Choosing My First Telescope - A Three-Way Battle!

[kasabian21]

Hi,

First of all, hello everyone! 

As you can probably tell from the title, I'm looking to purchase my first telescope. After two months of pure research, I've whittled it down to three options (in no particular order):

1) Skywatcher Skymax 127/5" AZ-GTI (link)
2) Celestron StarSense Explorer DX 130 (Newtonian) (link)
3) Celestron StarSense Explorer DX 5" SCT (link)

I'm currently leaning towards the Mak or the SCT, but the Newtonian is also an option given that it is cheaper and that means there's more budget for eyepieces, a collimator etc. A dew shield, powerpack and at least one higher quality eyepiece will be purchased with the Mak/SCT (probably a 32mm plossl to allow for a wider FOV).

Now, I know many of you will point me in the direction of a 6" or 8" Dob but my current situation requires a far more portable telescope. I like the idea of the GoTo mount and the StarSense app, and I don't think I'm too fussed which I get. I know the former will track objects for me, but the StarSense app looks like a great piece of software that should make navigating relatively easy. 

I'm interested in seeing a bit of everything, but objects in the solar system will be my first port of call as that's something I've been interested in for a while. 

What are people's thoughts on the above? If you had to choose one of the above telescopes for a beginner, which would you suggest and why?

Cheers!

[johninderby]

The Mak and SCT are great planetary and lunar scopes but the Newt has a much wider field of view so perhaps a better all rounder.

The Mak won’t need collimating but the SCT and Newt will need collimating occasionally.

The AZ-GTi mount can also be used in EQ mode with the addition of a wedge so opens up the possibility of some AP .

Then of course the AZ-GTi is a proper GOTO mount whereas the Starsense is a push to.

Edited January 25, 2022 by johninderby

[Owmuchonomy]

The Az-Gti is definitely the mount you should go for but in your shoes I would put this on it and upgrade the diagonal/EPs:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-120t-ota.html

[Toltec]

17 hours ago, Owmuchonomy said:

The Az-Gti is definitely the mount you should go for but in your shoes I would put this on it and upgrade the diagonal/EPs:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-120t-ota.html

That might be a bit heavy for the Az-Gti, there is very little headroom and a 2" eyepiece could make it struggle. I have an Allview and with a similar weight 102mm/F7 and an Axiom 23mm (fair enough it is a bit of a grenade) I had to rebalance after aligning with a 1.25" reticle to keep it happy.

Having said that I'm newish to astronomy and maybe others know if the Az-Gti can handle over the stated limit or I'm mad for using an eyepiece like that anyway.

[Stu1smartcookie]

Agree with the above sentiment about weight of the ST120 , although its a fairly short scope . The accesories tip it over the edge . 

If you did like the look of that scope though , you could go for a Star discovery mount which is a bit more sturdy than the AZ-GTi but that can only be used in Alt Az mode ( see how many strands a new option opens up! ) . 

Going back to your initial choices the 127Mak is a favourite ( i have the same set up ) but if you go for it , factor in a dew shield and a bit of time for it to properly cool down . As John suggests , the wedge is an option and at that point you would need to upgrade the firmware on the mount . That isnt a difficult process but it does involve mouning the scope on the right of the mount , not the left . Of course you are limiting yourself to planets , lunar and the brighter DSO's with this scope ... oh and double stars ... hang on ! , there is plenty to see . Lets face it distant galaxies are just smudges in the EP , however cool it is to view them , so i would say the Mak is a good choice , with the AZ-GTi . And to be honest its quite satisfying to see that little mount operated from a smartphone  

Stu

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

On 25/01/2022 at 16:14, Owmuchonomy said:

The Az-Gti is definitely the mount you should go for but in your shoes I would put this on it and upgrade the diagonal/EPs:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-120t-ota.html

Really not recommended. The ota and accessories will overload the mount. Tried and tested.

@kasabian21, please see the threads linked below:

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by ScouseSpaceCadet
Links

[Adam J]

I would say the 127 Mac with the AZGTI but mainly because of the AZGTI as opposed to the scope. Not the the 127 Mac is a bad scope by any means. But you can always pick up something with a shorter focal length to complement it and the have a good mount to put it on. 

[Gfamily]

1 hour ago, Adam J said:

I would say the 127 Mak with the AZGTI but mainly because of the AZGTI as opposed to the scope. Not the the 127 Mak is a bad scope by any means. But you can always pick up something with a shorter focal length to complement it and the have a good mount to put it on. 

+1 for this. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Gfamily

[SuburbanMak]

I have the Mak 127 on an AZGTi & love it.  
Super scope for planetary & lunar, doubles down to 1” separation and a better performer on DSOs than its sometimes given credit for (I’ve had mine a year and have used it to track down 80/110 Messier objects - it’s good on planetary nebulae, the brighter globular & tight open clusters and galaxies (showing some form in half a dozen or so), especially from a darker site.

Dimmer targets can be detected and “ticked off” but not much more / e.g. fainter globs, elliptical galaxies.  
Crab Nebula, M33 & Owl Neb required a moonless night from a good Bortle 4 location. 

Only the biggest targets fail to fit in the just over one degree FoV - Andromeda Galaxy, The Beehive, Pleiades etc - still gives great views to pan around, but if you’re into wide star fields it’s the wrong tool.

Under a dark sky performance is transformed - as with anything. 
Great optics, portability and bomb proof construction. 

Have found the AZGTi a good performer - particularly the Point & Track feature that keeps objects in view. SynScan app easy to use, minus a few user experience glitches on more recent iPhones. Also can easily be linked to SkySafari app to drive the scope directly from the map or one of the many free downloadable observing lists (I do this sometimes when feeling lazy!).

I am a year in and don’t have experience of the other scopes you’re considerIng but the Mak has got me well & truly hooked as an observer. 
Whatever you choose, have fun & clear skies! 

Edited January 27, 2022 by SuburbanMak

[PeterC65]

Another +1 from me for the MAK on a GOTO mount. Mine is on the SynScan AZ GOTO mount which is older technology than the AZ GTi, but sturdier I think and I like that the hand controller has chunky buttons (still usable when wearing gloves) and doesn't mess up my eyes dark adaption.

The field of view from the MAK is a bit limited and for that I also have a short refractor.

 

[rob_r]

19 hours ago, Adam J said:

I would say the 127 Mac with the AZGTI but mainly because of the AZGTI as opposed to the scope. Not the the 127 Mac is a bad scope by any means. But you can always pick up something with a shorter focal length to complement it and the have a good mount to put it on. 

Another +1 because this is exactly how I started out a few years ago, it is the SynScan version controlled via a mobile phone app. I've recently purchased the Evostar 72ED to complement my Mak for it's shorter focal length. I also have the weightier EQ5 GoTo mount too. The Mak is great for lunar and planetary but will struggle to fit the larger DSOs within the FOV or frame if you go down the AP route.

[Yubnub]

Do you guys the had/have the SW 127 Mak recommend any mods or definite changes to the standard equipment. 

[JDF]

2 minutes ago, Yubnub said:

Do you guys the had/have the SW 127 Mak recommend any mods or definite changes to the standard equipment. 

Change the 10mm eyepiece for sure, I use the Baader Classic Ortho 10mm but there are others, a 32mm plossl is also a good bet.

Edited January 27, 2022 by JDF

[Yubnub]

Would you recommend a Barlow too? Or does this push the limits of the scope too far?

[PeterC65]

19 minutes ago, Yubnub said:

Do you guys the had/have the SW 127 Mak recommend any mods or definite changes to the standard equipment. 

I changed the clamp on the visual back to make it very easy to cant over the diagonal so that the eyepiece orientation can be set comfortably. That may seem like a small thing but I do it all the time and it really helps me concentrate on observing.

Actually I changed the diagonal and changed its connection with the scope to a 2" Baader Clicklock. But any good clamp with a brass clamping ring rather than just the thumbscrews that come as standard would do the job.

I also agree with @JDF that better eyepieces are needed, particularly the 10mm, and something with a longer focal length than 25mm to get a bigger exit pupil (I have a 40mm plossl).

Edited January 27, 2022 by PeterC65

[JDF]

5 minutes ago, Yubnub said:

Would you recommend a Barlow too? Or does this push the limits of the scope too far?

I don't think you will need a barlow, get a decent 10 or 9mm and you should be set. I sometimes use a 7mm to give 214x but seeing needs to be really good. In the 18 months i've been using the scope the 7mm has given good views on maybe 3 occasions. You may get different opinions on this but this is my experience with my skies.

[PeterC65]

8 minutes ago, Yubnub said:

Would you recommend a Barlow too? Or does this push the limits of the scope too far?

It depends on what eyepieces you have. The Skymax 127 can handle eyepiece focal lengths down to 6mm but in practice I rarely go below 8mm (the lower end of my Baader Zoom). I have a Barlow for the Zoom but I only used it with my refractor which can handle focal lengths down to 3mm.

[bosun21]

5 hours ago, Yubnub said:

Would you recommend a Barlow too? Or does this push the limits of the scope too far?

Personally I have not needed to use any Barlow with my 127. I usually go down to 7mm on the planets giving me 214x. I can go down to 5mm on the moon. I upgraded the diagonal to a dielectric and fitted a telrad finder as the supplied 6x30 was a struggle. I of course upgraded the eyepieces. It’s a great little scope that punches way above it’s weight 

[rob_r]

10 hours ago, Yubnub said:

Do you guys the had/have the SW 127 Mak recommend any mods or definite changes to the standard equipment. 

I dropped the Red Dot finder for a 9x50 AstroMaster RACI, a dew shield is a definite requirement too. Certainly consider upgrading the EPs too and especially the supplied diagonal. As for Barlows, I only really use my 2.5x Televue for AP. The Mak is a theoretical maximum magnification of 317.5x. 

[Yubnub]

Is the RDF really that useless? What benefits does the right angle finder have?

[Yubnub]

10 hours ago, bosun21 said:

I upgraded the diagonal to a dielectric and fitted a telrad finder as the supplied 6x30 was a struggle.

Have googled and still cant figure this out ☺️

 

[Yubnub]

16 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

I changed the clamp on the visual back to make it very easy to cant over the diagonal so that the eyepiece orientation can be set comfortably

Is this an easy upgrade? 

[johninderby]

The stock RDF isn’t very good. There are much better ones available. Telrad is really only suitable for a bigger scope as it’s rather latge.

For a smaller scope the Rogel Quickfinder is more suitable. Often combined woth a RACI finder (right angle correct image).

Upgrading the diagonal to a better one is popular as besides the quality of the mirror also will have much better build quality.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/rigel-quikfinder-compact-reflex-sight.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/stellamira-125-90-erecting-prism-diagonal.html

 

 

 

[PeterC65]

2 minutes ago, Yubnub said:

Is this an easy upgrade? 

Yes. First check if the thread on the visual back is non-standard (45mm in diameter) or SCT (50mm in diameter). If it is non-standard then you will need this MAK to SCT Adapter. Once you have an SCT thread at the visual back you can screw on lots of different SCT accessories. I screwed on a Baader SCT 2" Clicklock Clamp which allows me to fit 2" accessories. I have a 1.25" Baader prism diagonal with a 2" nosepiece, but you could get a 2" diagonal or a 2" to 1.25" adapter and use the 1.25" diagonal that comes with the Skymax 127.

[PeterC65]

15 minutes ago, Yubnub said:

Is the RDF really that useless? What benefits does the right angle finder have?

I can't comment on the RDF as mine came with a 6x30 straight finder, but I did upgrade the straight finder for a 9x50 RACI (this one) and would recommend doing so. The reason being that both the finder eyepiece and the main scope eyepiece are then at right angles to the axis of the scope so you can swap easily between them, and more importantly, you can look through the finder with the scope pointing upwards without having to crawl around on the ground.

I have recently bought a Baader RDF for my refractor. I find it useful for aligning with clearly visible stars, but like the straight finder, it does involve crawling around on the ground. I'm not aware of any red dot / red circle type finders which are also right angled.