Rowan AZ75 Mount

[Alan White]

3 hours ago, Fedele said:

Will it be possible to use the next MOTOR / GOTO KIT?

Thanks

Not as far as I am aware.

Intentionally the mount has no internal gears, so no slow motion or other connection for motors but

Customer feedback will be listened to by Rowan, they do customer interaction well.

 

[Alan White]

3 hours ago, AdeKing said:

I'm interested the hear more about this aspect as you form opinions and this thread progresses Alan.

I really am following both threads with interest.

Whilst looking similar to the AZ100, as well as being more compact, it is clearly a different mount and aimed at a different niche than the AZ100.

This does very much look like it will very nicely fill the gap in the market that @John has been pointing out for a few years now.

What's more is it's British designed and built which has to be a good thing.

Hats off to the Rowan boys.

I think you have all of that correct Ade, 

A different mount for different folks and uses.

I can see some owning both Rowan mounts for differing uses.

 

[Deadlake]

Also of interest would be performing a nudge test, how fast does the mount settle after focusing when looking at the moon for instance.

Agree could be a different market for this. To be honest with planets using a tracking GEM is the best to make use of *moments* of good seeing, but for everything else over the winter this scope would fill that niche..

[jock1958]

2 minutes ago, Alan White said:

Not as far as I am aware.

Intentionally the mount has no internal gears, so no slow motion or other connection for motors but

Customer feedback will be listened to by Rowan, they do customer interaction well.

 

Got to admit was a bit disappointed to hear no slo mo's were being added, maybe they could future proof it with the ability to add these as a modification?

Having owned an Ercole it frustrated me lots having to nudge, nudge then miss the target completely especially during high powered viewing, maybe the AZ75 won't suffer from the same stiction and balance issues I encountered, I'm following these threads with interest to see what you both come up with.

 

[Stephenstargazer]

Looks as i f those Vixen clamps would go on an AZ100......that would be nice! A bit smaller lighter etc

So should we assume that the AZ75 starts without some of AZ100 functions but can encoders be built in, would make a very god push to with the Nexus or DSC.

Of course it works with DSC! you can see the encoder connections on the mount!!! However unless there is room for gear wheels inside it will be quite a mod to add slow motions in future.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Stephenstargazer

[Alan White]

Last night in use it was very smooth, no stiction and nice clutches

The clutch is the same as the AZ100 in design from what I have been told and seen at Rowan Towers

Minor adjustments to where the Nexus DSC was pointing me, were easy, smooth and painless

AZ75 same as the AZ100 comes with option of encoders or not. Some folks don’t want encoders, some do

I have to say Planetary or Lunar needing slow motion or tracking?  
Again we all vary, I do both with all push to mounts at high power no problems.
I see that this mount will make that more pleasurable and deliver better than some others have.

I will also answer @AdeKing about other AltAz and issues with stiction etc.
Perhaps my experience with a number of them on the quest for the right one has bestowed a 'special skill', but I think not,
The AZ75 is far easier in use after careful ballance and was a joy in use last night.
I swapped from the 30mm APM UFF to the 10mm XW without balance changes required, I think the step down insize to the Nagler Zoom or HR might have required a slight ballance change, but that's AltAZ mounts, you just get on with it.
Some folks cannot cope with that, that's fine, we all differ.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Alan White
added info

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Stephenstargazer said:

However unless there is room for gear wheels inside it will be quite a mod to add slow motions in future.

Slow motions won’t be added at a later date, the design deliberately excluded them as to add them would have added weight, cost and size, pushing it too near the AZ100. Different mounts for different purposes.

[Stu]

6 hours ago, jock1958 said:

Having owned an Ercole it frustrated me lots having to nudge, nudge then miss the target completely especially during high powered viewing, maybe the AZ75 won't suffer from the same stiction and balance issues I encountered, I'm following these threads with interest to see what you both come up with

I’ve owned a couple of Ercoles, and also Giro and mini giro mounts. This is in a different class in terms of lack of stiction so accurate small movements should be very easy.

6 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Agree could be a different market for this. To be honest with planets using a tracking GEM is the best to make use of *moments* of good seeing, but for everything else over the winter this scope would fill that niche..

I do agree that an equatorial mount is very good for tracking planets at high power, but the AZ100 is very easy to track too using the slo motion controls or the pan handle. Time will tell on the AZ75 but in the same way people are able to use Dobs at high power, I expect this to be very easy.

[Alan White]

2 hours ago, Stu said:

Slow motions won’t be added at a later date, the design deliberately excluded them as to add them would have added weight, cost and size, pushing it too near the AZ100. Different mounts for different purposes.

Indeed that's what Rowan told me before I went to Banbury for my visit and makes complete sense to me.

 

2 hours ago, Stu said:

I’ve owned a couple of Ercole, and also Giro and mini giro mounts. This is in a different class in terms of lack of stiction so accurate small movements should be very easy.

I do agree that an equatorial mount is very good for tracking planets at high power, but the AZ100 is very easy to track too using the slo motion controls or the pan handle. Time will tell on the AZ75 but in the same way people are able to use Dobs at high power, I expect this to be very easy.

Fully agree on the different class of smothness, its a case of stiction? what stiction. Clearly it physically must have some, but not that notices.
Colder weather will show, but I feel the quality of the clutches is what's making this work well.
If you like the AZ100 clutches, well they are the same design.

I have never got on with EQ mounts, so stuck with AltAz, Never found tracking a challenge even at higher powers, but that's a learned skill I think to some extent,
as well as your ability to sit and observe in changing seeing, something that comes to us all with patience.
I will get a night with the HR 3.4 at some point and I will be very surprised if the mount offers challenges in any way, but the proof of the pudding is in th eating of course.

 

 

[Alan White]

Having talked with Rowan before the agreement for me to test the AZ75 and my answers above, just to be clear:

Although slow motion could have been included in the AZ75 design, the mount is aimed at a different niche and is to compete against a different  range of mounts to where the AZ100 sits.
With Slow motion, the AZ75 would be in the same group and then the cost of the additional components would price the AZ75 very close to the AZ100.
After all, there would be only a small saving in material cost and slightly shorter machining time in the 25mm size differences of the overall mounts.

 

 

[Alan White]

7 hours ago, Deadlake said:

Also of interest would be performing a nudge test, how fast does the mount settle after focusing when looking at the moon for instance.
 

Shall I hit my tripod and telescope with a Club hammer or will my hand do? 😉 It's something of an Astronomers fixation.
I do wonder how often do we thump our mounts in actual use?
Not a lot I should think unless we are a Butter Fingers, but most happy to feedback.

Last night I did the obligatory how long to settle after focus and bashed the tripod with my hand,
I just knew the question would be asked.

It setteld in less than 1 second, well counting at the One Elephant rate out loudly..... Oh how I must have sounded deranged.
The reality is this is on the EQ5 steel tripod, on a wooden one, it would have sttled even faster,
ut unless someone wishes to gift me such a tripod, then the Steel one is the one for my Prototype testing.

Focus wise, really no shakes other than the momentary I have touched the scope moment, its all very solid.

I hope that's a suitable answer, sorry if it sounds a little flippant, its my dry sense of humour, honestly.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Alan White

[Stephenstargazer]

You are both doing a great job of letting us know what the new mount is and is not. The nagging question for AZ100 users is should I have waited, or even do I need both!! I would love the lighter weight as that was nearly a sticking point with the 100. I fall into the slow motion camp, but have found that simple ones are not good enough. So I think the decision to leave them out rather than compromise is sound.

My most recent Jupiter session was a joy with AZ 100 turning the az so slowly that it just stayed centered. Good seeing and never would have got the driven mount set up due to fleeting cloud. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Stephenstargazer

[Deadlake]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

I do agree that an equatorial mount is very good for tracking planets at high power, but the AZ100 is very easy to track too using the slo motion controls or the pan handle. Time will tell on the AZ75 but in the same way people are able to use Dobs at high power, I expect this to be very easy.

The GEM is better on planets, however it takes 20-30 minutes to setup vs 5 minutes with the AZ100 (almost grab and go). On nights where the seeing is not great at the start and you may have to wait until 11.30 the quick take down for the az100, two trips makes it a real winner on a school night. Scope used rules in the best scope. Open minded to how az75 performs, but using the pan handle for tracking on planets with the az100 does not have the finess needed IMHO. 

[Deadlake]

28 minutes ago, Alan White said:

It setteld in less than 1 second, well counting at the One Elephant rate out loudly.....

This was my expectation, seeing how solid the az100 is.

[John]

56 minutes ago, Alan White said:

...With Slow motion, the AZ75 would be in the same group and then the cost of the additional components would price the AZ75 very close to the AZ100.
After all, there would be only a small saving in material cost and slightly shorter machining time in the 25mm size differences of the overall mounts.

 

 

I'm not at all surprised by that.

But ........ it still leaves a niche for a quality mid-range alt-az mount that DOES have slow motion controls.

[Deadlake]

17 minutes ago, Stephenstargazer said:

The nagging question for AZ100 users is should I have waited, or even do I need both!! I would love the lighter weight as that was nearly a sticking point with the 100.

Given the az75 with slow slo mo’s would be close the the az100 in price I wonder what could be done to make the az100 lighter, maybe a carbon bottom part. More expense but in the US quite a large number of observers who would like to reduce the weight of there kit due to age so sure there is a market there. I saved 4 kg using a lighter T-Pod tripod over the planet, but maybe other options.

[Stephenstargazer]

Well for a start  you can use a lighter clamp and forego the counterweight. That takes off a few pounds (weight and money) if you don't have a big scope!

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Stephenstargazer said:

even do I need both

That’s where I am at the moment! 😱They offer different things whilst offering the same things. The 75 has the portability and grab and go, the 100 has the slow motion controls and tracking motor potential. Both offer fantastic stability, smooth motion and push to. Simples.

[Alan White]

2 hours ago, Stephenstargazer said:

You are both doing a great job of letting us know what the new mount is and is not. The nagging question for AZ100 users is should I have waited, or even do I need both!! I would love the lighter weight as that was nearly a sticking point with the 100. I fall into the slow motion camp, but have found that simple ones are not good enough. So I think the decision to leave them out rather than compromise is sound.

My most recent Jupiter session was a joy with AZ 100 turning the az so slowly that it just stayed centered. Good seeing and never would have got the driven mount set up due to fleeting cloud. 

Thank you, for the Thank You.

The speed of set up and simplicity of either the AZ100 or 75 is one of the many advantages of these manual mounts.
The 75 wins in being far lighter too, a one hand carry on a steel tripod with my steel riser.

1 hour ago, Deadlake said:

The GEM is better on planets, however it takes 20-30 minutes to setup vs 5 minutes with the AZ100 (almost grab and go). On nights where the seeing is not great at the start and you may have to wait until 11.30 the quick take down for the az100, two trips makes it a real winner on a school night. Scope used rules in the best scope. Open minded to how az75 performs, but using the pan handle for tracking on planets with the az100 does not have the finess needed IMHO. 

You too see the advantages of the simpler mounts.
On the pan handle, the Vixen clamp has the same 3 holes as on the bigger D clamp for the AZ100,
Rowan have indicated that a handle is in the pipeline.

1 hour ago, John said:

I'm not at all surprised by that.

But ........ it still leaves a niche for a quality mid-range alt-az mount that DOES have slow motion controls.

Indeed it does, but if the manual push mounts are good enough, like this one looks to be, why have a slow motion control?
Something I think our thoughts diverge on @John, but diverging thoughts are good.
I truly believe that a well built mount with all you desire just cannot be made at the price point you also desire.
 

1 hour ago, Deadlake said:

Given the az75 with slow slo mo’s would be close the the az100 in price I wonder what could be done to make the az100 lighter, maybe a carbon bottom part. More expense but in the US quite a large number of observers who would like to reduce the weight of there kit due to age so sure there is a market there. I saved 4 kg using a lighter T-Pod tripod over the planet, but maybe other options.

I am not aware of Rowan using Carbon Fibre in any products, perhaps they do, but they didn't show me anything made from it at my visit.
One of the AZ100 plus points is its size, solid build and mass, all very useful with a reasonable (i.e. very desirable) larger scope.

 

[Alan White]

2 hours ago, Stephenstargazer said:

The nagging question for AZ100 users is should I have waited, or even do I need both!! 

I know Stu's replied to the same thing, but hey, I am thinking the same and own neither presently......just don't let Mrs W know that train of thought - Ah, I just did, dratt!

 

7 minutes ago, Stu said:

That’s where I am at the moment! 😱They offer different things whilst offering the same things.
The 75 has the portability and grab and go, the 100 has the slow motion controls and tracking motor potential. Both offer fantastic stability, smooth motion and push to. Simples.

Worryingly similar spending thoughts in the Stu household as well, have you broken the news to Mrs Stu yet @Stu

[AdeKing]

6 hours ago, Alan White said:

I have to say Planetary or Lunar needing slow motion or tracking?  
Again we all vary, I do both with all push to mounts at high power no problems.
I see that this mount will make that more pleasurable and deliver better than some others have.

I will also answer @AdeKing about other AltAz and issues with stiction etc.
Perhaps my experience with a number of them on the quest for the right one has bestowed a 'special skill', but I think not,
The AZ75 is far easier in use after careful ballance and was a joy in use last night.
I swapped from the 30mm APM UFF to the 10mm XW without balance changes required, I think the step down insize to the Nagler Zoom or HR might have required a slight ballance change, but that's AltAZ mounts, you just get on with it.
Some folks cannot cope with that, that's fine, we all differ.

Thanks Alan, its good to hear that the motion is nice and smooth and that it was a joy to use.

I've never had an issue with balancing on the Altitude axis, its always been an issue with where to position the counterweight to minimise stiction in the AZ axis as I really can't abide stiction on the AZ axis, it never seems to be an issue in Alt..

I suspect that the AZ75 is just in a different class to the Ercole and EZTouch mounts I've had previously, problem is that reading these reports is helping me to convince myself that I need one for portability purposes darn it.

Ade

[Alan White]

@AdeKing It is smooth in both axis and it must have some stiction, I am not seeing it, I think because it is so well machined and the materials used.

One the need for a more portable mount, I am sorry, the AZ75 is so much lighter.
But the AZ100 has other benefits of its own, a different class of mount. 

Can you run your f11 100mm across to me, then you and  I can see how the mount handles it ?
Which I think will be vert well indeed.
I joke of course as its not just round the corner between us after all.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Alan White

[johninderby]

With all the interest in a smaller mount with slo-mo and given how well Rowan listen just what might be in the pipeline for future release. ?🤔🤔🤔

[Stu]

4 minutes ago, johninderby said:

With all the interest in a smaller mount with slo-mo and given how well Rowan listen just what might be in the pipeline for future release. ?🤔🤔🤔

I suspect it would need to forgo the encoder option perhaps to keep to the same weight, size and cost but even then there is only so much saving to be made. I don’t necessarily see it happening but who knows.

[John]

43 minutes ago, Alan White said:

....Something I think our thoughts diverge on @John, but diverging thoughts are good.

 

 

 

I don't think we diverge that much Alan - I've spent much of my observing over the years "nudging" dob mounts or using Giro type mounts so slow motion controls are not essential IMHO. They are nice to have in a number of circumstances but if the motion of the mount is smooth (and becomes familiar) I can and have certainly managed just fine without on many occasions 

Where I do seem to diverge from many is on push-to functionality which just does not interest me. But the AZ75 has the potential for that for those who would like it