on the wishlist then! 

[Rusted]

Good report CB.

Just to reinforce my earlier point:

The polarising filter is a "must have" with the Lacerta and provides instant [and fully adjustable] comfort.

EDIT: I have added an old picture to show the scale compared to a 2" star diagonal.
The Lacerta is a sturdy lump of solid metal.

The image doesn't seem to show up.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Rusted
added image