Velcro (sticking it to devices, or not)

[jadcx]

OK, I admit defeat.  I can't stick my Pegasus Astro box to my AZ-Gti using sticky back velcro.  I'm sure this should be simple?

Vecro (spiky/hook side) sticks to the AZ-Gti - yes, it's on the white paintwork and seems firmly attached.

Velcro (soft fluffy side) stick to Pegagsus box - yes, apparently, but... ultimately no.

Box sticks to mount - yes, only for about 30 minutes, so not really.  The velcro stayed attached to itself, but peeled off the Pegasus box.  Pegasus box is on the floor, velcro is still (both sides) happy attached to the mount.  So I re-applied, not with the as-supplied stick back glue, but with a reasonable smearing of Gorilla glue.  Don't worry, it's only a few inches onto the soft carpet, it's not harmed.

Box sticks to mount - yes, this time for about 10 hours, so no.  Pegasus box is back on the floor, velcro is still happily attached to the mount.

So what am i missing?  Is it the milled aluminium Pegasus surface that rejects glueing?  Did I buy cheap fake Velcro?  (I may have, I don't remember, but surely the Gorilla glue should have worked?)

Please help.

[DaveL59]

Does the pegasus get warm/hot? That could well result it it becoming unstuck from the velcro and falling off.

 

[bottletopburly]

You want 3M dual lock https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Dual-Lock-Reclosable-Fastener-SJ3550/?N=5002385+3293242274&preselect=3293786499&rt=rud

[Zermelo]

With velcro. I find that it's usually too effective.
I've just made a dew shield and tried sticking the velcro, but it just lifts off when you try to undo it. I've now sewn it instead, but even then it's starting to strain the thread. For most applications it doesn't need to be that strong.

[TerryMcK]

This is the best stuff I have found

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01M7P18HP

I have it in several places on my mount and it works in low temperatures and high humidity with absolutely no issues. There are lesser velcro products that are not really intended for outside usage.

[jadcx]

1 hour ago, DaveL59 said:

Does the pegasus get warm/hot? That could well result it it becoming unstuck from the velcro and falling off.

 

It's warm-is, but not hot.

[jadcx]

38 minutes ago, bottletopburly said:

You want 3M dual lock https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Dual-Lock-Reclosable-Fastener-SJ3550/?N=5002385+3293242274&preselect=3293786499&rt=rud

 

11 minutes ago, TerryMcK said:

This is the best stuff I have found

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01M7P18HP

I have it in several places on my mount and it works in low temperatures and high humidity with absolutely no issues. There are lesser velcro products that are not really intended for outside usage.

Hmmm - they both look strong, and more 'industrial' that what I have currently.  But which is better?  There's only one way to find out.....

[TerryMcK]

My PI gets hot about 45 to 50 C (according to its internal data probes) as the box itself is a heatsink for the PI. The velcro I linked to holds fine on my PI and is relatively cheap.

Edited November 26, 2020 by TerryMcK

[Skipper Billy]

If its anodised aluminium you might struggle to get Velcro to stick to it - 3M is the stickiest.

I am sure the chemists amongst us can tell us why but in my experience, until it has aged, very little sticks really well to anodised aluminium.

 

[jadcx]

Just now, Skipper Billy said:

If its anodised aluminium you might struggle to get Velcro to stick to it - 3M is the stickiest.

I am sure the chemists amongst us can tell us why but in my experience, until it has aged, very little sticks really well to anodised aluminium.

 

Yes I wondered if this might be a factor.  The Pegasus box is very shiny and new, not been outside yet.

[Tiny Clanger]

I'd try some experiments with whatever glue/sticky pads/double sided tape you have handy.

That's what I did when I used some self adhesive velcro to make wrap around dew shields for my 'scopes . The dew shield material is 3mm closed cell foam (I intentionally bought more than I needed to make the heritage dob. a shroud) and the self adhesive stuff on the velcro removed form the foam with less force than the velcro took to separate. I tried PVA , shoe goo ( a great adhesive for various plastics as well as repairing shoe soles ) leather glue ( why not ? you never know) , some contact adhesive, photo spray mount and hot glue gun stuff, as well as a few types of double sided tape and pads I had .

On a scrap strip of foam , predictably most glues either failed utterly or melted the foam , but what surprised me was that the hot glue gun didn't destroy the foam, and did grab the velcro backing strongly. So I used that, and have had no problem with the velcro lifting or the foam tearing , and I'm not being terribly delicate with removing the shields after use . I just put a thin layer of hot glue right on top of the glue already on the velcro.

[wulfrun]

Shiny and new isn't usually a good surface for sticky stuff. If you're willing to deface your new gear, abrade the area with some emery cloth/scotchbrite or similar, clean with alcohol (not the booze sort!), allow to dry and apply the velcro. You'll have a lot better chance that way.

[jadcx]

Just now, wulfrun said:

Shiny and new isn't usually a good surface for sticky stuff. If you're willing to deface your new gear, abrade the area with some emery cloth/scotchbrite or similar, clean with alcohol (not the booze sort!), allow to dry and apply the velcro. You'll have a lot better chance that way.

Yeah 😕 I did clean with alcohol first, but I just can't bring myself to get the emery paper, not on such lovely blue aluminium.  But I totally understand that it wold most likely be much more successful.

[bottletopburly]

If 3M won’t stick and be surprised if it didn’t a little bit of evo stick where pad sits stick down once tak dry 

[jadcx]

4 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

I'd try some experiments with whatever glue/sticky pads/double sided tape you have handy.

That's what I did when I used some self adhesive velcro to make wrap around dew shields for my 'scopes . The dew shield material is 3mm closed cell foam (I intentionally bought more than I needed to make the heritage dob. a shroud) and the self adhesive stuff on the velcro removed form the foam with less force than the velcro took to separate. I tried PVA , shoe goo ( a great adhesive for various plastics as well as repairing shoe soles ) leather glue ( why not ? you never know) , some contact adhesive, photo spray mount and hot glue gun stuff, as well as a few types of double sided tape and pads I had .

On a scrap strip of foam , predictably most glues either failed utterly or melted the foam , but what surprised me was that the hot glue gun didn't destroy the foam, and did grab the velcro backing strongly. So I used that, and have had no problem with the velcro lifting or the foam tearing , and I'm not being terribly delicate with removing the shields after use . I just put a thin layer of hot glue right on top of the glue already on the velcro.

I don't have lots of options to try here.  However, on closer inspection, I did already try glueing on top of the glue that came with the velcro, and now I'm wondering if this is the weakest point.  There was glue residue left on the Pegasus, so it wasn't completely failing there.  If this is, as I'm now suspecting, cheap stuff, maybe I just need proper supplies.

[wulfrun]

3 minutes ago, jadcx said:

Yeah 😕 I did clean with alcohol first, but I just can't bring myself to get the emery paper, not on such lovely blue aluminium.  But I totally understand that it wold most likely be much more successful.

Ah ok, so not just shiny but anodized or painted. I can see your reluctance! Isn't there somewhere else or somewhere unobtrusive?

[jadcx]

1 minute ago, wulfrun said:

Ah ok, so not just shiny but anodized or painted. I can see your reluctance! Isn't there somewhere else or somewhere unobtrusive?

No, it's blue all over.  And the mounting geometry restricts my options too.

[wulfrun]

A photo of the relevant parts might come in handy, showing what you're trying to achieve. There's likely to be a solution somewhere.

[Tiny Clanger]

4 minutes ago, wulfrun said:

A photo of the relevant parts might come in handy, showing what you're trying to achieve. There's likely to be a solution somewhere.

Yes, I'm wondering if some sort of pocket type arrangement might work to hold the device without having to damage the surface , but with zero idea of its shape/dimensions/controls/cables whatever I can't be much help ...

[happycamper]

I use Velcro everywhere on my astro-equipment, but, i always let the adhesive bonds strengthen overnight before i test the velcro. 'Never had a problem.

Edited November 27, 2020 by happycamper

[jadcx]

I've attached some pictures of what I am trying to achieve.  I think the better Velcro will be my first option, but any clever pocket type or other arrangements gratefully considered.

 

[wulfrun]

Yes, it does look like velcro is one of the better ideas - just better velcro, or better adhesive on it anyway. One idea I can see: use 3 smaller pieces on the three corners of the blue box BUT remove the screws first and put them through the velcro afterwards. Then put a small piece of felt or whatever over the actual screw-heads - as protection against them scratching things. At least that would stop it parting company completely. I'd say 3 pieces on the corners would give enough security.

Can't think of anything else, maybe someone else can apply better lateral-thinking though.

EDIT: actually you wouldn't need the felt as the screw-heads would only be against the other half of the velcro

Edited November 27, 2020 by wulfrun
typo

[markse68]

Stick it to the more horizontal black surface on the back of the AZ-GTi?

Or cover the whole back of the blue thing with 2” wide super velcro- the extra  surface area should help 👍

Mark

Edited November 27, 2020 by markse68