I wish I had a mentor relationship with someone here

[Maideneer]

What does that mean you ask?

What I mean is someone who is more experienced than me in AP and in gear knowledge that I can have live Zoom/Facetime chats with so I can learn.  Someone who is naturally a teacher at heart and doesn't mind potentially silly questions but also someone that can speak in plain English and not get too techy or down the very deep rabbit hole of numbers and equations and whatnot.

I'd like to "be with" someone as they are actually doing imaging of M31 or some other target because that's something I have zero idea how to do or where to start and it's easier than typing typing typing typing all the time.  Once one question is answered on a message board, a whole new set of questions appears, and then it's back to typing typing typing hoping for an answer and you don't know what you don't know so more than likely one isn't even sure if they are asking the right kind of questions.  As for myself, I've gotten pretty decent at planetary imaging so not a total newbie but still, I have no guiding equipment, have no knowledge of guiding software, don't have any idea where to begin. Lost but eager.

A buddy system would be amazing - the real challenge is the time zone thing.  I'm US CST based and lots of you are UK based, so while it's nighttime for you I'm still in my office working on budgets *le sigh*

I feel like a lot of hesitant newbies would benefit from something like this and I feel like it brings people closer together.  Being a natural introvert, a large group setting like an astronomy club isn't always an option and there are so many good and qualified people here anyway, I feel like the population to draw from here is a better option.

Not sure what the experienced user would get out of it though, not much knowledge really...maybe just a new friend.

Anyway, just trying to share some thoughts as we continue on through this digital age - perhaps trying to see if some of us can extend beyond the actual message board a little bit

[PeterCPC]

You could start by reading "Making every photon count".

[qisback]

+1 for Making every photon count

It was the book recommended to me and is the book I recommend for everyone else. OK, some of the pictures and technology is aging slightly however the fundamental information is still absolutely spot on.

[apaulo]

not a ridiculous idea, suggestion. As far as the time zone issue goes, try the same idea on cloudy nights see how it goes. there is a lot of info for a/p on you tube, good luck    paul.

[Budding Star Gazer]

Check out YT channels like astrobackyard & astrobiscuit, the latter has a discord channel which is quite collaborative.. Will most likely join it myself as i like the idea of his shared imaging project  & is probably a fantastic opportunity to be part of something while getting the tech supoort as well. 

[happy-kat]

You might like watching the recorded zoom StarGaZine sessions from last year, there were plenty on different aspects of astrophotography

There's a forum section on all the sessions and a YouTube channel

Edited December 1, 2021 by happy-kat

[ollypenrice]

I entirely understand this because, before Covid, I was an astronomy provider, offering farmhouse holidays which included use of our observatories and help with both capture and processing. A hands-on and face-to-face arrangement lets you make spectacular progress compared with learning from text.  (For all that, do try Making Every Photon Count.) Before 'teaching' this stuff, I learned it myself in the same way from our guests, at a time before we offered astrophotography here. 

However, SGL offers a great 'buddy' environment even if not in real time. In order to make the most of it I would offer these pointers:

- Seek to understand the underlying principles behind every single thing you do in AP. That doesn't mean drown in the technical details. It means understand the abstract principles before engaging with the details.

- Believe that no one thing in AP is truly difficult.  It consists of a large number of inter-connected but fairly easy challenges. The only hard part is that you need them all in place at the same time, so don't be overwhelmed, take it one step at a time. Tick them off as you go. Polar alignment. Autoguiding. Focus. Framing. Calibrating. Stacking. Post processing.

- Avoid using too much software and automation. It is often very confusing, unreliable, conflict-prone and USB-reliant. (Nothing causes more headaches than USB.) It also gets in the way of your learning because doing things manually teaches you a lot about them. I would start with a Go-To mount, capture software and PHD guiding with an ST4 cable, not pulse guiding. And that's it. No plate solving, no robotic focus. Keep it simple, meaning manual.

- When it comes to videos on the capture side, most are sound. However, there is an incredible amount of nonsense on U tube when it comes to processing. People seem to think it acceptable to post-as-they-learn, which strikes me as bizarre. Trust Adam Block and Warren Keller even if that means buying a video course.

One step at a time. And breathe... 

lly

[scotty38]

I agree with all of what Olly says especially the Adam Block stuff and I make no apology for saying I have become a fanboy of his.

[Richard_]

Yeah, you may get better luck on Cloudy Nights given the time zone difference. By the time you get home from work, wait for nightfall to setup, most of us would be halfway through an imaging session or even in bed. Remember, this is the UK and having a clear night is a rarity, even more so to coincide with a clear night on your end! 

I've only been in the hobby for 1 year with no prior experience with astronomy and I can't get over how much I've learned over the past year. Adam Block makes some fantastic videos on YouTube, and I reckon the biggest improvement in understanding processing came from watching his series on the WBPP 2.0 script which he released earlier this year. The series is long and whilst Adam goes into the details, it's not daunting at all as he's a very good natural teacher. Just make sure you spend the time to understand each video, don't blitz through it. I haven't got around to paying for his premium videos, only because I still have many of his free videos to learn from. 

If you want something more real time than an online forum, consider joining some discord channels. If you're unfamiliar with discord, it's a website/app where you can engage in real-time conversations with individual users or a group of people in a chat room. There is a channel created by AstroBiscuit on YouTube, and there is also one for the r/Astrophotography subreddit. I've only used the latter which is great if you have a quick and easy question which needs answering. 

[AstroMuni]

12 hours ago, Maideneer said:

What I mean is someone who is more experienced than me in AP and in gear knowledge that I can have live Zoom/Facetime chats with so I can learn. 

I joined a local club here and and folk are extremely helpful to join a zoom call at short notice to help out. So my suggestion would be for you to find a local astro club and make friends with like minded folk nearby.

[scotty38]

1 hour ago, Richard_ said:

Yeah, you may get better luck on Cloudy Nights given the time zone difference. By the time you get home from work, wait for nightfall to setup, most of us would be halfway through an imaging session or even in bed. Remember, this is the UK and having a clear night is a rarity, even more so to coincide with a clear night on your end! 

I've only been in the hobby for 1 year with no prior experience with astronomy and I can't get over how much I've learned over the past year. Adam Block makes some fantastic videos on YouTube, and I reckon the biggest improvement in understanding processing came from watching his series on the WBPP 2.0 script which he released earlier this year. The series is long and whilst Adam goes into the details, it's not daunting at all as he's a very good natural teacher. Just make sure you spend the time to understand each video, don't blitz through it. I haven't got around to paying for his premium videos, only because I still have many of his free videos to learn from. 

If you want something more real time than an online forum, consider joining some discord channels. If you're unfamiliar with discord, it's a website/app where you can engage in real-time conversations with individual users or a group of people in a chat room. There is a channel created by AstroBiscuit on YouTube, and there is also one for the r/Astrophotography subreddit. I've only used the latter which is great if you have a quick and easy question which needs answering. 

Based on my previous comment it will come as no surprise to say I agree with you too! I paid for his fast track course and once I feel I've "mastered" that much then I'll move on to his main set of videos.

That said, as you've pointed out there is much to learn from his free stuff. I also bought Warren Keller's book as well as Rogelio Bernal Andreo's and with those three resources alone I have enough to last me a lifetime but it still doesn't stop me looking around. Need to be mindful of Olly's point there though because, as a beginner, it's hard to know what is right or not quite right.

Edited December 1, 2021 by scotty38

[ollypenrice]

2 hours ago, scotty38 said:

Need to be mindful of Olly's point there though because, as a beginner, it's hard to know what is right or not quite right.

I think the moment you here a phrase like, 'You just mess around with the sliders till you like what you see,' turn off the video! Nobody who knows what they are doing ever says that.

Olly

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

I think the moment you here a phrase like, 'You just mess around with the sliders till you like what you see,' turn off the video! Nobody who knows what they are doing ever says that.

Olly

Olly, that is precisely my approach when attempting any sort of image processing, and is also precisely why I consider myself to be a purely visual astronomer! 🤣🤣

[powerlord]

Coming up to a year now for me, and yeh - initially hardest bit is finding a hook into the 'universe' (sic).

when everything is new, it's like a different language. But once you get that hook in, and learn enough basic bits, your learning accelerates quite quickly. Mostly my learning has been through youtube and here. No books - I've never been a fan of books for learning stuff. reading fiction yes, learning how to do xyz, not so much. But everyone is different.

Pick an area you want to focus on - observing, imaging planets, dslr stuff, whatever. and focus (sic again) on just that. Once you feel you've mastered that enough, the next area will be a doddle as your learning base has a good foundation.

I found the hardest bit physical stuff like how to set up mounts and align things, etc - youtube videos were not good, and explanations are never very good.. i.e. took me ages to understand what the 'home position' was. I'm sure that sort of stuff I struggled with would have been straight forward if someone was actually doing it for me, or in front of me.

Also, best intensions, but some folk have a different idea of acceptable sometimes. so I was maybe put off trying some things because I was told it was pointless. But it wasn't for me. I learned from it, and I got pictures I liked out of it (Im thinking of when I stuck my DSLR on my skymax102). So listen and learn, but also, do what you want - there's no rules.

[Maideneer]

Thank you all.  I just registered on the Cloudy Nights forum, I didn't realize they were US Based.  I do have the photon book, I'm just not a very strong reader...retaining information that way is difficult.  I'd like to think I've made good progress over the course of about 9-10 months with some of the basics, but I haven't even touched guiding softwares or scopes or cams yet, it seems very daunting. And even though I've obtained many gadgets along the way like motor focusers and flip mirrors and an ADC and whatnot, those don't seem quite as overwhelming as effectively doubling my set-up would be by guiding. I make it seem like the roadblock here is all guiding and it certainly isn't, there's plenty other stuff to learn I just don't know where to start and in what order.

The journey continues, but advice here is very valuable to me.

[Richard_]

Rightly or wrongly, I started by looking at things which would make my imaging sessions more efficient. I figured that as long as I have good subs, I can always come back to edit them at a future date as my processing skills improve, right? 

In the beginning, I was using a DSLR, star Adventurer tracker and a Redcat 51. No fancy gadgets or power, this was all battery operated and simple! However, I used to throw away half of my subs each night due to elongated stars due to no guiding. I also lost time by swapping batteries out in the DSLR after 2-3hrs, refocusing during temperature changes, struggling to find objects in the sky, inaccurate polar alignment etc. Whilst I'm an advocate of KISS like Olly, sometimes a little bit of tech-know-how can make a big difference! 

Over a year, I introduced guiding so that elliptical stars were less of a problem. Then an ASI Air Pro so that I could set up an image sequence without the use of an intervalometer, power all my equipment from one power source, and plate solve so I could find my way around the sky. Then a dedicated astro camera (ASI533) so that I could capture H-alpha data much faster than a stock DSLR. Then a Go-To mount so that I didn't have to search for objects in the sky. Then a dual narrowband filter so that I could image nebula during moon cover, and to reduce effects from light pollution. Then an auto focuser so that telescope could refocus after temperature shifts. Now, the only time I tend to throw a sub away is due to wind movement, cloud cover or obstructions (eg neighbours fence) which is outside my control. 

I saw each of these enhancements as a mini-project which took a little bit of time to learn, which consisted mainly of reading books, discussing on forums, watching YouTube videos, trial and error, bashing my head on the desk etc, but in the end, the combination of all these small steps has all resulted in far more efficient imaging sessions. Now it's down to the smooth brain typing this comment to do the processing part, which is definitely my weak point!

[powerlord]

That is spot on. Ditto here. I saw all that extra complexity and railed against it. But like you, slowly one step at a time realised its value. In 2 hours I'll go outside with my eq6r Pro, p200 asi533, asi120 guide camera, asiair,  dew heaters and what not. I'll have it all setup and polar aligned in about 15 mins, then back into the warmth. At 12.30am I'll set my alarm (don't trust asiair schedules yet),  point it at rosette nebula and start it shooting subs for 4 hours while I sleep.

 

[Stickey]

11 hours ago, AstroMuni said:

I joined a local club here and and folk are extremely helpful to join a zoom call at short notice to help out. So my suggestion would be for you to find a local astro club and make friends with like minded folk nearby.

Ditto for joining a local club.

I joined a club a few years ago and the amount I've learned is incredible. 

We also have club observing sessions when a bunch of us get together at a nearby dark site and do some observing. Any issues, there's always someone to ask and pandemic permitting, they can help you sort it out

[barbulo]

Fully agree with all said here. Savvy words from savvy people. 
My 2-cents: as a beginner myself I would say practice is paramount; trial and error made me understand many things I previously had read about but didn’t really understand. Unfortunately, we need clear skies, very rare in some places (my investment-per-night ratio is  still above 100€ 😭), which makes the learning curve even steeper.  
 

[powerlord]

quite. update from last night... got no clear skies.. clouds everywhere, then clear.. just get on target.. clouds everywhere again. then mount got twisted in cables at 2am so had to go out and sort that out.. finally gave in and turned everything off at 3.30am.

patience is also required with our weather. sigh. ☹️

[AstroMuni]

1 hour ago, barbulo said:

Unfortunately, we need clear skies, very rare in some places (my investment-per-night ratio is  still above 100€ 😭), which makes the learning curve even steeper.

Agreed This is where choice of right software helps. I use Ekos which comes with Simulators that you can practice almost the entire journey without waiting for clear skies and this has helped immensely.

[Tim]

Sounds like you would enjoy a star party and the chance to see gear working.

There are so many different approaches to the same goal that I see amongst various imaging folks, you'll have to figure out where you want to be on the scale, from quick setup, smash and grab imaging to full on control every factor and analyse every last detail. There is no end to the amount of technical interference you can involve in astrophotography these days, and only you will know where you will feel comfortable with your results. 

 

For my part I like to take the shortest, easiest route to my destination, and would say that having a permanently set up, accurately polar aligned, good quality mount will drastically reduce the amount of time required to set up other things, thereby increasing your dark sky time.

Have fun learning, there's no rush

 

Tim