RDF annoyances

[Dantooine]

I really like using rdf’s on their own. The lowest setting can be sometimes too bright. I think when I get some time I may dismantle one and see what can be done. I’m pretty sure that if a resistor with a higher value is used to replace the original one this could be the answer to getting more usable brightness settings. 

[John]

29 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I really like using rdf’s on their own. The lowest setting can be sometimes too bright. I think when I get some time I may dismantle one and see what can be done. I’m pretty sure that if a resistor with a higher value is used to replace the original one this could be the answer to getting more usable brightness settings. 

I think many RDF's we use are based on rifle sights so originally intended primarily for daytime use. The Rigel and Telrad finders were developed by astronomers.

I would like to try a Tele Vue Starbeam sometime and see whether their price is justified:

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/tele-vue-starbeam-finders.html

 

[HollyHound]

I too am loving the little 6x30 finders I have now on the Mak and C5... I forget how wide a field they produce and only the other night I didn't realise I was looking at the whole belt of Orion plus a good area around... really useful and almost don't need the RDF now on those scopes, although it's still useful.

32 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

The lowest setting can be sometimes too bright. I think when I get some time I may dismantle one and see what can be done. I’m pretty sure that if a resistor with a higher value is used to replace the original one this could be the answer to getting more usable brightness settings. 

I find the Telrad is easier to set to a lower brightness setting than the Rigel, so would be interested to see if you do manage to get it less bright🤞 

[AlexK]

31 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I really like using rdf’s on their own. The lowest setting can be sometimes too bright. I think when I get some time I may dismantle one and see what can be done. I’m pretty sure that if a resistor with a higher value is used to replace the original one this could be the answer to getting more usable brightness settings. 

The easiest trick is to discharge the battery a bit with a higher current load. The second easiest is to cover the LED window with some nail polish (along the way it is possible to improve its aperture as well (like cover the window heavily, then scrap a tiny hole).

[AlexK]

11 minutes ago, John said:

I would like to try a Tele Vue Starbeam sometime and see whether their price is justified.

$400 for an RDF? LOL! C'mon! Even though I'm making more than that a day, I'd rather live pointing by sighting along the OTA all my life than feed this scam scheme.

Telrad is a most solid choice, and definitely has many more useful properties than any RDF.

Edited January 31, 2021 by AlexK

[mikeDnight]

I have to say I really liked the starbeam on my NP101. The flip mirror may seem like a gimmick,  but in use, to see a constellation in the mirror with the red dot superimposed showing you exactly where you're aiming, was a real pleasure. I agree its over priced, but that's Televue to the core, everything is twice its actual worth.  At the other extreme is the Telrad. A terrific finder, but cheap and nasty, and as ugly as sin.

[John]

30 minutes ago, AlexK said:

$400 for an RDF? LOL! C'mon! Even though I'm making more than that a day, I'd rather live pointing by sighting along the OTA all my life than feed this scam scheme.

Telrad is a most solid choice, and definitely has many more useful properties than any RDF.

Like most astro accessories there are a wide range of options and prices of finders available.

What's a days wages in return for a lifetimes excellent finding anyway ? 

I'd still like to try one.

 

[AlexK]

58 minutes ago, John said:

What's a days wages in return for a lifetimes excellent finding anyway ? 

I'd still like to try one.

Sure thing, go ahead. That's just cheap me. Though you can trust me on one thing: it's no different (and actually worse due to its miniscule aperture, impossible to reach for wiping) than my 20 years old $5 shipped off eBay from China RDF which is still kicking even on my 12ga shotgun (these are sold for ~$35 nowadays):

 

Seriously. Just make sure you can return that nonsense. For $400 you can get an amazing Nitrogen filled true-zero-parallax internally alignable holographic gunsight:



But I'd rather get another 100 deg EP for that money.

Edited January 31, 2021 by AlexK

[jock1958]

46 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

At the other extreme is the Telrad. A terrific finder, but cheap and nasty, and as ugly as sin.

Agree with everything you say Mike, love mine and it’s the mainstay of my finder equipment but it sure is ugly, I think the designer chose functionality over aesthetics!
What about getting a rattle can of matching Tak / Skywatcher white and give it a quick spray job?? just a thought 🤣 

[John]

11 minutes ago, AlexK said:

Sure thing, go ahead. That's just cheap me. Though you can trust me on one thing: it's no different (and actually worse due to its miniscule aperture, impossible to reach for wiping) than my 20 years old $5 shipped off eBay from China RDF which is still kicking even on my 12ga shotgun (these are sold for ~$35 nowadays):

 

Seriously. Just make sure you can return that nonsense. For $400 you can get an amazing Nitrogen filled true-zero-parallax internally alignable holographic gunsight.
But I'd rather get another 100 deg EP for that money.

I have had a few of those those RDF's over the years - a bit too bright on all the settings for astronomy IMHO

The Tele Vue device does at least have some sort of dew shield.

That's an odd looking scope in the 2nd picture - very small aperture ?

 

 

 

[Dantooine]

1 hour ago, HollyHound said:

I too am loving the little 6x30 finders I have now on the Mak and C5... I forget how wide a field they produce and only the other night I didn't realise I was looking at the whole belt of Orion plus a good area around... really useful and almost don't need the RDF now on those scopes, although it's still useful.

I find the Telrad is easier to set to a lower brightness setting than the Rigel, so would be interested to see if you do manage to get it less bright🤞 

I don’t find the Rigel difficult in use. It does go pretty dim and is variable. The single red dot finders like the vixen or William optics seem to only go down by pre-set clicks from 7-1. Even down to the minimum setting it can be bright enough to hide your target. These are the type I would like to try replacing the output resistor to the LED. I would imagine they are the tiny square type of resistor which can be a fiddle. I tried the baader sky surfer v and just didn’t like it at all. As for the televue, it’s a ton of cash and I’m  not convinced of its reliability to hold zero. Maybe some who has one can chip in the information on stability. 

[JeremyS]

I found the Baader SkySurfer III disappointing optically and mechanically. But at least it’s not as ugly as a Telrad 😊

 

[HollyHound]

2 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I don’t find the Rigel difficult in use. It does go pretty dim and is variable. The single red dot finders like the vixen or William optics seem to only go down by pre-set clicks from 7-1. Even down to the minimum setting it can be bright enough to hide your target. These are the type I would like to try replacing the output resistor to the LED. I would imagine they are the tiny square type of resistor which can be a fiddle. I tried the baader sky surfer v and just didn’t like it at all. As for the televue, it’s a ton of cash and I’m  not convinced of its reliability to hold zero. Maybe some who has one can chip in the information on stability. 

Ah yes, I do like the “pulsating” mode of the Rigel, that works fine for me. I haven’t tried the Baader SkySurfer V, but do have a couple of SkySurfer III and they are actually ok, but again, never quite get dim enough.

[HollyHound]

4 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

I found the Baader SkySurfer III disappointing optically and mechanically. But at least it’s not as ugly as a Telrad 😊

The SkySurfer III I use on my ST80, but only as a quick “get me into the area”, for which it’s ok. 
 

The Telrad is indeed big and ugly, but it’s great on the 10” dob 😊

[Dantooine]

38 minutes ago, AlexK said:

Sure thing, go ahead. That's just cheap me. Though you can trust me on one thing: it's no different (and actually worse due to its miniscule aperture, impossible to reach for wiping) than my 20 years old $5 shipped off eBay from China RDF which is still kicking even on my 12ga shotgun (these are sold for ~$35 nowadays):

 

Seriously. Just make sure you can return that nonsense. For $400 you can get an amazing Nitrogen filled true-zero-parallax internally alignable holographic gunsight:



But I'd rather get another 100 deg EP for that money.

In the Uk we wouldn’t dream of putting any sight on a shotgun 🤣 there’s a brass bead on the end of the barrel. To be honest (and no disrespect to American shooters) it would be laughed at in Britain. 

[HollyHound]

43 minutes ago, jock1958 said:

Agree with everything you say Mike, love mine and it’s the mainstay of my finder equipment but it sure is ugly, I think the designer chose functionality over aesthetics!
What about getting a rattle can of matching Tak / Skywatcher white and give it a quick spray job?? just a thought 🤣 

I would imagine it should be feasible to create a finder as accurate as the Telrad but in a smaller and more aesthetically pleasing package 👍

[HollyHound]

2 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

In the Uk we wouldn’t dream of putting any sight on a shotgun 🤣 there’s a brass bead on the end of the barrel. To be honest (and no disrespect to American shooters) it would be laughed at in Britain. 

I never was any good with accuracy on either rifles or handgun, give me the guided stuff anyway.... target, fire, track and forget 👍

[JamesF]

2 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

I would imagine it should be feasible to create a finder as accurate as the Telrad but in a smaller and more aesthetically pleasing package 👍

There is the Rigel Quikfinder, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to describe it as "aesthetically pleasing"

James

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

I'm quite happy with a solo RDF depending on what I'm about to look for, or if aligning a GoTo mount. Lunar and easy DSOs, a red dot is all you need. Harder stuff, then both a RDF and RACI finder.

Interestingly, noone seems to have asked the OP how they look through the the red dot sight?

I ask because closing one eye will introduce a parallax effect. Positioning your head well back and opening both eyes keeps the dot where it's supposed to be.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by ScouseSpaceCadet
Speeling

[JamesF]

Just now, JamesF said:

There is the Rigel Quikfinder, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to describe it as "aesthetically pleasing"

Ah, I see that has already been mentioned

James

[Dantooine]

1 minute ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

I'm quite happy with a solo RDF depending on what I'm about to look for, or if aligning a GoTo mount. Lunar and easy DSOs, a red dot is all you need. Harder stuff, then both a RDF and RACI finder.

Interestingly, noone seems to have asked the OP how they look through the the red dot site?

I ask because closing one eye will introduce a parallax effect. Positioning your head well back and opening both eyes keeps the dot where it's suppposed to be.

 

I find 2 eyes works well with rdf. One eye for the dot and the other for the target. 

[John]

9 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

I found the Baader SkySurfer III disappointing optically and mechanically. But at least it’s not as ugly as a Telrad 😊

 

That one is basic but the cost is low, the window has some dew protection and is larger than some and the "dot" is not as much of a "sploge" as some.

One of the worst RDF's that I have used is the Tele Vue Qwik-Point which I had on a Tele Vue Ranger refractor. It was barely usable in all honesty. Cheap but not nice. No wonder the Tele Vue lettering started to wear off so quickly - perhaps it was embarrassed

 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

2 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I find 2 eyes works well with rdf. One eye for the dot and the other for the target. 

That's the correct posture. Of course this also needs to be done when aligning the red dot finder. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best... 😉

 

[John]

7 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

I would imagine it should be feasible to create a finder as accurate as the Telrad but in a smaller and more aesthetically pleasing package 👍

It can be done. This is 50% better looking

[JeremyS]

1 minute ago, John said:

That one is basic but the cost is low, the window has some dew protection and is larger than some and the "dot" is not as much of a "sploge" as some.

One of the worst RDF's that I have used is the Tele Vue Qwik-Point which I had on a Tele Vue Ranger refractor. It was barely usable in all honesty. Cheap but not nice. No wonder the Tele Vue lettering started to wear off so quickly - perhaps it was embarrassed

 

The Baader Skysurfer V is optically and mechanically far superior to the III. Much more expensive. And whilst not at the Telrad end of the ugly spectrum, it’s a big brute.