The Edwardian Experience - First Light on a Clarkson 3 inch.

[SuburbanMak]

Of course it’s far from really being “first light” - this thing is about 120 years old! 

Having managed to get this really quite large scope riding on an AZ GTi through the highly scientific means of shoving some foam rubber into some 80mm Skywatcher rings, I was eager to get out for a quick first look last night.

For now I have only the terrestrial tube which is a very long compound affair that rights the image and based on the size of the moon image I’d say is delivering around 60x magnification - am quite sure I’ll get better performance with more suitable eyepieces.  
I have ordered a RAS - 1.25” adapter which is being made by Barry at Beacon Hill Telescopes (who is btw a lovely fella with whom I had a fascinating chat along the way) . I have a couple of RAS thread eyepieces on the horizon too & will spend many happy hours combing the auctions for more (there’s a widefield called “the Comet” that was made for the 1910 Halley apparition that I’d love to get my hands on) along with an approprIate finder scope (which is much needed as this is a major pea-shooter), period diagonal and even a brass Herschel wedge, though not sure I’d be brave enough to actually use that one…
 

Meantime the signs are very promising however.  Great views of the moon and not a hint of CA to be seen (this thing is about f16 and 4 feet long!)  Although a bit cumbersome due to length, at 3.7 kg it’s surprisingly light for all that brass. The tube reminds me of those WW1 shell casings you see turned into umbrella stands. 
 

Focussing is pretty smooth with a draw tube for rough focusing then a lovely brass R&P for fine. 
 

Saturn looked magic, tiny but clean separation of the rings and occasional hint of the Cassini division. A couple of moons visible. 
 

Jupiter was showing both equatorial bands with the N more prominent and the 4 Galilean moons were gratifyingly sharp.  
 

I was glad of the relatively low altitude of the moon & planets as straight through viewing is a bit tough on the back with this length! 
 

Did try a star test - round but fuzzy rather than rings. I’ll reserve judgement until I can do this with a reference modern EP (Baader Classic Orthos will go nicely with this scope I think).  I have a suspicion that the objective is a gem. 

Overall it’s great fun to use and looks amazing! 

I’ll add to this thread as I observe & build this fabulous old OTA out into a period rig. I may have to grow a giant moustache and observe in tweed plus fours whilst smoking a pipe to complete the experience. 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by SuburbanMak

[johninderby]

Some I R Poyser brass tube rings would do nicely although you might need a second mortgage to pay for them. 😁

[Nik271]

Nice! Just beware, it's a slippery slope, soon you may look like this chap 🙂

 

 

[badhex]

Genuine smile across my face after reading this. I can't say I've ever been tempted to start collecting the reeealllly old stuff (my oldest scope is a Charles Frank) but I will follow this thread (and the progress of your giant handlebar moustache) closely! 

Edited July 24, 2021 by badhex

[Cosmic Geoff]

A few years ago I acquired a vintage brass scope of similar proportions - a 70mm Ross.  IIRC it had been sold to its previous owner by Charles Frank as an astro scope, complete with equatorial mount and surveyor style tripod. I did not fancy the mount (incomplete) or the tripod (overpriced IMHO) so just drove away with the scope for a bargain price. I found that it would  accept modern 1.25" eyepieces with the aid of a piece of card (the original eyepiece being a large Huygenian of ~38mm diameter).

I bought an AZ-4 to mount it on via a dovetail bar and custom rings, and found the optical performance was superb. I can't remember what it weighs but a EQ3-2 or AZ-4 was the minimum mount for it, costing a lot more than the scope did. However I have only used it occasionally as my modern 127mm Mak has a better performance and is far easier to manage.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Cosmic Geoff

[Dave Lloyd]

Beautiful! 

[SuburbanMak]

2 hours ago, Nik271 said:

Nice! Just beware, it's a slippery slope, soon you may look like this chap 🙂

 

 

This chap looks absolutely splendid - that is definitely the look I was going for! 

[SuburbanMak]

46 minutes ago, badhex said:

Genuine smile across my face after reading this. I can't say I've ever been tempted to start collecting the reeealllly old stuff (my oldest scope is a Charles Frank) but I will follow this thread (and the progress of your giant handlebar moustache) closely! 

Thank you - one of the RAS eyepieces I have a line on is a Charles Frank Suoer Wide which I believe is a 44mm.  

[badhex]

1 hour ago, SuburbanMak said:

Thank you - one of the RAS eyepieces I have a line on is a Charles Frank Suoer Wide which I believe is a 44mm.  

This one, per chance? (here threaded onto a helical focuser). I have the same eyepiece but never worked out the focal length, and in fact had not realised my old Charles Frank focuser was RAS threaded (it had 0.965" push fit sleeve screwed into it) until just before I moved countries and everything went into storage. Ultra-wide is certainly a stretch though! 

[Highburymark]

11 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

Of course it’s far from really being “first light” - this thing is about 120 years old! 

Having managed to get this really quite large scope riding on an AZ GTi through the highly scientific means of shoving some foam rubber into some 80mm Skywatcher rings, I was eager to get out for a quick first look last night.

For now I have only the terrestrial tube which is a very long compound affair that rights the image and based on the size of the moon image I’d say is delivering around 60x magnification - am quite sure I’ll get better performance with more suitable eyepieces.  
I have ordered a RAS - 1.25” adapter which is being made by Barry at Beacon Hill Telescopes (who is btw a lovely fella with whom I had a fascinating chat along the way) . I have a couple of RAS thread eyepieces on the horizon too & will spend many happy hours combing the auctions for more (there’s a widefield called “the Comet” that was made for the 1910 Halley apparition that I’d love to get my hands on) along with an approprIate finder scope (which is much needed as this is a major pea-shooter), period diagonal and even a brass Herschel wedge, though not sure I’d be brave enough to actually use that one…
 

Meantime the signs are very promising however.  Great views of the moon and not a hint of CA to be seen (this thing is about f16 and 4 feet long!)  Although a bit cumbersome due to length, at 3.7 kg it’s surprisingly light for all that brass. The tube reminds me of those WW1 shell casings you see turned into umbrella stands. 
 

Focussing is pretty smooth with a draw tube for rough focusing then a lovely brass R&P for fine. 
 

Saturn looked magic, tiny but clean separation of the rings and occasional hint of the Cassini division. A couple of moons visible. 
 

Jupiter was showing both equatorial bands with the N more prominent and the 4 Galilean moons were gratifyingly sharp.  
 

I was glad of the relatively low altitude of the moon & planets as straight through viewing is a bit tough on the back with this length! 
 

Did try a star test - round but fuzzy rather than rings. I’ll reserve judgement until I can do this with a reference modern EP (Baader Classic Orthos will go nicely with this scope I think).  I have a suspicion that the objective is a gem. 

Overall it’s great fun to use and looks amazing! 

I’ll add to this thread as I observe & build this fabulous old OTA out into a period rig. I may have to grow a giant moustache and observe in tweed plus fours whilst smoking a pipe to complete the experience. 

 

Wonderful report! Look forward to further news

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

4 hours ago, Nik271 said:

Nice! Just beware, it's a slippery slope, soon you may look like this chap 🙂

 

 

That observing chair might just hold me. Are they in stock at FLO?

 

Great report, however I'm concerned your new look tailoring bill might cost more than the telescope!

[RT65CB-SWL]

That is beautiful. A set of brass tube rings would be a nice finishing touch.

12 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

...hope you isolated or disconnected the light-switch! 😁😉

 

Slightly off topic,.. Below is an image of my sighting telescope [c.1916] with sliding dew shield...

note: a blob of Blu-Tack stopped it from rolling/falling off. 

 

...and an RAS threaded e/p [date unknown] in a 1.25" adapter made for me Beacon Hill Telescopes [c.1998/99]

  

Edited July 24, 2021 by Philip R

[SuburbanMak]

3 hours ago, badhex said:

This one, per chance? (here threaded onto a helical focuser). I have the same eyepiece but never worked out the focal length, and in fact had not realised my old Charles Frank focuser was RAS threaded (it had 0.965" push fit sleeve screwed into it) until just before I moved countries and everything went into storage. Ultra-wide is certainly a stretch though! 

Yes I think it is one of those - will be getting from another SGLer the next time they are in my neck of the woods.  I had figured “Ultra Wide” might be an overstatement by modern standards…

[SuburbanMak]

2 hours ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

That observing chair might just hold me. Are they in stock at FLO?

 

Great report, however I'm concerned your new look tailoring bill might cost more than the telescope!

Observing stair… 

[SuburbanMak]

2 hours ago, Philip R said:

That is beautiful. A set of brass tube rings would be a nice finishing touch.

...hope you isolated or disconnected the light-switch! 😁😉

 

Slightly off topic,.. Below is an image of my sighting telescope [c.1916] with sliding dew shield...

note: a blob of Blu-Tack stopped it from rolling/falling off. 

 

...and an RAS threaded e/p [date unknown] in a 1.25" adapter made for me Beacon Hill Telescopes [c.1998/99]

  

Super old spotting scope - I think most of the optics manufacturers were diverted to wartime duties and did quite well out of it - Broadhurst & Clarkson opened additional factories and showrooms during WW1. 

[badhex]

4 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

Yes I think it is one of those - will be getting from another SGLer the next time they are in my neck of the woods.  I had figured “Ultra Wide” might be an overstatement by modern standards…

From what I remember of its very limited use, it's not bad, and tbh I feel that one must judge these venerable items by different rules anyway. When you do get it, please do let me know if you can confirm the focal length - it certainly isn't written on it anywhere. From my research at the time I think this may have been ex-military as was much of the Charles Frank stuff, IIRC something to do with tank viewports possibly? 

 

[badhex]

4 hours ago, SuburbanMak said:

Super old spotting scope - I think most of the optics manufacturers were diverted to wartime duties and did quite well out of it - Broadhurst & Clarkson opened additional factories and showrooms during WW1. 

The same is true in reverse as well. The finder on my Charles Frank is a WW2 Aldis illuminated gunsight, and from what I can tell this is how the scope was supplied, so they clearly had a lot of ex-military stock to play with.

[badhex]

12 hours ago, Nik271 said:

Nice! Just beware, it's a slippery slope, soon you may look like this chap 🙂

 

 

Is this Lowell at the eponymous Observatory? 

[JeremyS]

Fascinating stuff @SuburbanMak 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[Nik271]

10 hours ago, badhex said:

Is this Lowell at the eponymous Observatory? 

Yes it's Lowell with a slightly bigger refractor from the same period 😀

[SuburbanMak]

After a bit of tinkering yesterday I realised that if I removed the draw-focus tube the aperture left is a nice tight 1.25”.  

I didn’t expect to be able to achieve focus as I’d taken out a good deal of length and this was indeed the case when I tried a standard Skywatcher diagonal.  
 

The Tak prism however has a shorter light path and is held nice and snug, certainly secure enough for minimum glass EPs.  Very pleased to achieve focus with a 32MM TS Optics Plossl and Baader Classic Orthos of 18, 10 & 6mm.   This set plus a Barlow give a good working range of magnifications - estimate with the length I’ve removed I am now working at f15 so this would mean 35x, 63x, 114x & 190x. 

All I need are some clear skies - got the very briefest of holes late last night and was able to see tiny Jupiter and Saturn through cloud with the 32mm, just enough to confirm it was all crisp and working before the cloud thickened.  Turning behind me I was able to get a short view of Mizar which was splitting beautifully from 35x & up and more importantly showing some nice airy discs and even diffraction rings. 
 

Better order those plus-fours, we are in business…

Edited July 25, 2021 by SuburbanMak

[badhex]

Very nice! Here's a thought. Maybe if you have the skills or you could find someone who does, you could build you a new AZ-GTi box out of brass or something brass-like (a bit steampunk style but without all the unnecessary cosmetic gears etc)? Berlebach matched wood to replace the skywatcher pillar shouldn't be too hard to construct, and you're most of the way there to a period piece with modern useful upgrades! 

[SuburbanMak]

I’ve been bringing the Clarkson 3in to a state of operational readiness today with a more workable mount and a temporary finder. 
 

My long term plan is to use this in “period mode” and to that end I’ve amassed a few RAS eyepieces and a couple of possible finderscopes.  While I mull over the best way to mount these however (and put off the moment where I have drill the tube to fit something), I want to use it more regularly with modern minimum glass (BCOs & Tak prism) and find out what it can do on a range of objects. 

I have used the integral threaded 1/4 in bolts of the original mount and drilled out a dovetail bar to fit them. It needed a good deal of filing to expose enough thread to be secure but the result is solid, although I can hear my old metalwork teacher berating the lack of neatness in my notches! 
 

It puts the focuser at right angles to where it should be but it’s not too bad to use. I elected to stick an RDF mount on with pads - nothing that a bit of brasso won’t sort out once I want to fit a more in-keeping solution. It’s all aligned on chimney pot testing. The OTA balances well and it’s riding very smoothly on the AZ GTi. 
 

All in all I think it has a purposeful blend of antique and modern look about it  
 

Looking forward to some lunar, planetary and doubles exploration as soon as skies allow. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by SuburbanMak

[badhex]

Amazing stuff! Looking great.

A couple of thoughts that spring to mind for the longer term. If l you wanted a dovetail that is a (closer) colour match, one of the William Optics gold anodised dovetails might work - plus they have a long slot over one half instead of set holes at specific distances so no drilling would be required. They don't have the raised edges though so you might have to shim it somehow. I do quite like the black and brass though!

Re finder mounting - rather than have to drill the tube, perhaps you could find a very thin/lightweight tube ring with standard bolt holes, onto which you can mount any finder shoe you like.

[saac]

On 24/07/2021 at 08:22, Nik271 said:

Nice! Just beware, it's a slippery slope, soon you may look like this chap 🙂

 

 

"First I got permission for a pier  and then I build this sweet little observing chair.  Thinking about automating it all now"