10mm Delos or 9mm Nagler

[Stardaze]

Having already littered someone else's thread about my next EP purchase I thought I'd start one here. I did jump in early with a couple of EP purchases initially that I have since moved on and now have a clearer idea as to what I wish to add. Ultimately I'd rather buy to keep for many years to come.

Although I may well add a small Mak to the armoury next year now, I am thinking more about what I have now which is a 10" dob. I currently have:

APM 20 & 13 (100); Nirvana 16mm and ES 6.7 (82). The gap I want to plug is the 9mm area.

9mm seems to provide that nice in-between magnification of x137. At the moment I have 97x stepping up to 187x

I have been thinking that the 10mm Delos is the route, sacrificing some FOV. Only issue maybe that an 8mm might be needed further down the line, providing 97x (13) / 127x (10) / 158x (8) / 187 (6.7)

However, there is still the type 6 9mm Nagler, which I haven't looked atl. £30 cheaper; 10 degrees wider, but older design? That provides 141x? 

I'd like to think that in the medium-term I'll look at an APM 30 and maybe a better 6mm, possibly even an upgrade on the 16mm Nirvana, but the core 20/13/9ish/6 seems about right on a few of my own limited measures.

Any views and opinions welcome.

[Louis D]

I have the 10mm Delos and 9mm Morpheus, and there's not a whole lot to choose between them other than a wider field of view on the Morpheus.  I can't use the NT6s due to needing to wear eyeglasses to correct 2.0 diopters of astigmatism in my observing eye, so I can't give you any advice on them.

The APM UFF 30mm is really nice.  I highly recommend it.

[John]

I found the 10mm Pentax XW a touch better than the 9mm Nagler T6 when I compared them a few years back. I was a great fan of the T6 Naglers back then (had all of them, even the 2.5mm) and I was a little surprised that I found that I preferred the Pentax 10mm XW. The T6's are still lovely eyepieces though.

I mention this because of course the XW's and Delos are very, very similar in performance.

The Nagler has 12mm of eye relief vs the 20mm of the Delos and XW but I don't know if that is important to you.

I expect someone will mention the 9mm Morpheus as well in due course. Oh, he has already !

Anyway, that's my 1p's worth

 

 

[Stardaze]

Thanks gents. I should have said that I'm not a glasses wearer so 12mm over 20mm isn't a deal breaker for me.

How much extra is the FOV difference to you @Louis? A 9mm might negate two EP's later on, or could mean I'd round down with a 7mm and 5mm. I'd probably stick with whichever brand I plumb for with this purchase. 

I had thought about the Morpheus as it's the sensible option for the wallet, but I guess I do hanker after a TV 🙄

Probably the fact of the matter is that, none of them will disappoint.. 

I've noted that you really rate the 30 APM @Louis Deffo try one of those in the not-too-distant-future. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Stardaze

[Stardaze]

PS. for the gear tarts amongst us, must say that the Morpheus doesn't look the coolest kid on the block. But then I'll over look this aspect as they'll primarily be used in the dark..😂

Edited July 27, 2020 by Stardaze

[JeremyS]

12 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

PS. for the gear tarts amongst us, must say that the Morpheus doesn't look the coolest kid on the block. But then I'll over look this aspect as they'll primarily be used in the dark..😂

I'm not sure I possess the same degree of magnanimity as you!

 😂

[Jarvo]

17 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

PS. for the gear tarts amongst us, must say that the Morpheus doesn't look the coolest kid on the block. But then I'll over look this aspect as they'll primarily be used in the dark..😂

Gear tarts 😂

[John]

I think looks are the very least of my concerns when choosing an eyepiece.

 

[Stardaze]

36 minutes ago, John said:

I think looks are the very least of my concerns when choosing an eyepiece.

 

That’s easy to say when you have pockets as deep as yours John 🤣 

You’re not wrong, of course..

[Highburymark]

I’ve owned the 10mm Delos and I still have a T6 Nagler 11mm. The Delos is slightly sharper, brighter and has a cleaner view. Much larger eye lens, adjustable to get eye relief bang on. It’s just a beautiful eyepiece, and I would still have it if I hadn’t moved to a lighter set up. 
By comparison the Nagler is completely different ergonomically and optically - small lens, tighter eye relief, half the size, and marginally warmer tones. I struggle to make full use of that huge fov too, when it requires the eye to be so close to the lens.
I still love it, and use it all the time as my only mid-power widefield EP, but I accept that it’s not quite in the same league as some other ranges, particularly at the heavy (new) price of over £300. £50+ more than an XW 10mm or Delite or Morpheus 9mm.....?

[Stardaze]

14 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

I’ve owned the 10mm Delos and I still have a T6 Nagler 11mm. The Delos is slightly sharper, brighter and has a cleaner view. Much larger eye lens, adjustable to get eye relief bang on. It’s just a beautiful eyepiece, and I would still have it if I hadn’t moved to a lighter set up. 
By comparison the Nagler is completely different ergonomically and optically - small lens, tighter eye relief, half the size, and marginally warmer tones. I struggle to make full use of that huge fov too, when it requires the eye to be so close to the lens.
I still love it, and use it all the time as my only mid-power widefield EP, but I accept that it’s not quite in the same league as some other ranges, particularly at the heavy (new) price of over £300. £50+ more than an XW 10mm or Delite or Morpheus 9mm.....?

If you were buying now Mark, what would you lean towards?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Stardaze

[Stardaze]

I was going to maybe see what comes up secondhand over the next 8 weeks. I haven’t seen many of the options come up recently, which says something.

[Alan White]

I have never thought of Mark as mean 😂 but he might lean at an angle

[Highburymark]

I’ve largely gone for Delites now, as I prefer lighter eyepieces and don’t need wider fovs. The view through a Delite is indistinguishable from a Delos, bar the fov. If I was buying again and wanted 70 degree + a fov (and weight was not an issue), I’d go for Delos or XW 10mm. And if price was a major factor, then probably the XW.

[Stardaze]

7 minutes ago, Alan White said:

I have never thought of Mark as mean 😂 but he might lean at an angle

Damn predictive 😊

[Dippy]

30 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

That’s easy to say when you have pockets as deep as yours John 🤣 

You’re not wrong, of course..

From what I have read from John here in SGL and elsewhere since 2006, he is neither  rich nor has deep pockets. To my observation, John has what he has through a steep learning curve, starting with some mundane eyepieces and gradually over decades of learning and selling or exchanging his eyepieces he has came to a core selection of Pentax XW, Delos and Ethos eyepieces, plus a Panoptic 24 and Nagler 31 Type 5. He just saves his money, sells what he has or exchange them and gets what is the best.  I know this because once he kindly contacted me for selling one of his eyepieces to fund buying another one. John has shared  his knowledge  generously with everybody including myself and helped me make my mind about what worth saving for. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Dippy

[Highburymark]

I’m certainly lean. 6ft 5” and 12 1/2 stone. During my formative years I was known as the ‘hatstand’

[Barry-W-Fenner]

1 hour ago, Stardaze said:

PS. for the gear tarts amongst us, must say that the Morpheus doesn't look the coolest kid on the block. But then I'll over look this aspect as they'll primarily be used in the dark..😂

From a looks perspective I actually think the Baader Morpheus is real smart looking.  Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.

I have one coming which will hopefully arrive tomorrow. I'm looking forward to testing it out and looking through the 37mm lense to take in the immersive views! 😀 Hopefully it performs aswell as the reviews say!

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Barry-W-Fenner

[Stardaze]

8 minutes ago, Dippy said:

From what I have read from John here in SGL and elsewhere since 2006, he is neither  rich nor has deep pockets. To my observation, John has what he has through a steep learning curve, starting with some mundane eyepieces and gradually over decades of learning and selling or exchanging his eyepieces he has came to a core selection of Pentax XW, Delos and Ethos eyepieces, plus a Panoptic 24 and Nagler 31 Type 5. He just saves his money, sells what he has or exchange them and gets what is the best.  I know this because once he kindly contacted me for selling one of his eyepieces to fund buying another one. John has shared  his knowledge  generously with everybody including myself and helped me make my mind about what worth saving for. 

It’s all meant in jest, I thought that came over in the manner it was meant 😉

[John]

No problem as far as I'm concerned

I do have too much kit, I know that

I blame Steve at FLO for "turning my head" towards Pentax XW's - he loaned me the 10mm !

Such a good choice of eyepieces around these days - you probably can't go wrong

 

[Stardaze]

7 minutes ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

From a looks perspective I actually think the Baader Morpheus is real smart looking.  Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.

I have one coming which will hopefully arrive tomorrow. I'm looking forward to testing it out and looking through the 37mm lense to take in the immersive views! 😀 Hopefully it performs aswell as the reviews say!

 

I’m really not too fussed about the aesthetics Barry, as long as they deliver where needed.

The Morpheus is a serious contender. I do like the overall specification and look of the front element, suggests they would give an immersive experience. I’ve probably read a couple of comments recently about the edges and field stops not being perfect, but I’m sure I could live with those. As I’ve said,  I’d like to see how much of an improvement a TV delivers. I’m sure it’s marginal, but I am curious.

[Don Pensack]

16mm / 1.4 = 10mm.

10mm / 1.4 = 7mm

It looks like 10mm is the better choice for an in between focal length, though a (non-existent) 9.5mm would be OK too.

The 10mm Delos is a fantastic eyepiece.  Here is a review of top 10mm eyepieces:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130829052725/http://www.cieletespace.fr:80/files/InstrumentTest/201306__6_oculaires_10mm.pdf

Edited July 27, 2020 by Don Pensack

[Stardaze]

17 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

16mm / 1.4 = 10mm.

10mm / 1.4 = 7mm

It looks like 10mm is the better choice for an in between focal length, though a (non-existent) 9.5mm would be OK too.

The 10mm Delos is a fantastic eyepiece.  Here is a review of top 10mm eyepieces:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130829052725/http://www.cieletespace.fr:80/files/InstrumentTest/201306__6_oculaires_10mm.pdf

Thanks Don. Apologies up front, but what’s the of 1.4 decipher?

[John]

40 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

..The 10mm Delos is a fantastic eyepiece.  Here is a review of top 10mm eyepieces:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130829052725/http://www.cieletespace.fr:80/files/InstrumentTest/201306__6_oculaires_10mm.pdf

We would all benefit from more reviews that are as comprehesive as that

[Ricochet]

33 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

Thanks Don. Apologies up front, but what’s the of 1.4 decipher?

It's the square root of two (ish). Using that spacing between eyepiece focal lengths results in a doubling or halving of image brightness (for extended objects), which is equivalent to one step in brightness as far as the human eye is concerned. For DSOs I think it is the ideal spacing. At high powers you may need tighter spacing so that you can match your magnification to that supported on a particular session (e.g. for planetary observation).