How important is the laptop?

[nephilim]

Hi, 
Im in the very early stages of building up an AP set up (I have the mount...........😃) After a failed attempt at this several years ago trying to save money wherever I could, I realised a little too late that AP is not really a pastime that benefits from 'doing it on the cheap'. although I have seen that it can be done it will make it much much harder, as if it wasnt hard enough😬)
Obviously I would still like to save money where its possible & as the title suggests, just how important is the spec of the laptop used as the capture/ control hardware. I'm looking at a new, upto date laptop , Windows 10, USB 3.1 etc but just at the lower end of the market price wise.
The link ive posted is just a random one at around the price im looking at. All my image processing will be done on my desktop PC which is  high end. 
If something higher end is needed (I may be missing something but I cant see why) then i'll spend the extra £££ but if I can save a couple of hundred ££ then that money 'saved' can go towards things which I know are important  scope/ camera etc.
  https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/asus-e410ma-14-laptop-intel-celeron-128-gb-emmc-blue-10209188-pdt.html

Thanks
Steve

Edited October 26, 2020 by nephilim

[Viktiste]

Not important at all, I would say. 

Controlling the camera/mount etc. is not processor intensive. But USB3 is nice to have, and the more USB ports the better. I bought an old used one, works like a charm. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Viktiste

[nephilim]

15 minutes ago, Viktiste said:

Not important at all, I would say. 

Controlling the camera/mount etc. is not processor intensive. But USB3 is nice to have, and the more USB ports the better. I bought an old used one, works like a charm. 

Thanks Viktiste, that's what I was thinking but I just needed someone to confirm my thoughts.

Laptops in the £300-£350 range are all very similar spec wise with 2x USB 3 & 1x USB Type-C., Plus I can just get a port hub if I need extra.

Steve

[Seelive]

If, in the longer term you want to start using something like Sharpcap to control the camera, then they recommend you use at least an I5 processor, ie something more powerful than a Celeron.

[wimvb]

A cheaper alternative to a laptop is a raspberry pi with Ekos/Kstars. There are several commercial options available, based on this configuration:

stellarmate

atik base

asiair

or more diy, astroberry

Even if you decide to go for windows, these options are worth considering.

[smashing]

I bought a refurbished lenovo laptop from eBay for £180ish which is small, has an i5 processor and 256gb SSD which obviously runs everything I need and much more.

Processing images is done on a beefier laptop but that's another discussion entirely.

[nephilim]

1 hour ago, Seelive said:

If, in the longer term you want to start using something like Sharpcap to control the camera, then they recommend you use at least an I5 processor, ie something more powerful than a Celeron.

Thanks for the info, I'll be using NINA so I'll have to check whats recommended for that.

Edited October 26, 2020 by nephilim

[Budgie1]

Like @smashing I bought a refurbished Levono Thinkpad X240 with an i7 processor, 4GB of RAM and 500GB hard drive, installed with the a new & registered version of Windows 10 for £150. 

It runs SharpCap (for polar aligning only), APT, CdC & PHD2, all running through EQMOD with an EQDIR cable.

The only drawback is it only has 2x USB2 ports which makes the images from my DSLR a bit slow to transfer into APT, but I can live with that as I keep the images in the camera and download onto my main desktop PC for stacking & processing.

[ursamajorro]

A good laptop is essential for astrophotography. And you'll need a good one. Good (long lasting) battery, good (new and fast) processor, good (very fast) storage, good USB(3). Don't waste your money for a Celeron based laptop. Unfortunatelly, prices of laptops (at least in my country) have risen sharply since the pandemic and since the people work from home.

I had your dilema and in the end i choose a Lenovo with R5 4500U, 512 GB SSD (PCIx), 8 GB RAM, even if it cost me more than your specified budget. I would not buy ever a SH laptop. My 2 cents...

PS: please excuse my poor english.

[wimvb]

8 hours ago, nephilim said:

Hi, 
Im in the very early stages of building up an AP set up (I have the mount...........😃) After a failed attempt at this several ago years trying to save money wherever I could I realised a little too late that AP is not really a pastime that benefits from 'doing it on the cheap'. although I have seen that it can be done it will make it much much harder, as if it wasnt hard enough😬)
Obviously I would still like to save money where its possible & as the title suggests, just how important is the spec of the laptop used as the capture/ control hardware. I'm looking at a new, upto date laptop , Windows 10, USB 3.1 etc but just at the lower end of the market price wise.
The link ive posted is just a random one at around the price im looking at. All my image processing will be done on my desktop PC which is  high end. 
If something higher end is needed (I may be missing something but I cant see why) then i'll spend the extra £££ but if I can save a couple of hundred ££ then that money 'saved' can go towards things which I know are important  scope/ camera etc.
  https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/asus-e410ma-14-laptop-intel-celeron-128-gb-emmc-blue-10209188-pdt.html

Thanks
Steve

An Windows altetnative to a laptop would be a compute stick or a nuc. You can configure a nuc to your needs, and it has more usb ports than a laptop. Use microsoft rdp from your main computer to access the nuc. Just a thought.

[DaveS]

You don't actually need a laptop. I run my rigs remotely with a headless PC, and connect with Windows RDP. You do need to be running win 10 Pro on the remote PC. In my case I save the files to the big NAS drive in the office. When planning the remote installations I ran exterior grad ethernet cables to them from the 24 point switch in the office.

[Skipper Billy]

I did exactly what DaveS did and it works superbly and does not require expensive laptops out in the damp and cold. It works flawlessly.

If I need a screen at the mount for polar alignment etc I just use RDP from the laptop to the mount and take the laptop to the mount.

I use a NUC and it is just velcroed to a bracket on the scope. You don't need a rocket ship PC to run everything at the mount.

There are some photos here if it helps  https://www.davidbanksastro.com/equipment

 

[DaveS]

I will update this to say that having a basic keyboard, mouse, and monitor available can be more than useful having just broken Windows (And I'm not sure how) and having to do a clean install, losing all my installed software, which cannot be done over remote desktop.

[rnobleeddy]

Clearly there are differing opinions but I'd definitely vote for a Pi + astroberry if your kit is supported by INDI.

If not, a laptop with at least one USB3 port would be handy (then you can add a hub). If you're going to mainly use it to control kit then it won't matter what spec you use. I use sharpcap on a 5 year old surface pro with a potato for a processor and it works perfectly. If you're processing images then a more powerful CPU helps.

Be careful with advice like "get an i5" - those are just labels that Intel have used for many, many years now, and it's not intuitive to determine which CPU is better than another. Use https://www.cpubenchmark.net/ to compare different CPU models (looking at both single core and total performance).

[DaveS]

5 hours ago, DaveS said:

I will update this to say that having a basic keyboard, mouse, and monitor available can be more than useful having just broken Windows (And I'm not sure how) and having to do a clean install, losing all my installed software, which cannot be done over remote desktop.

And I've spent most of the time since my last post finding, downloading, and installing the software that was killed in the crash. Not finished yet, but will finish it tomorrow when it's light.

[nephilim]

Thanks for all the advice.
After a bit more research from all your answers, I think i'll up the budget to around £400/ £450 & get a low/mid range laptop. I cant operate remotely as half of my visual sessions (it'll be the same for my imaging sessions) are done away from home. I live in the Lake District (very close to the north Yorks border) & have access to very dark skies which are in the middle of nowhere, where as at home its around Bortle 5/6 (not a problem for narrowband). I'll stay clear of Celeron & probably opt for i3 (I have a very highly specced home desktop PC for image processing) Most modern laptops have 2x USB3 which i'll definitely be wanting plus, a decent storage capability will be a must.
I've spotted a couple in my 'new' price range that even have an m.2 SSD which would be nice as I have one in the home PC & they are lightening fast.
Thanks again
Steve

[nephilim]

7 minutes ago, DaveS said:

And I've spent most of the time since my last post finding, downloading, and installing the software that was killed in the crash. Not finished yet, but will finish it tomorrow when it's light.

Hope its sorted quickly mate, i'd forgotten just how much 'fun' 🙄 this hobby can be but it always draws me back in 😬

[wimvb]

3 hours ago, DaveS said:

And I've spent most of the time since my last post finding, downloading, and installing the software that was killed in the crash. Not finished yet, but will finish it tomorrow when it's light.

A bit off topic.

This is where raspberry pi based solutions have an advantage. They're so cheap that I actually have two identical computers. If one decides to kick the bucket, I can just swap it and be good to go in no time. And installing from scratch took me just a rainy afternoon last month, without the need for a keyboard/screen. The down side for most people is being unfamiliar with linux. It does have more of a learning curve than windows. As with anything else in this hobby, the proverbial cat gets skinned in more ways than one.

[gaz81]

Check out used ex corporate laptops if you want a laptop. 
 

They normal come with licensed Win 10 pro and spare parts a plenty as they are ment to be repaired etc. Ones like HP 820/840 etc can be got for couple of hundred easily enough.

I’ve just ordered an ex business Dell WYSE thin client quad core AMD for £40 off eBay (with full Win 10 pro) that I’m going to run my little set up off (bolted to the rig like a big Pi). Then remote into it with my laptop... iPad... even your phone if you want. Tried that last night with my iPad and laptop and was very cool (and warm)

 

Windows Pro is key if you want to do Remote Desktop. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by gaz81

[nephilim]

43 minutes ago, wimvb said:

A bit off topic.

This is where raspberry pi based solutions have an advantage. They're so cheap that I actually have two identical computers. If one decides to kick the bucket, I can just swap it and be good to go in no time. And installing from scratch took me just a rainy afternoon last month, without the need for a keyboard/screen. The down side for most people is being unfamiliar with linux. It does have more of a learning curve than windows. As with anything else in this hobby, the proverbial cat gets skinned in more ways than one.

I can certainly see the advantage of using Raspberry Pi, but ive absolutely no experience when it comes to its applications or how to use it, I also have no experience of Linux.
This will be my first serious attempt at AP & I think i'll have enough to learn to start with without adding further software/ hardware to the mix. It's something I'll be looking into once i've been up & running for a while.

[nephilim]

4 minutes ago, gaz81 said:

Check out used ex corporate laptops if you want a laptop. 
 

They normal come with licensed Win 10 pro and spare parts a plenty as they are ment to be repaired etc. Ones like HP 820/840 etc can be got for couple of hundred easily enough.

I’ve just ordered an ex business Dell WYSE thin client quad core AMD for £40 off eBay (with full Win 10 pro) that I’m going to run my little set up off (bolted to the rig like a big Pi). Then remote into it with my laptop... iPad... even your phone if you want. Tried that last night with my iPad and laptop and was very cool (and warm)

 

Windows Pro is key if you want to do Remote Desktop. 

Thats great mate, thanks for the info. Do you have a link to the website you used? I've no problem at all using a refurbished laptop if I can use a reputable company 🙂

[gaz81]

No link really, usually get my laptops off EBay.  I just make sure the seller is good. 
 

my laptop was a HP 820 G3 with a 1080p screen. I5 had 8gb ram at the time, think it was £200. That was a while ago now. 
 

You can usually spot the ex business laptops as they look a bit dull 🙂

[nephilim]

1 minute ago, gaz81 said:

No link really, usually get my laptops off EBay.  I just make sure the seller is good. 
 

my laptop was a HP 820 G3 with a 1080p screen. I5 had 8gb ram at the time, think it was £200. That was a while ago now. 
 

You can usually spot the ex business laptops as they look a bit dull 🙂

Cheers mate, i've just been looking online & there are a fair few suppliers & the savings are massive. I'll spend the next few days doing a bit of research now.

I never thought about going for a refurbished one, you've just saved me quite a bit of cash, very much appreciated 😃

ATB

Steve

[gaz81]

Glad I could help 🙂

[groberts]

FWIW I got a refurbished Lenovo Thinkpad 500G SSD (really good & fast) + 16GB RAM x 2USB2 & x2 USB3 ports + Windows 10 Pro for just over £400 recently from MicroDream, which has turned out very well for astrophotpgraphy control, capture etc. 

www.microdream.co.uk